pBills

Would the irresponsible institution be the company as well as the union contract? Did I ever say that the industry was fine before September? I grew up in a town that once employed THOUSANDS of workers and now has maybe half of that workforce in place. You don't have to tell me that the industry has been going down hill. In regards to your economy 101 - yes, of course things can be made cheaper overseas. Of course in many of those places overseas the wages are not fair, health care is covered by the government, etc., etc. Pretty soon your economy 101 will soon be affecting every U.S. company unless something is done. Why do you need to know exactly how much I pay for health insurance? Frankly it's none of your business. I pay x amount per month... point is that I PAY for me and my family to be covered. And it is MUCH better than when I worked for a non-union company when I was told that I would have to drop over $1,000 per month to cover my family. That is ridiculous. I work within a International Union. I see union contracts and arbitration settlements almost daily. Ok, so you have seen what happens when there is a lack management foresight and direction... but yet you keep arguing with me that it's mainly the unions fault. And NO KD health care coverage is not free. It's at a cheaper rate. I know this for a fact. I have union health care coverage, do you? No. So maybe you heard someone or read on some blog that all union people get free insurance. It's wrong. Our whole staff pays into their coverage per month. Favorite strawman - it's the truth.. incompetent management, exec comp, no accountability for failure, etc. Will most certainly bring a company down faster than the worker. After all, they are paid the big bucks to lead right? Instead many are rewarded for their failures or promises they can't deliver. The ones that are screwed are the workers... they are first ones to lose their jobs. I have had jobs on both sides as well. I understand that both sides have issues that need to be corrected. I just don't have the hatred that you have towards one side. And when are you sending me your money - I have held MANY managerial positions outside of the union. I'm not to sure if some union brother screwed you over in the past... but get over it. Those other industries I talk about are like Walmart. Probably a great company to you, yet they decimate small businesses, treat workers unfairly, import more from China than some nations, have suits against them for labor violations, etc., etc. Unions protect workers from being treated unfairly.

What union is he with?

You also have to look at the health care part of the workers... many workers outside of the U.S. have health care provided for them via federal government. That in itself takes a huge burden off of the backs of those companies.

ooops, is someone rewriting? hehehehehe

I completely agree. That goes along with the change that is needed within. If people are abusing their member privileges, they should be canned without union protection... or place them on a strike system. Mark their file, three strikes see ya.

Did I say forced to work overtime? If you a worker has a chance to work overtime and make money, who would turn that down? How many union contracts have you seen? Just asking. I did not see Gordio's "real life" example. I am sure that there are employees/union members that abuse the union protection they have. Not doubting that. Can't and shouldn't the whole as corrupt because of the few. I have always said that the unions sometimes protect people they shouldn't... and that things should be changed within. However, the union is not the main reason for this problem as you would believe. I have answered EVERY ONE of your questions. I have commented countless times on benefits. If some people are receiving health care benefits that cover every dime. I am shocked, but at the same time don;t both sides have to agree on these contracts? Oh that's right this is where the union strong arms the CEO's. Blah, blah, blah. Now you want me to discuss how much I personally pay per month for my health insurance? Let's just put it this way. I PAY FOR IT. Most if not all union workers across the board, all unions receive health care at a discounted rate as compared to someone who is not unionized. So if that health care practice is the problem why isn't EVERY industry failing because of the union? It amazes me how when a company fails the CEO's and the people who believe management can do no wrong (you) always place the blame on the workers. Unions offer FAIR wages, good benefits and most of all job security. Without the unions workers would still be getting raped. Oh, and since you mentioned the Federal Government... I am seriously hoping that EFCA gets passed.

No are you talking about 73 per hour as double time? Because I don't any UAW members making that much unless it double time. The problem with any union contract is that costs provided within are skyrocketing... example: health care. Not the wages.

I'm the idiot? Yet you are the one spouting off how unions has run the course and are no longer useful.... and you have never been part of an organizing campaign. Since you see nothing, all is fine. Such a tool. Stay in that hole you live in and keep the blinders on.

How many organizing drives have you been on? Probably none? So if that's the case then you truly have no idea what people have to put up with before coming unionized.

Dude you act as though what you say is the be all end all. It's not. Get over yourself. And I worked for a company that was in that business. The retreats they had NEVER EVER came even close to that price. Not even close. And when business is failing, change the way you do business. Don't go to the spa or golfing. Work in a board room. It's not about saving $400k. It's about dumb business practice that people like you like to excuse.

And more from AIG... but it's ok to some. As AIG execs are trying to recover from their spa scandal, news emerges that officials also spent possibly $500,000 on a golf retreat at the Mandalay Bay Resort in Las Vegas.

You're damn right I hated that money was misused especially when the parent company AIG is asking for a bail out. And that is not a simple cost, the business that was done there could have been done in an office building. No need for the massages, etc.

I don't care what their purpose was... if it was business it could have been handled in a board room in a building they didn't have to expense out.

How about AIG the parent company is getting bailed out. Smart people wouldn't spend that kind of money when begging. And feeble love the idea... subsidiary or not.

The risk is huge. Even Toyota has come out and said that if the big 3 go down it will affect them as well. Suppliers will be hurt or go into bankruptcy, etc., etc. And that's on top of the millions out of work.

If it was bought and paid for in advance or even if they decided to do it after they received their initial bail out... either way it was a waste and should have opened some eyes. No way in justifying it.

Their immediate retreat

Personally I could care less about the private jet ride into DC. $20,000 is nothing compared to what AIG wasted.

Most of the auto workers I know make around $25 per hour. Where they earn more is through overtime.

Is that Joe the Blow?

I would say this is anything but a cyclical down turn in the economy. I really want to know where everyone is getting their union "knowledge" from. I work for a union, and I bust my butt and I am not making serious bucks either. Not rich by any means.

Well if "incompetent management" fits then use it. And theses cases, it fits. You really need to stop with the term lavish. I don't know who you know within the union. Most of the union workers I know are not rich or live lavishly. They have great job security and good benefit packages. Which in the case of the UAW are being altered or cut back along wages.

They have already worked out deals to cut the starting salaries and to have the union take over the health care for retirees. I personally don't know anyone working or that worked a line that made $50.00 an hour. I know a lot people however that worked a lot of overtime. And I just bought a suburban. Outstanding vehicle!!!

If you go by JD Power & Associates American cars are right there in the mix.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!