JohnC

When Jim Kelly entered the league he was not known for his humility and his non-combative personality. His teammates can tell you that and the people he interacted with in the bars can also tell you that. He eventually grew up. Regardless how unlikeable you think Rosen is no one can claim that he didn't work hard at the game. Rosen is certainly not a warm and fuzzy guy. I'm sure he would even admit to that. No question he has a challenging personality. Some franchises don't want to deal with it and others are willing to do. It's not an issue of right or wrong as it is an issue of choice. Buffalo wasn't one of the organizations willing to handle it while Arizona was.

I don't want to get carried away and extend the analogy to the political realm but in the world of today and the world of culture wars there is a faction that is more comfortable with being around "their kind" and there is a faction who are comfortable with the changing world and being around the "others". Some people like white sheets and some people like quilts. As I said before I consider McDermott to be a good coach. But my sense is that he has an old school mentality that isn't receptive to non-believers. (Not talking religion but talking about what he is espousing.) You are either all in with him or you are not. Those who frequently ask why don't fit his profile. To carry out the analogy Pete Carroll's tent is much bigger and rowdier than the wrestling coach's smaller and more orderly tent.

It's a delicate issue to discuss but I believe that Rosen's personality and background was a significant factor as to why the wrestling coach wasn't comfortable having him in his locker room or believed he was a good fit for the region. I'm not suggesting that Rosen is a bad guy because I don't believe him to be. But I do believe that Rosen is a much more complicated and challenging person to deal with. I think highly of McDermott as a coach. But there is a simplicity and single-mindedness to his approach and to roster building that would have made it difficult for McDermott to adapt to Rosen and Rosen to adapt to McCermott. Odds are that Allen was the right selection for Buffalo and Arizona was the right landing spot for Arizona.

You can have a third round grade on a player and that player can turn into a first round performer. It happens all the time. What you are seeing is what you are grading on. That's how it usually works. It' difficult to make projections. With Allen in contrast to Rosen you are projecting what you are believe he is capable of while with Rosen it is more about what he currently is and projecting that to the pro ranks. Based on his college career there is no question that Allen is the riskier pick when compared to Rosen. But because of the multi-faceted and complex nature of the position that is undergirded by issues relating to leadership the qb evaluation becomes much more difficult. What is sometimes lost in the discussion in comparing prospects is that you are not always comparing apples to apples. The determining factor is very often the situation the prospect is going to. What would be a good situation for one qb might be a disastrous situation for another qb. I have said it on prior posts that I believe all the top tier prospects in this class will be successful. And I believe that Allen with the right support system and with intelligent handling will turn out to be in the long run the right selection for us.

Josh Rosen is not a qb that all teams would be comfortable drafting. I just think that he has been unfairly stigmatized because he comes from a wealthy and accomplish family and because he himself is very intelligent with regards to football and also outside interests. I belatedly attached a link in my first post and I'm including it in this post to add more clarity to my position on him. https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/05/03/josh-rosen-arizona-cardinals-draft-mmqb-albert-breer

You are portraying him as a player who is so toxic that teams avoided him like the plague. That belies the fact that he was drafted in the top ten and by a team that moved up to get him. It's apparent that he doesn't have a warm and congenial personality. So what? Whatever criticisms he has attracted none of them relate to how hard he works and how advanced he is as a qb All four qbs in the top tier had issues. Although all the top qbs in this draft were highly rated every one of them had various flaws that were factored in by the teams selecting qbs. My feeling toward this group is that each of them, different as they may be, will be successful. The below link highlights the fact that Rosen is a more complicated personality than most college players. https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/05/03/josh-rosen-arizona-cardinals-draft-mmqb-albert-breer

The same is true for any old QB.

Is it true you were doing promos for beer money?

That's the point. Those who needed to know knew what was part of the package. Due diligence was applied and then a reasonable judgment was made.

There is nothing to be sad about. Because of the nature of the position associated with leadership and interacting with the players the person's personality and ability to relate to others is part of the evaluation process. If he was a CB, LB, OL, DL or receiver the personality quirks/traits wouldn't be much of a factor. I consider Rosen to be a terrific talent. He is the most polished and prepared qb in this draft class. Going to Arizona was the best situation for him to go to considering the options. As I stated in a prior post I believe that all of the top tier qbs in this draft class will succeed. Much of that success is predicated on being in the right situation. I believe that Arizona is a good situation for him.

