The Big Cat
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Posts posted by The Big Cat
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Depends on what you mean by problem.
Do I think he should be, in any way, loyal to this team? I wouldn't. Let's pretend we are talking about our work for a second here. If I was jerked around by my company, had 5 bosses at the same time, and new ones every time I turn around, etc.? Would anybody stay unless they had to? How is anybody supposed to "buy in" to that?
Do I think he should harbor any resentment towards us or the FO? No way. I didn't work out, it's is simple as that. We aren't going to care in a year anyway, so why should he?
Do I think we are in trouble if he goes to Miami or New Jersey and tells them our playbook? Well, let's worry about that playbook being any good first, or even around next year. Then, let's worry about if he is able to retain any of it. I'm serious, somehow I don't see JP as being able to retain much of anything if not exposed to it daily. And finally, let's take comfort in that fact that if anything, he'll probably goof it up and throw them off.
Do I think that he will be a great player on those teams? It's certainly possible, especially in Miami. Bill Parcells is known for what I call Frankenstein Football. He doesn't want his players to think and/or improvise, he wants them to execute within his system. If JP can do what he is told and think what he is told, when his is told, then he certainly has the physical ability to do the rest. If he is handing the ball off 40 times a game, and throwing out routes to TEs/RBs and the occasional 20 yard pass down field, I can see him doing fine. Parcells is known for boring offensive football and great defense, and wailing on QBs who dare grab any of his spotlight. Perfect place for JP to be in that sense. He does what he's told, no thinking, and he gets rewarded for making Bill look good.
Somehow I don't see JP doing fine with the Jets/Patriots offensive system. I see it as similar to Parcells ball, but much more complicated. That requires timely information processing, not great physical ability, and is the reason we even know who Tom Brady is. The difference is: I don't see JP ever working in that system. BUT, if he did somehow make the system work, when it broke down, he might be able to make plays on his own, and in that he could be dangerous. UNLIKE Brady, who cannot play at any level when his system breaks, as evidenced by the last SB, and the AFC championship game the year before.
What!? Which JP Losman are you referring to? Wasn't this EXACTLY what was happening in Buffalo in 2005 and 2006 when he was as solid as a wet turd?
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I believe there were comments from Edwards himself that he felt "worn down" by season's end because he had not done a good job of keeping his weight up. Thus, he dedicated this offseason to bulking up a bit in an effort to increase strength and stamina.
This is why I think the JP/Trent presason 08 debate is moot. At this time last year he was preparing for four months of gripping a clip board. Make no mistake, said preparation was both mental AND physical. Now he'll have had 8 months to visualize and get his mindset together.
If someone told you Saturday night at 1am you had to be at work Sunday at 8, you'd probably have a pretty rocky morning.
To try and make a prediction on his performance this year based on last year is incredibly problematic to me.
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Not a chance.....
worth a try! -
Actually I dont care about the Stanford injuries....we all know they were bad.
But he did get dinged up last year and our OL was pretty solid in its pass protection.
Any chance you would entertain the possibility of brass trumping TE's injuries last year in order to give JP one last shot??
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Piano. It sounds good on it's own, and can be used in any kind of music.
Evanescence- My Immortal is a great example, just a piano and a great voice.
Agreement on Piano. Definitely the most versatile of instruments.
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I see what you're saying, but some players are clearly more suceptible to injury than others. Peyton Manning and Brett Favre are examples of players who, for whatever reason, don't get hurt. Even players who suck and play on lousy teams that get knocked around can be tough and seemingly uninjurable. Look at David Carr when he was in Houston.
David Carr is a good example. Farve and Manning, not so much. Those guys DON'T get touched. Perhaps Carr is the exception to the rule.
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I think this is a valid arguement.....
I actually think we are going to be pleasantly suprised with Trent....but we do need to have a guy behind him that can play.
Sure it's a valid argument, but can't you say that about EVERY player on the roster? Not that everyone has the same history, but isn't everyone equally suceptibel to injury in this game?
Furthermore, wasn't the Stanford squad he played with like historically BAD? Didn't he get sacked like every fifth time he dropped back or something absurd?
Now having a quarterback with a putrid sack record in college, one could easily turn around and say, "Well, then that speaks to his ability to play the position and avoid the rush." This is totally true, but I think the ONE thing we can all agree on in regards to TE, is that he deals very very with pressure, and during his rookie season-of all times- he displayed a knack for AVOIDING the sack.
