JohnC

Mel Kiper took a lot of heat for maintaining that Allen was one of the top qbs in this class and was seriously being considered to be the first player taken in this draft by Cleveland. Allen wasn't the first pick but he was seriously considered by Cleveland, the Jets, Arizona and Buffalo to be their pick for qb. There are more than enough fair criticisms for the iconic draftnick. But his early opinion on Allen proved to be right. There are no guarantees for success when evaluating qbs. So I'm not jumping to any conclusions how good Allen is going to be. My point is that while so many people were skeptical in their assessment on Allen, Kiper's early assessment in the player turned out to be the prevailing view by the teams participating in the draft.

What's reality is that all the teams that were vigorously in pursuit of a qb had Josh Allen high on their board. The Cardinals who drafted Rosen tried to move up and get Josh Allen before we did. They didn't have the ammo to compete with our offer for the right to draft Allen. The notion that is being peddled by many that Allen as a qb prospect is "fools gold" is undercut by the reality that many teams near the top of the board seriously considered him. Especially with qbs there are no guarantees for success. But his chances for success are just as good as any of the other elite prospects.

In general, I agree with the tenor of your comment. The McBeane regime was pretty transparent since taking over that they were going to accumulate chips and use them to get a high end prospect. Right from the start they made a non-disguised declaration that the priority entering the draft was to be in a position to get a premium qb prospect. And if it required the trading of picks to accomplish their priority they were willing to do that. That' exactly what they did. The portion where I disagree with you is that I don't consider Josh Allen a boom or bust prospect. If he doesn't rise to being a very good franchise qb that doesn't mean that he won't be a good franchise qb. What's telling to me about his prospects is that he was high on all the teams' boards who were in a focused pursuit to get a qb. The team that selected Rosen tried to outbid us not to get Rosen but to get Allen. What I'm stressing is that he is far from being a boom or bust prospect. In my opinion over time at the minimum he should develop into a capable starting qb. For those who are agreeing with you that they are happy that the Bills acted boldly instead of conservatively when they selected Allen that's what this pick represents. By selecting Allen and bypassing the more polished Rosen and safer pick they acted with a calculated boldness that seems to appeal to you.

The Bills got the qb that they wanted the most. That was the draft strategy for more than a year. The Bills had a plan to accumulate picks and then use them for the best qb that they could get. The price wasn't cheap but it wasn't exorbitant. We gave up two second round picks and retained the extra first round pick that we gained in a deal with KC last year. One of the two second round picks was an extra pick that was gotten from the Watkins deal to LA. So one way of looking at this deal is that we gave up an original second round pick for a potential franchise qb. Anyone can look back at any draft after the fact and declare we could have and should have done such and such. The reality is that the Bills were worried that another team was attempting to move up and take our preferred qb. And they were right! The Bills factored in the possibility of such a contingency and they smartly responded on real time. Arizona was targeting the qb that we wanted. They settled for their next best option and we got our preferred option. What's is there to complain about? If you preferred another qb then so be it. The Bills went into this draft with a desired outcome, and when it was concluded they accomplished what they set up to accomplish. If you consider that as a failure then you must be standing on your head and have an upside/down notion of what success is.

There were reports that the Cardinals tried to make a deal to jump up ahead of Buffalo to select Allen. They lacked the ammo to do so. They then moved up to select Rosen. If you are asking the question whether the Bills would have selected Darnold over Allen I am not sure. What is obvious is that the Bills were targeting Allen as one of their two top qb prospects. What is also apparent is that all the qb needy teams had Allen ranked in the top group with both Cleveland and the Jets seriously considering him up to the end as the qb of their choice. People can have different opinions on Allen. But what can't be disputed is that there is a overwhelming consensus by the evaluators in the business that he was not only a highly regarded prospect but also for the most part ranked near the top of this class.

If you bring the snacks you will be exempt from putting a token in the fare box. If you bring the beer we will have a rest room at the back of the bus to service you. If you are corpulent you will have a tight squeeze to do your business in there.

I don't understand your antipathy towards Allen. Almost everyone who is serious in the business and talks about Allen says that he is a player with impressive tools but clearly a work in progress type prospect. And what is telling is that all the teams who were desperately searching for a franchise qb and dedicated an extraordinary amount of resources and time into that endeavor had Allen near the top of their qb board. The Browns and the Jets up to the end of the evaluation process had him near the top of their board. It was reported that the Cardinals were vying with the Bills to move up to get Allen, not Rosen. Their next best option was Rosen. There is no doubt that Jordan Palmer has a vested interest in Josh Allen because he worked with him. But that doesn't change the fact that when he glowingly extols the virtue of one of his students he is repeating the same high evaluation that a lot of people who have no vested interest in the qb. The more I hear about Josh Allen the more comfortable I am with the pick. I'm on the same bus that Bandit is driving.

