pBills

But what is your point besides a POLL before the general election campaigning has them virtually tied? It means nothing as of right now. And really we should be seeing it close right now because McCain has not had to face any true opposition - since Obama and the democratic party have been getting the nomination in order. So realize your facts mean nothing right now.

Hillary Clinton sees end of White House dream By Toby Harnden in Troy, Michigan Last Updated: 11:21PM BST 02/06/2008 Hillary Clinton is preparing what her aides, many of whom are being laid off, privately describe as a "valedictory" speech in New York as the final votes are cast in Democratic primaries. Although Senator Clinton was still making her case aggressively to uncommitted super-delegates – the party officials in whose hands her fate lies – members of her advance staff who set up campaign events were recalled home and told their jobs were ending. The former First Lady normally holds primary night "victory" events in a state that has just voted or is about to vote. But she is bracing herself for a double defeat in South Dakota and Montana and is instead heading for her home state of New York. Five months to the day after Iowans braved snow and ice to attend their caucuses, the epic Democratic primary race will come to an end in the wide open spaces beneath the sun setting in the big sky of Montana. Clinton sources said that although she was unlikely to concede the Democratic nomination to Senator Barack Obama or to endorse him, she recognised her dreams of returning to the White House were over until at least 2012. A concession speech in New York later in the week is a possibility. Mr Obama needs the support of fewer than three dozen of the remaining 160 or so super-delegates still on the fence. With an insurmountable lead in the total of pledged delegates – those allocated by primary and caucus votes – he is expected to achieve that by Tuesday. After the New York event, Mrs Clinton is due to return to Washington and spend the day conferring with her husband Bill, daughter Chelsea and senior aides at her headquarters in nearby Arlington, Virginia. Mr Obama, in contrast, has already turned his attention to the general election against Senator John McCain, the presumptive Republican nominee. Anita Dunn, a senior Obama adviser, told ABC News he would not be waiting for Mrs Clinton to concede. "He's not going to wait by the phone like a high-school girl waiting for a date." He was campaigning in Troy, Michigan – a state whose primary contest was initially invalidated by the Democratic Party because it was held too early. A safely Democratic state in recent elections, Mr Obama's advisers believe he has much ground to catch up there, particularly among the white working-class voters who have voted so heavily for Mrs Clinton in recent contests. In Puerto Rico, which she won by a 36-point margin on Sunday, Mrs Clinton already appeared to be looking back wistfully at her campaign, which formally began early last year with her being considered the "inevitable" nominee. "A lot of the people who have worked their hearts out for me in this primary season, they're not quitters in their own lives," she said. "It's been a privilege and an honour to have met so many Americans, been to so many of the beautiful places in this country, and I feel like I'm doing it for the right reasons." Mrs Clinton appeared close to tears as she described what she called "one of the most incredibly gratifying experiences" of her life – having her daughter, Chelsea, 28, campaigning for her.

I really don't know anyone who thought it would Guliani. Sorry. It was pretty clear and very early if I might add that things were not going his way on the republican side. I seem to remember polls that also had Obama in double digit leads a couple weeks ago. So what? All this poll means that McCain has had time to do nothing but bash Obama, while he has had to wage war on two fronts. Now that this is pretty much over for Hillary things will change awfully quick. Bush, whether you like to admit it or not is going to be huge factor in this general election. After all McCain agrees with the war and staying there for a large amount of time, he agrees with tax breaks, he stated he doesn't know much about the failing economy. Want more? Most democrats I know are not pissed at all, they just want this thing to start and to get after McCain, instead of letting him have a free ride in this. And really, people, not just dems should be bitching about Bush. He's done a crappy job. Since you are so into polls, look at his approval rating. What is it now? 28%? Republicans saying that everything is fine in the US and the world in 5....4....3...2....1....

So I guess they will just have to go with some of the issues that McCain disagreed with Bush on and now agrees with Bush? Believe me McCain is NOT a shoe in for Presidency. He has a long road ahead of him. And we have learned anything from this season - don't believe the polls. McCain has been on a holiday doing whatever he wants to do while the dems are figuring out there nomination (for at least two more days). McCain's free ride will be over soon and I can not wait for that.

People wanted to hold on to hope for "their girl". Understandably so. She is a fiery, well educated and great politician. Problem with this campaign was that she and more importantly the people around her got cocky and expected to win. They believed it was in the bag and relaxed. She should, and I believe she will concede tomorrow night or first thing Wednesday AM with a great speech something along the lines of "we ran a great campaign, we have shown that we are strong..." Basically a go team speech that includes her being 110% behind Obama.

The 2012 logic I do not get either... only because it's not to often that a party will knock out their sitting President.

It would be wonderful for him... although the onslaught of democratic messaging would be amazing. Fast and furious. I am quite sure that many firms are out there just biting at their nails, waiting for the nomination to be handed down.

Same was done when I was in Stockton, CA, Oakland and San Francisco.

Let's see if Pasta feels that way.

So pasta, let me as you this. Even though Obama leads in all phases except popular vote (I'm giving you that one), you feel as though Hillary should take this to the convention and fight it out, drag it out? More less waste more time?