I say this because in staying with what I believe to be true about his Stanford team: his injuires, their lack of success, etc. could have all been attributed to being a lousy team. Period.
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I am not entirely sold on Trent as is, although I would say he deserves to be the starter at this point; it is unquestionably his job to lose.
For starters, I am concerned with Trent's history as a "winner." He was 10-20 as a starter during his college career. He also threw nearly as many INTs as TDs, making me wonder why so many have branded him such a smart and savvy protector of the ball. I do however like his seemingly level-headedness and he clearly has good size and nice touch on most of his intermediate throws; I think he coulddevelop into a very nice player when surrounded by quality pieces.
My most pressing concern however, is his durability and toughness. Trent sat out his first year at Stanford in 2002. In 2003, Trent beat out the incumbent starter and started for 4 games before being knocked out for the rest of the season with a shoulder injury. In 2004, Trent was the unquestioned starter but injuries kept him out of four more games. 2005 was Trent's finest collegiate year by far. He played the whole season, and Stanford ran off an impressive 5-6 record. In 2006, Trent was once again knocked out for the remainder of the season, in the seventh game of the year. Wel all know what happened last year -- only adding to Trent's impressive injury history.
My point is that we will see JP as the starter, for one reason or another, at some point this season. It's going to happen and he needs, as well as we need, to be prepared for that. Trent's propensity for sitting out games seems to indicate to me that the Bills will always need to have a capable back-up during the Edwards' tenure. Whether that means spending the extra money to bring in a proven veteran, or investing in another 3rd rounder in the next few years in the draft, I think the Bill's FO will have to address this problem.
It's football. Shiit happens.
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I am trying to understand your point. You were waiting for JP to have a LONG scramble but in comparison you remember Trent scrambling for short - medium yardage when required. Some stats:
JP in 37 games rushed 91 times for 419 yards: 2.46 rushes/game at a 4.6 yard/rush
TE in 10 games rushed 14 times for 49 yards: 1.4 rushes/game at a 3.5 yard/rush
JP attempted to rush more times and gained more on average per rush.
Those are interesting stats, and keep in mind I'm going on memories here.
I was WAITING for Flutie like scrambles, would have settled for EFFECTIVE, 4-5 yard scrambles for firsts, but never seemed to get either, especially in situations- like Gordio pointed out- when the opportunity seeeemed to be there. And in those situations where he stood and stood and stood and stood (see my first post here for what I have to assume must have been going on downfiled with the defense), only needing 3-6 yards he ultimately spiked it off Royal's feet three yards away, chucked one deep or sent a laser sailing by 5 would-be receivers (3 of them defenders).
I also operate under the mantra that "stats don't tell the tale" so I'll take your numbers with a grain of salt, not to be stubborn, but just because I distinctly remember Trent being a more EFFECTIVE scrambler. I remeber it being that way because it seemed backwards at the time (and still does).
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JP never had a chance to develop with the Bills. He played for a number of different coaches in a number of different offenses, on teams with little to no talent. The JP HATERS all say he had a chance but couldn't get the job done. I say who could get the job done with the coaching & players he has had around him? Steve Young & Jim Pluckett are two players that come to mind that didn't have "it" until they moved on from their original teams. I think JP's future & legacy will be determined by the team he goes to in 09.
I was pro-JP from day 1, way back when Murlarkey stupidly handed him the reigns. I was pro-JP because I'm pro-Buffalo and will support the starting quarterback. In 2007 I was (believe it or not!) pro-JP AND pro-Trent for this very reason.
Then came the Jax game and we were all handed the Cliff-Notes version of JP's career. End of story.
Will he push Trent? Just hard enough to prepare himself to chuck an 88 yard bomb to Evans once TE goes down, IMO.
TOTAL NON-SEQUITOR: one thing I was always waiting waiting waiting for was a long scramble from JP, and it just NEVER happened. Everyone kept saying it was because SF made him stay in the pocket, stay in the pocket. But I distinctly remember situations where Trent would tuck it when they needed 4-6 yards, and get the first down. This was something that used to ENRAGE me about JP. When you stand and stand and stand, unless the defense has two LB's spying (in which case SOMEBODY has to be open), there's got to be room somewhere (especially for a quick-footed, slippery guy like JP) to get those 5 yards and keep the chains moving. But it just never happened.