Terrific post and thoughtful points. In general the evaluation of Allen by people associated with the business represents a consensus that he should be ranked with the upper tier. (As you noted.) There were teams that were for a long time seriously considering to be their first choice at qb. It was reported last night when Arizona moved up the board to draft Rosen that they attempted to move up the board to get Allen but didn't have the ammo to compete with our offer. So why are people so queasy about our selection? I think part of the reason is our EJ experience where a flaw related to accuracy was a fatal flaw. The Losman experience also has contributed to this same repeated sensation that we have about the concern for accuracy. For Bills fan there is a cumulative fear based on prior experience. I favored Rosen over Allen but wasn't as fearful of an Allen selection as much as others. (Bandito had a calming effect on me. ) I also understand why McBeane find Allen to be a better fit for the Bills than Rosen was. Was too much emphasis placed on being a fit rather than talent? Maybe for the other positions but it is certainly a critical issue when selecting your qb. The bottom line is I'm comfortable with the pick and I'm excited with the pick. But that doesn't mean that I don't have reservations about it. Only time will tell.

I don't want to belabor the point but the source of the problem due to the ridiculous situation that Marrone inherited was the GM. It was like he emptied his pockets to place a bet on a lame horse. He took his family's bread and rent money and put it on a limping nag. Getting the retired Kyle Orton was an act of desperation. We were in a state of desperation because we didn't even have a mediocre backup to stem the tide from an impending and predictably calamity. You can mock the resorting to a virtually retired qb who gladly pocketed his last glorious paycheck but he was a better option than EJ. How stupendously stupid was it to allow yourself to be in that situation? It was hideous malfeasance/nonfeasance. That was the situation that Whaley put Marrone and the franchise in. Marrone responded by essentially telling Whaley that he wasn't going to supinely be his fall guy. Marrone may have been unprofessional and combative towards Whaley but from a issue standpoint he was right. People can get blinded by all the beautiful verbosity about process and organizational structure etc. Those issues are important to an extent. But the bottom line is talent. In a talent based industry if you don't have it you can't fake it. When you have a franchise that hasn't had a franchise qb in nearly a quarter century and you have a GM who doesn't exhibit any urgency to address the most important issue to the point that it becomes a neurosis then don't point the blame at the person who is left holding the bag. If you want to distribute blame place it at the doorstep of the person who gave the proverbial bag to him.

I'm sorry to say that I again respectfully disagree with your take that Marrone was the one who benefited from the EJ benching. It was the right decision because it was based on not only the immediate performance but it was the right decision as a long-term decision. Delaying on making a conclusive decision on EJ wasn't going to help the organization; it was going to further set back the organization. It is easy to say that Marrone is not a very sympathetic person. However, even vile people can be harshly right. For me there is no disputing the fact that Marrone was right on the EJ issue and Whaley was wrong. It became a fatal decision that contributed to and expedited his departure from the organization.

In the end the result was going to be the same. There is only one cold blooded principle that is followed in this brutal business: Are you good enough. He wasn't. The same line of reasoning applied to Taylor i.e. he wasn't good enough. People had a tendency to make the sentimental argument that he wasn't treated fairly. Ultimately, whether he was treated fairly or not is immaterial because the outcome was going to be the same. It may be harsh but it is the reality.

I respectfully but strenuously disagree with your view as to how EJ was treated. If you want to make the argument that EJ wasn't ready to play and was thrown to the wolves that is a reasonable argument to make. But the reality is that Marrone and his staff recognized very early on that EJ was not then good enough and would never be good enough. It wasn't what they say in the games that scared them off as much as what they say in practice that made them quickly come to the conclusion that he was never going to be a starter in this league. Marrone was a prickly character and very unlikable. While Whaley wanted to stick with the EJ experiment Marrone was adamant that he was right in his assessment in the player. Marrone quickly came to the judgment that GM made a mistake with the selection of EJ and that it was not a correctable mistake. In my mind the dour coach was right. I also reluctantly disagree with you on when Allen will get playing time. There is too much invested in the selection of Allen to risk screwing up his development. I'm confident that he not only was one of the qbs that this regime targeted early but also that they put together a plan on how to bring him along. It's my opinion that the coaching staff is going to error on the side of being cautious before putting him on the field. KC's approach to Mahome in his rookie year is the model that I think will be followed.