Gunner, What's the big surprise? It's easy to understand why this regime didn't feel that Rosen was a fit for the type of locker room and roster it was building. I'm not saying this as a criticism of Rosen. He has a distinct personality that many people don't find embracing. It would be utterly foolish to try to construct an environment and then have your leader be discordant to what you are trying to do. When you bring in a qb such as Cutler to the roster you get the Cutler package. The dumbest approach to take is to bring in a player with a Cutler personality (not suggesting Rosen is like Cutler but using as an example) with the intention of having him adjust to what you want him. You are creating a predictable conflict and fiasco. The best thing that happened to Rosen was that he was drafted by Arizona, and not Buffalo or Cleveland. It is simply a better fit not only in the locker room but also from a regional fan base. Trent Dilfer who knows Rosen well and has worked with him since his high school days has stated that Rosen is a special person and player. He stressed the point that the team that takes him on has to be willing to adjust to his unique personality and demanding personality. McDermott has a grasp of what he wants to build and the profile of a player he wants in his room. The coach was smart enough to realize that he wouldn't be comfortable with Rosen in his room and Rosen wouldn't be comfortable being in the room. The best way to deal with a problem is avoid it.

Kirby may be having a tough period but Patrick Beverly's mom is having stupendous day. http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2773919-patrick-beverleys-mom-has-epic-price-is-right-win-clippers-sg-reacts?utm_source=cnn.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=editorial

You and I are in accord on our takes on this issue. I'll go beyond your take on how to treat people at the workplace. It's not about the work place setting-----it's about life. If you treat people with kindness and generosity, like you would want to be treated and how you would like one of your family members to be treated, you will get exponential returns from your behavior. The person Kirby is describing is about money and status. When you go out of your way to stab a coworker, either directly or indirectly, it will come back to you. The way Kirby is being treated is being observed by others. By those above and below his rank. My advice to Kirby is to make whatever reasonable accommodation that needs to be made to settle the situation down. And then go out and be happy and love. That's how you beat the bastards. Miserable people are miserable. The less you engage with that toxic personality the better off you will be. Life is about handling and adjusting to unappealing people and situations.

Kirby, Augie has a very mature approach to your issue. I agree with it but have a slightly different take on it. I would go to fellow and tell him when he has the time you would like to over coffee have a discussion with him. If he is willing I would start off and tell him how much you respect him and understand the hard work he has put in to be so successful in the company. Showing respect is a good softening agent. I would explain to him your reasoning for why you took your stance. And if he didn't believe that your position was supportable offer to share the commission with him. I get the sense that this fellow believes he is more entitled than you because he has been with the company longer and has attained a higher position. In his mind the youngster not only outhustled the master but that he was disrespected in front of others when the issue was taken to the other office. Clearly this situation has rattled and angered him to the extent that he isn't going to easily let it go. Losing out of the money isn't as big as in his mind being outhustled by the youngster. Kirby, I've seen the type. He's not going to forget. When deciding what to do don't look at the situation as a win or losing situation. Very often in the complicated world of the workplace a tactical retreat can be a strategic win in the long run. If out of principle you try to headstrong the issue in the end you will lose to the more muscular individual who can make your life miserable. It's not worth it.

With respect to the football side of the operation I don't know what he has said over the past few years that has been meaningful or wrong. There is a notion that has been promoted by many that he has been influential on the football operation. I just don't see it; and I don't understand why he has been so vilified. There was a period of time at the last stages of the Ralph ownership where he was more visible. That visibility was forced on him because of the circumstances of the owner's waning health. While others criticize him for being more prominent I give him a lot of credit for keeping things together while the operation was in a holding pattern because of the owner's health status. My interpretation of the situation with respect to Brandon is different from most. I give him credit for holding things together while many people see his conduct as being more sinister. I'm thankful he was there and appreciative for his efforts in a very challenging time. Many others see it differently with more jaundiced eyes.

The uttering of those words associated with Brandon in the hiring of Rex are given more weight than they deserve. The owner was foolishly captivated by Rex. The owner wanted to give a boring and colorless franchise some identity. It was a dumb decision by a new owner who was out of his depth. If you recall you were also enthused with the hire. (I'm not criticizing you because many people were excited with the hire.) As you noted Pegula was new to the business. And it was demonstrated by his hiring decisions. On the positive side it appears that he has learned from his mistakes. But as the McDermott hire also illustrates is that it is the owner who makes the big hires based on what he wants to do and not because of the people who are at his side.

I have a high regard for Dilfer and his evaluations. But I'm not getting carried away. The qb he was most glowing about was Rosen. If the Bills would have drafted any of the top four qbs in this draft I would have been ecstatic. I think all of them will become legitimate franchise qbs, assuming that they are handled smartly. That point about smartly handling qbs was emphasized by Dilfer. He harshly pointed out that there are plenty of stupid coaches in the ranks that are incapable of developing qbs.