It's a debatable point. Clinton counts the results of Michigan, a state that until Saturday had been denied delegates because it jumped ahead of other states in violation of Democratic Party rules. Though Clinton was on the ballot, Obama withdrew his name from contention in that primary. Clinton received 328,309 votes in Michigan to none for Obama. Clinton's claim also includes estimates for caucuses in Iowa, Nevada, Maine and Washington state, where no official candidate popular vote is available. Obama won Iowa, Maine and Washington state. She also includes the results from Florida, where none of the Democratic presidential candidates campaigned in advance of its primary earlier this year because the Democratic Pary had declared its delegates ineligible. Clinton won more votes than Obama in Florida. Without Florida and Michigan in the count, Obama leads Clinton by nearly 450,000 votes in the combined popular vote in primaries and caucuses where delegates were at stake. Moreover, under Democratic Party rules, the popular vote does not determine who the nominee is; delegates do. On that count, Obama has 2,068 delegates, leaving him 50 shy of the number needed to secure the nomination, with two primaries remaining. Clinton has 1905.5, according to the latest tally by the AP.

Oh my god, stop spouting Hillary's talking point - no popular lead unless you do fuzzy math. Ok, so she'll quit tomorrow? At least then the primary and caucus season will be over or should she take this to Denver now?

So does that also explain why Edwards, Richardson and Biden did as well? All pandering to Iowa and NH after the fact does make much sense when your staff has to worry about the primaries and caucuses to come as well as raising money for them. If I may ask, where did this idea come from? Again, popular vote lead is debatable. Superdelegate count, now: 331

Or working behind the scenes trying to raise money.

When used please refer to: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KACQuZVAE3s

Oh my lord where are you getting such strong kool-aid? He knew he was going to lose and pulled out before it could happen? Wow, that makes sense. With that school of thought, he should never jumped in the Presidential race because Hillary had 20-point leads all across the country. Shouldn't he have just skipped 90% of the primaries and caucuses? And Point of fact is that Hillary signed upon the same agreement regarding Florida and Michigan... the ONLY reason it became a big deal to her is because she is and was losing. Only reason. Just face it, her campaign royally screwed up. They believed that they would have this won by Super Tuesday. They didn't. Then they were instantly behind the eight-ball in organizing advance crews for each upcoming primary and for raising money. The other HUGE blunder was that because they expected to win - they did not care as much about the caucus states. That in itself killed her chances. Regarding popular vote, as I posted earlier - that is completely debatable. Sounds like a bushism - fuzzy math.

June 2, 2008 Sources: Most uncommitted senators to endorse Obama WASHINGTON (CNN) — Most of the seventeen Democratic senators who have remained uncommitted throughout the primaries will endorse Barack Obama for president this week, CNN has learned. Sources familiar with discussions between Obama supporters and these senators tell CNN’s Gloria Borger that the senators will wait until after the South Dakota and Montana primaries to announce their support for Obama. Two sources familiar with the sessions said the endorsements will come sometime later this week. Obama supporters have been “pressing” for these superdelegates to endorse earlier in the week, but according to one source, “the senators don’t want to pound Hillary Clinton, and there is a sense she should be given a grace period.” A series of meetings on the topic have been facilitated at different times by Illinois Sen. Dick Durbin, former Senate Majority Leader Tom Daschle and Iowa Sen. Tom Harkin. Durbin and Daschle are Obama supporters, while Harkin is uncommitted. According to CNN’s Candy Crowley, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid will remain uncommitted until Clinton officially drops out of the race.

The REAL Pasta Joe.... http://cache.valleywag.com/assets/resource...ushComputer.jpg

No matter what all three depend on Hillary... how SHE wants to either bow out or fight this at the next credential meeting and then maybe on to the convention. As much as I dislike her, and as much as I know the right has a million negative things to throw at her in a general election. The "Dream" ticket might be, and I mean MIGHT be the best way to unify the party before the general election.

Superdelegates (I believe) will end this shortly after tomorrow. I believe before the decision on Saturday Obama had 323, already gained 6 more. After tomorrow, he should have to receive what 15-20 out of 205 to reach the magic number.

I love when Hillary supporters say that. Fact is she (along with Dodd and Kucinich) didn't follow other candidates and remove their names from the ballot. Which she should have done. SO, if she would have followed the rules she agreed with - she wouldn't have been on the ballot either. Not to sure a Clinton as VP thing would happen now because things have been so heated between them.

Popular Vote Debatable (from the Associated Press): It's a debatable point. Clinton counts the results of Michigan, a state that until Saturday had been denied delegates because it jumped ahead of other states in violation of Democratic Party rules. Though Clinton was on the ballot, Obama withdrew his name from contention in that primary. Clinton received 328,309 votes in Michigan to none for Obama. Clinton's claim also includes estimates for caucuses in Iowa, Nevada, Maine and Washington state, where no official candidate popular vote is available. Obama won Iowa, Maine and Washington state. She also includes the results from Florida, where none of the Democratic presidential candidates campaigned in advance of its primary earlier this year because the Democratic Pary had declared its delegates ineligible. Clinton won more votes than Obama in Florida. Without Florida and Michigan in the count, Obama leads Clinton by nearly 450,000 votes in the combined popular vote in primaries and caucuses where delegates were at stake. Moreover, under Democratic Party rules, the popular vote does not determine who the nominee is; delegates do. On that count, Obama has 2,068 delegates, leaving him 50 shy of the number needed to secure the nomination, with two primaries remaining. Clinton has 1905.5, according to the latest tally by the AP.

So Obama leads in every way possible except popular vote (according to Clinton - she stated that before. Not counting caucus states and counting FL and MI before Saturdays decision). States won, delegates and superdelegates. Once Obama wins both South Dakota and Montana Hillary should do the right thing and back out. Save some face, and maybe keep some of those militant supporters on the left side.

Actually I had replied in a way to say you know what else I find annoying...

Did I say that you did? Geesh, paranoid.