For those who are skeptical of Allen it has to be acknowledged that most analysts had him highly ranked. Most of the evaluators had him in the top four grouping. When he was selected by Buffalo it was noted on the NFL Network that the Cardinals were also trying to move up to get him. The Bills won out because the Cardinals didn't have the assets to compete with us to get him. The Cardinals did move up somewhat and then took their next rated qb in Josh Rosen. The Bills had a plan right when this new regime was installed to get their future franchise qb in this draft. They have made a number of moves to accomplish their stated goal of securing a qb. They got it done; I'm happy with what has transpired.

Buffalo is no different from most places. It doesn't take long for a boo to turn into a cheer and a cheer to turn into a boo. That's the nature of the business.

The fans don't run a qb out of town. The coaches do. They see the young player on the practice field and in the class room. Even if a qb is raw and needs plenty of time to be ready before allowed to take the snaps they can early on get a sense if the player has what it takes. EJ was a first round pick. But it didn't take Marrone too long to determine that EJ not only didn't have it then but more importantly would never have it. With the exception of bad behavior the fans have little influence with the decisions that the staff makes regarding players.

The person who made the Rex hire was Pegula, the person who paid more than a billion $$$$ for his team. The person who made the McDermott hire was the same person who paid over a billion $$$ for the team. Pegula who was new to the business and to the sport was impressed in an interview by a hustling and charming HC who talked a good game. Instead of doing his own due diligence and seeking input from more sources inside and outside of the building the owner acted on his impulses. It was a horrendous mistake for this novice owner. It was an owner bad judgment who thought that he could instantly give credibility to a lackluster franchise with this outsized personality. The Bills are still climbing out from that mistake that set this franchise back by years. Brandon gets blamed for a lot of things that he had little to do with. On the other side of the coin he doesn't get credit for some of the good things that he does within the scope of his responsibility on the business side of the operation. A lot of people want to blame him for the football operation when in reality he has little to do with that side of the franchise. The truth of the matter is that Brandon is well respected in the business. If he left the Bills there would be bidders for his service. Pegula/s have so much regard for him that they put him in charge of their sports empire that includes the Sabres. In my view he is too often maligned for things he doesn't do and not given enough credit for things he has done.

Because of your kind words I'm going to give you an inside scoop on whom the Browns are going to take with their first pick. I let Blokes in on the scoop so you are not the first to be informed. Don't be surprised if the Browns take Mayfield with either their first pick. Scot McCloughan (sic) is scouting for them on a contractual basis. His favorite qb in this draft is Mayfield. He certainly doesn't have the authority to make the selection but he is the qb that he is promoting.

Did you get even by peeing in his gas tank?

I thought you had for perpetuity dispatched me to the pooped filled dog house for my views on Taylor. It's obvious that Jesuit educated people are forgivers. Or just maybe they are biding their time to unmercifully lash out when it is not expected?

Bloke, You are terrific and your insights are not only sound but also clearly and concisely expressed. However, I want to give you a warning that a rumor has been circulating that bandito is on the war path because of some of your scathing commentary about Josh Allen, his adoptive boy. He, like you, is a fine fellow but he has a combative nature to him that doesn't allow harsh challenges to go unanswered. So this is a warning to be cautious and stay alert. I'm going to let you in on an inside tip. The rumor about Mayfield being Cleveland's qb pick has some substance behind it. Scot McCloughan (sic) formerly the GM for the Redskins before being unceremoniously dumped for imbibing is working on a contractual basis for the Browns. His favorite qb for quite awhile is Mayfield. P.S. When your sh****t isn't together it is still together, relatively speaking.

I'm not as afraid of Allen as many are. But when he is compared to Rosen I just don't see why he would be favored over the best passer and pro ready qb in this class. It's befuddling. Sometimes the valley of darkness can quickly change into the valley of light. We shall see.

Bandit will be in contact with you very shortly. He will be extolling the virtues of Allen in order to relieve some of your anxieties. His message to you is to be brave and not fearful. I'm confident that the Bandito will not let you down.

I agree with your sentiment but I'm confident that the Bills are going to come out of this draft with a high end prospect. The next basis for a discussion will include twenty threads how the Bills over-spent to get their future qb. I don't want to antagonize you but there will be a lot of good DBs going in the first and second rounds in this draft. I have given up trying to convince you on the importance and value of having good DBs in this passing league. On that issue you are mulishly stubborn beyond the ability of being retrieved. I'm counting on the Bills moving up to draft either Josh Allen or Rosen. If I had a bet I think they are leaning toward Allen although I prefer Rosen. I'll be happy either way. You failed to see what the real issue is. It's not whether Rudolph will be good it is whether the qb you choose will be better.

These extended draft discussions have simply left me gassed. There is nothing left in the tank but putrid air. I want it to be over.