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So in your mind then having compiled a 5-4 record as a starter, with wins against teams that were collectively 23-57 or an average of 5-11 is all that matters then, huh, especially when it was because the defense held pathetic offensive teams down.
In four of those five wins the Bills scored a total of three offensive TDs. And you think that Edwards contributed heavily to those wins. Whatever.
Well, good for you.
I personally expect a little bit more from my teams. But hey, to each his own.
You're a troll.
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Well, when you say that you say it as if I think this team would be good if we did.
Let me put it this way, I wouldn't start Edwards over anyone and if you break down his games all you have left is excuses as to why he sucked royally. Other than this "poise" thing which no one has even explained how it matters practically, there is absolutely nothing to his game. Zilch!
If the team plays so much better otherwise, and all we we are going to get with this team playing better in other facets of the game is dead last offensive production and near dead last defensive production, and a downturn in STs from the year before, then I"ll simply pass.
Why don't any of you have any higher standards for your own team?
I would start JP over Edwards for the simple reason that the offense moves the ball more yards, scores more points on average, logs more 1st downs, converts more 3rd downs, etc. I mean isn't that what an offense is supposed to do?
Seems to me that if you were to take a poll here the answer is no, it's not. It's supposed to see who looks better on the field and walks off the turf with fewer grass stains on their uniform or some rot.
I just don't get it. The team is better w/o Edwards. So why do so many people want to see him on the field and why are so many of you so excited to see him play like sh-- again and make the offense play like sh-- again?
He's not good and there isn't anything besides this absurd notion that "he's poised" yet with absolutely no definition as to how or why it even matters behind it other than to say that others around him play better when that's not even true for the offensive players. Defensively, chah, don't we expect the defensive players to play better vs. Miami, the Jets, Browns, or Ravens than we do vs. Jax or NE? I guess not.
I see.
Well, it's not worth the calories needed to type but: You keeping asking what is poise? And then you say poise means nothing.
So far the answers have been: accuracy, patience, decision making, quick decision making, and the ability to stay un-rattled. Those are the "objective" answers to the "objective" questions you asked, yet you continue to respond: What is poise?/poise means nothing. If all the aforementioned qualities mean "nothing" then what does? Stats?
If stats: you seem to have conveniently ignored my initial response which explained that Trent was superior in the ONE stat that does matter: Wins.
So, in other words, you started this thread to discuss ("objectively!") your OPINION why JP should be the starter.
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I'm not a JP homer though.
But dismissing the simple facts that the offense performed better under him reveals that you may be an Edwards homer though.
He still sucked, but as the facts show, it was better than Edwards. In fact, our best offensive performance by a long shot was with Losman under center.
Okay buddy, you need to show me a link to facts that the offense did better under JP.
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Well IDK what he did as a rookie to earn the job besides get drafted and have positive things said about him.
Either way, the team determined last year that he would better help the team win, not be best as the team moved forward into the future. By their calculations, the offense performed worse under him. It's difficult to tally Ws and Ls for each QB when JP played the Pats twice and the Jags while Edwards got the Jets twice, Miami, the Ravens, Bengals, etc., all the worst teams on the schedule besides Miami once.
Also, JP played mostly when Lynch was in his first games as a rookie while Edwards got him with more seasoning. Still, the O performed better under JP. It scored more on average, got more 1st downs, more 3rd down conversions, and although not by a big enough margin to be good, still better than Edwards, whose performances everyone is overlooking in favor of statements such that he's poised.
My response is so what, who cares if he leaves the locker room with platform shoes and a bell dress on, if it doesn't help the team, who cares.
I suppose deep down I'm just wondering at what point fans and media gave up looking at what an offense under a QB actually produces rather than how he looks in a uniform or some other meaningless notion.
I'm also not sure that most Bills fans truly realize how pathetic our offense was with Edwards under center.
On top of that, we were +9 in Turnover Ratio on the season. Under Edwards we were +14 while under JP we were therefore -5. The QB doesn't get credit for that since they don't generate takeaways. So in spite of that, Edwards' offense was still less productive. In his 9 starts that's an average of over 1.5 TO+ per game. To achieve that the team will need a +25 TO ratio this year which would have led the league last year.
He also got the help of 4 non-offensive TDs in his 9 starts whereas Losman only got the help of one.