Brandon didn't make the Rex hire---the owner did. The same owner who made the McDermott hire. Did Brandon go along with it and make some fawning comments associated with the hire? Yes he did. So what? He was the subordinate who had no authority in the selection. There is a demonization of Brandon that is way out of proportion to his influence in the football operation. Russ Brandon is very influential in the business side of the operation. And he is good at what he does. He has not been involved in the football operation for years. And when he was involved it was because the owner with failing health thrust those responsibilities on him. The Bills have been bad for a long time because of a lot of bad decisions by their owners. Russ Brandon is not the bogeyman that many are making him out to be.

What I find encouraging is that at the end of the draft process that was noted for its intense scrutiny all the teams vying for a qb all had the same qbs grouped in the upper tier. It's evident that each team had different rankings but every team also had Allen under serious consideration to be their top pick. This wasn't an out of the box selection. This was a qb that was specifically targeted by this regime. They know the offense they want to run and he very well fits into what they want to do. Kudos to Bandit. He was ahead of us driving the bus before we got to the bus stop. He is astute and perspicacious.

716, Excellent recap of the draft and value picks. You are kind and generous. You would be the kind of teacher whose class everyone would want to get into because of your generosity in grading. Where I disagree with you is the "boom or bust" categorizing of Allen. It's easy to see where there is the potential for big upside. But even if he doesn't attain that potential that doesn't mean that he won't be a credible starting qb in this league. He has shown improvement in some aspects of his game related to mechanics. And it is widely reported that he has the work ethic to work on his deficiencies. I just see that the floor for him is higher than what many others are projecting. In my mind he is not going to be a precision and rhythm passer in a west coast offense like Rosen will be. But I do see him fitting in very well in a system that emphasizes downfield and play action passing. I don't want to get carried away but I envision a Roethlisberger style of play that is the most suitable for him.

In the cap era when you make an extravaganza deal and it doesn't work out you then place your team in a very difficult situation with little maneuvering ability. The O'Reilly and Okposa deals didn't come close to matching what they were paid to how much they have produced. Those two players have to elevate their games. At the end of the season last year Okposo started to play well. He claims he was handicapped this past season because he couldn't prepare in the offseason because he was healing from other health issues. O'Reilly is a second line center whose spirit seems to have been crushed because of the accumulated losses. What is discouraging is that the tough talking former GM heavily invested in two players who represented the old NHLof grind it out style of play rather than the new era NHL that emphasizes speed and north/south skating. The model and team that should have been copied is New Jersey. They transitioned from a Lou M. troglodyte trapping team to a younger and faster team that fits in with the modern NHL. The acquisition of players such as Taylor Hall instead of us going after slower players such as O'Reilly and Okposa would have been a better approach to take. Another team that the Sabres should attempt to copy is Toronto. No question that accumulating young players energized and catapulted that franchise. But what is forgotten is that Toronto was able to make some smart strategic deals of shedding some big contracts and giving the team flexibility to rework the roster. That's not an easy thing to do.

There is no straw man. We disagree on Bettman and what he has done for hockey in Buffalo. It's as simple as that. Your version and perception of the history during the franchise's troubled times is different from mine. On this issue our paths won't cross. It's no big deal.

Your reasoning behind the importance of the OL is inextricably linked with the success of Josh Allen. I don't envision him as a prolific west coast passer like Goff or a Rosen type qb. I see him more of a Ben Roethlisberger type qb who throws the ball downfield but relies on a running game to promote the more play action type throws. There is still so much more to be done to enhance the roster before the Bills become a serious team. Upgrading OL and improving the receiver corps are still needs on our shopping list. I would have also liked to see another running back added to the mix but you can't do everything at one time. What makes me optimistic is that when you compare the Whaley mismatch philosophy to roster building to the more thoughtful and coherent approach that McBeane has exhibited during their short stint you have to be excited about the future.

If you believe that the Buffalo market is in the same strata as NY, Boston, Philly, Chicago, Detroit, Montreal etc. then believe it. If you want to boo Bettman then go ahead and make yourself happy. For the reasons I have already stated I'm appreciative for what he has done for this franchise. At times I might be critical of him but because of his determined efforts to save the franchise I will never boo him.

I agree with you that Connor Williams would be a plug and play type player. The Bills certainly could have used a top shelf lineman like him to bolster an at best average OL. But there were other priorities. Getting a legitimate franchise qb prospect was certainly more important than getting a stud lineman. And with our second pick that was a made in the first round who can complain about the selection of Edmunds who also filled a critical need. When this new regime took over it did so with the intention of rebuilding a mismatched roster. I believe that it will take nearly four years to rework the roster that was inherited. (I'm not going to exaggerate my evaluation of the roster because of our luck in making the playoffs last year.) I get the sense that the McBeane brain trust has a blueprint on what needs to be done, and it is steadily adding the bricks to get it done. There is no debate that getting the qb was the most important task in building a foundation for more sustained success. Even more important than getting a stud lineman.