I guess that my point is that under Edwards, who only proved that neither he nor the team could score with him under center, and that beat only the worst teams, did so with record TO ratio production and record non-offensive TD production. So can we assume that he will get that again this year? If not, how will that help/hurt the play of the offense under him but more importantly, how will it help/hurt us in winning games?
48 Defensive players on IR = a weaker defense = playing from behind = making a rookie QB pass way more often than he should. What makes Trent special? He handled the responsibility far better than the VAAAAAAST majority of ROOKIES would in similar situations. In week 15 last year, Bills fans were talking playoffs. WHAT!? Playoffs? But your offense was the worst in the league, your defense was ravaged, and you were riding the backs of rookies at QB/RB. That's right, almost made the playoffs last year.
Go ahead, write that off as coulda-woulda-shoulda-didn't. To me, it carries gravity.
Passing Yards and TD's (your lone criteria for Edwards' evaluation) ≠ wins and losses.
Buffalo was 4-5 in games where Trent got the majority of the passes. I'm even tossing you a bone here because I'm counting the first NE game and NOT the Jets game when JP came in and threw a TD to go up by 10 late in the fourth. Take those away- count only starts, and Buffalo's 5-4.
JP with the Jets TD = 3-4. Without he = 2-4.
JP ='d his third year. Trent ='d his first year. For better or worse, they were quite comparable, but in my mind the edge SHOULD have gone to the third year man.
Now may be we're picking between a Giant Douche and a Turd Sandwich- I say, let's see how Trent does having had a year (and not just the time between plays mid-game) to prepare for being a starting NFL quarterback. Then you can flame away.
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The movie definitely had its flaws- some points in the movie I remember thinking, "really?"
Especially the part after the fund raiser when Batman/Rachel fall feet first onto the cab whilst the Joker is still at large at the party. Resolution to this scene? None.
It was a movie that wanted to be two separate movies, and probably should have been. A Joker movie, and a Two-Face movie could have been equally potent and the two of them seperated would have been better than DK, IMO.
I think that part of the movie's flaws result from it being piggy-backed on to a (surprisingly?) successful C. Bale effort in Begins. I think this really comes through with the Michael Cain/Morgan Freeman cheese-factors. But I guess that's to be expected from those two nowadays. Perhaps the entire movie's creation was rushed?
All that being said, I THOROUGHLY enjoyed the movie, I can name way way way more positives than negatives, and most importantly:
HEATH LEDGER WAS INCREDIBLE.
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I don't understand how the browns are at # 2
Even they admit their coverage team is below average
Yeah, that's retarded. So is ranking the Bears ahead of Buffalo. Evidently by "special teams" they meant "return men."
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Donte has a ways to go, even on his own team.
He ranked third on the Bills last seasons in tackles (Crowell 126, DiGiorgio 113, Whitner 89). Donte was 62nd among NFL defensive players in tackles, 63rd in assists (Kawicka Mitchell was 53rd) .
His 4 tackles for loss wasn't top 4 (Kelsay 6.5, McCargo 6.5, DiGiorgio 6, Williams 4.5, Schobel 4).
Sacks? Zero.
INTs? He had 1. (McGee 4, Jim Leonhard 2, Greer, 2, Wilson 2). So did Kelsay, Tripplett, DiGiorgio, Youboty, Ellison, andKiwaukee Thomas.
Maybe teams are running and throwing away from him.
Does that render him a Pro-Bowler?
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I can't think of a player on the Bills that I'm looking forward to seeing more than Whitner this year. This guy is really making himself the face of the franchise. I think that he knows that this team is ready to make some noise in the playoffs and he is not shy about speaking his mind. Every tme I see Bills-ralated news it has a good quote from him in it. He has been talking the talk and walking the walk. I know some fans skewered him for his playoff guarantee, but I commend him for it. I think we are all going to be shocked at how well Whitner plays this year and how he leads this defense. I'm taking a page out of Donte's book and I'm guaranteeing that Whitner makes the Pro Bowl this season.
Can't wait for the season to start...
Go Bills!
Where do you see Whitner excelling? Tackles? Sacks? Interceptions? Which of the aforementioned (or any other area of performance, for the matter) will warrant him a trip to Hawaii?
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Nope - I'm waiting till next week or the week after, and seeing it on the local IMAX.
Yeah that's a good call. I'm going to a regular theater tonight at midnight, but only because the iMax shows here in Chicago are all sold out for the next two weeks!
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Of course there is. You always want all your guys in camp on time. It's paramount to your team's development and success. I wish the NFL would do like the NBA and have set contracts for each draft slot. No arguing, no debating, no negotiating. Players know what they're getting and just sign and get into training camp. That's it.
Yeah, but we're not talking about the NBA. The NBA draft is a countdown of the best projected players, period. The NFL, on the other hand, is all position specific, so one could make the argument there is a stronger perception of NEED when a guy is picked in the NFL.
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My prediction is 11-5. I think we can finish anywhere between 10-6 and 12-4. I just worry about Jauron getting this team well prepared to start the season. So far 2 seasons under Jauron with both slow starts. If we're not at least 10-6, then it's time to can Jauron.
Yeah. Let's start from scratch again.
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The Big Cat turns twentyfrigginfour years old today. Now I understand.
HFBD Big Cat!
Thanks! I think?
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VS SEATTLE - The crowd is jumping and the stadium is as loud as the Dallas game. The Seahawks are used to this. We know we need to start this season on the right foot. Low scoring game but we Seattle wins it by a hair. 20-17 L
Seriously? We lose because they're used to loud crowds? NO. This is a win, for sure.
At JAX- Revenge of Stroud. The Jags are a powerhouse team. We are a year away from becoming what they were last year. Jags win it 24 - 14 L
Most likely.
VS OAKLAND - The fans think this is a sure win but it turns out alot like the Vikings game 2 years back. Russel isnt experienced enough and the Bills win it. 17-13 W
Def a Bills win. I wouldn't be pleased if we scored less than 30 points though.
AT ST.LOUIS - This is Edwards coming out game of the season. Very good game for our team as Edwards throws for 3 TD passes. 28 - 14 W
Yes.
AT ARIZONA - This looks like a W on paper but it is much tougher than expected. The Cardinals upset us 17-10. L
Absolutely not. Their offense will look like deer in headlights. There are very few NFC defenses that play with the tenacity we'll field this year. Mark my words.
BYE - ZzZZZzZZZZzZZZZ
VS CHARGERS - The Chargers run us over even though we have had so much studying on them. Chargers 27 - 16 L
Tough game for sure. A loss wouldn't ruin my week.
AT MIAMI - The Dolphins still arent tough enough to beat the Bills. Trent has a good game. Bills win 21-9 W
Won't even be close.
VS NY - The Jets are being over-hyped IMO but still a great game at the Ralph. The Jets win with a last second field goal. Jets 17-14 L
Are you high?
AT NEW ENGLAND - We arent elite in the East yet. Patriots run us over 31-14 L
See SD.
VS CLEVELAND - The win I want the most - We do not get. Cleveland ruins our MNF night by a hair. Browns 27-23 L
This one goes either way. My money's on the Bills. Cleveland will have lost their luster from last season by this point, Buffalo will be looking to avenge the Dallas fiasco and will be coming off either a loss to NE or they'll be riding high from their first win against the Patriots since 03. Either way, game- Bills.
AT KANSAS CITY - We have this even if they have a crowd like ours. Bills win 20-10 W
No contest.
VS SAN FRAN - Back on track - We beat the 49ers. Clements revenge game! Bills 16 - 7 W
Great opportunity for our second-stringers to get some time.
VS MIAMI - We need to show Toronto a good time. Bills come on top as Trent has another fun day with the Defense. Bills win it 34 - 17 W
We will squash them into the Earth.
AT NY- Wow. A 4 game win streak! Bills win with a bunch of FGs - 19 - 13 W
NY's wheels have come off, Buffalo's thinking playoffs. Bills win, Bills win.
AT DENVER - Elam is gone. Thank god. But we still lose...
. Denver tops us in a close one. 20-17 LThis one goes either way. A loss can be swallowed, but we'll have to see where each team is this late in the season.
VS NEW ENGLAND - Who knows whats gonna be happening when this game rolls around. I say we lose this game, but not by much. L
I get butterflies just thinking of the implications of this game. AFC East Championship anyone?
Final record: 8-8
But I really think we can go 10-6
What do you think?
I love how being a Bills fan means "realistic" is synomous with "pessimistic."
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I know man, it was a good call on your part. I was trying to further it a little bit.
Go Bills!
Trent's Durability?
in The Stadium Wall Archives
Posted
Right! And on such short notice! I'm quite giddy for what he can do after a year's worth of starter-on-the-brain!