OCinBuffalo

ok I'm here. I bs'd my way into parking right at the school....no faggy shuttle buses for OC. So far its been reallt great. As I got here hardy caught a 15 yard pass. so yeah they doing 11 v11 right now. Lynch looks great they kust ran 2 in arow that wouldhave gone for 5 plus ...make that 3.

cool I'm gtg re comm did I mention I haven't driven a car in 5 years?

Well, it's Friday after all, and it sounds like you have the same experience I do with Friday = everybody tries to dump their sh_t before the weekend. I did find a way to make sure I don't get any 3:30pm client emergencies though, I put somebody else in charge! Edit: Crap I gotta get going, I barely remember how to get there.

I have always been grateful for the training camp reports that posters here have presented. This is my first time going to camp ever, and I thought it would be cool to do a thread on what I see, and keep updating it throughout the day. This way, when you get out of that annoying meeting(or class), there might be something cool to read before you have to go to the next one. So, I will do my best to keep this post/thread updated today. Hopefully my phone's battery is as good as advertised. I will try to be as detailed as possible, and feel free to ask questions, as I only have one conference call today so I should be able to respond, except from 12:30-1:30 pm. I am quite pleased to be on the giving side instead of the receiving side of Bills info for once and I will do my best to be as objective as possible. I'm giddy(and obviously acting like I'm 5 years old) at 6:30 am...this hasn't happened in a long time. I know that I will be most likely watching people navigate cones/doing drills in the morning, but I'm happy just to be there.

F it, I'm going. I have multiple places to stay tonight as there are multiple of my brothers in Rochester that owe me. I am about to head out from Buffalo, and I have no idea what to expect. I haven't had a garbage plate since college. I would like to join your organization if you would be so kind as to give me a bid. I will see you all there at camp today...um that is, if I can figure out where you are.

Allrighty then: I am going. I have no idea what to expect, but I'm leaving in an hour anyway. I will try to do a report on my smartphone. I'll post after the first session.

WGR just said the same.

Depends on a few meetings and some client stuff. Right now it looks like I might just be able to go, but I won't know until tomorrow.

Correct. And this is the one and only reason Trent Dilfer has a SB ring. I saw him play live in Tampa, and he was the epitome of a deer caught in headlights. And when that wasn't happening, he was trying out his "superstar" impression = throwing off his back foot from the sideline towards the middle of the field for INTs. How can anyone be a mental midget AND throw 40-50 passes a game?(exception that proves the rule: Vince Young does it but he doesn't complete any) If you keep running the same 4-5 plays, because that's all the mental midget can understand, you can expect 5 INTs for every 40 you throw. Most passing plays, not the simple outs and screens, require solid and quick info processing from the QB. He has to see who's open, who's not, and keep track of where the D line and LBs are in order to be effective throwing 40 passes a game. If JP is a mental midget, it's not very likely he's going to be allowed to throw that many passes by any team. And that's what I what to know: the playcalling was clearly limited by Fairchild...why? Is it because JP is a mental midget or is it because Fairchild was a control freak and/or afraid to make a mistake or was it DJ being too conservative and/or not trusting JP? If it's true that they didn't trust him, then JP didn't get the chance he deserved, and it's possible he'll start elsewhere. If it's true that they were to conservative, then JP didn't get the chance he deserved, and it's possible he'll start elsewhere. If it's true that Fairchild was simply a bad Offensive Coordinator, then JP didn't get the chance he deserved, and it's possible he'll start elsewhere. If it's true that JP is a mental midget, and the coaches had to adjust the playcalling because of it, then he did get the chance he deserved, got replaced, and it's highly unlikely that he'll ever be anything other than a backup.

I'm not saying my numbers are perfect. I am saying that they are reasonable. I agree that the Sunni "rebellion" against Al Qaeda was happening before the surge. IIRC, I was the one who posted it first around here and was told I was delusional for doing so. The point I am making is that if you take the thing on the whole, without the surge, none of anything else was likely to be sustainable or anywhere near as effective as it has been. That's the reason for my 60% ranking. I think your are placing way, way too much value on the Sadr laying low thing. The simple fact is that the concrete is hardening on this situation as all indications are that it will stabilize soon. The more structure and legitimacy the Iraqi government is perceived to have, the less power Sadr has. His guys aren't gonna quit their jobs and pick up an AK again unless all hell is breaking loose on their street. The same is true for most people, wherever in the world they are. If they can feed their families, do a reasonable day's work and have a little fun now and again, Sadr's megalomania isn't going to have much of an effect. Again, the Sunnis "rebellion" wouldn't have gotten anywhere unless we had the shooters on hand, everywhere, to help them out. It's like calling 911. Your faith in that system is directly tied to how fast they respond and what they do when they get there. Sure they flipped on Al Qaeda, but if nothing happened, or worse, they got caught ratting them out, this "rebellion" would have failed rapidly. Instead, every time they made the call, the guy they dropped the dime on got smoked. So, they had no problem doing it again and again. Sooner or later, we killed all the Al Qaeda. Btw, while we are busy giving credit here: it's high time we credited the officers and men that went out there every day and killed/captured those bastards, with hardly any collateral damage. IF you say "When I am President I will get all of our troops out of Iraq within 16 months" at a speech today, it's pretty easy to set a date for withdrawal, and not victory: you just add 16 months to today's date. Right? Please enlighten me on the goals that are not the goals, that are not the goals that are stated. While you are at it, let me know how in heck you know that what Bush wants = what McCain wants. As I recall, McCain wanted the surge and Bush was slow to accept it. Bush <> McCain, but keep trying to make apples into oranges. It entertains me. Let's agree that you won't continue to assume that I am dumb enough to buy that lame politicking as a reasonable argument. McCain is not Bush, never was, never will be. Most Americans agree we should get the hell out of any war as soon as is feasibly possible. It's war, nobody enjoys it, and the objective of it is to end asap. You end it by winning it with honor, that's all there is to it. Unless you want to be right back fighting it all over again in the future. Most Americans agree that we hate losing a war and we are going to be pissed any time we think we are, and we are going to demand that whoever is responsible for losing it for us gets the boot. Have you ever eaten "3 lies in a bag", had no shower for a month and been stung/bit by every damn thing that knows how? Have you ever worn the same clothes(except your socks which you have to keep changing constantly) and slept outside for weeks at a time? Do you like being in a dirty, muddy hole in the rain whose smell is only surpassed by the B.O. of your radio guy? Ever have to give orders to move out over and over knowing some day, or this time, you're going to say that and somebody is going to die because of it? I haven't experienced the various hot bits of lead and other things that are trying to kill you while all this fun is going on, but the rest sucked a lot. Believe me, nobody wants to prolong a war. But, I'd rather go back and endure all of those things again than lose a war. Somehow you seem to think that war = an On/Off switch and that there are actually people out there who like the On, while you like the Off. No such thing. That's a false perception you'd do well to free yourself from. What also seems to have happened here is that somehow you think that people who want to win the war = people who like war = Bush supporters. And people that don't like war = Democrats/worshipers of the Obama. WTF is that?

Retarded. Kelly you are usually better than this. Been drinking today? I agree all of the above are factors. Now, let's try and do this without the "a-f are all equal contributors" distortion. Here's the amount each factor actually contributed: a = 60% b = 10% and this mostly has to do with a, because they were tired of getting smoked by us c = wtf? I hardly think business loans = payoffs. If that is true then we better take a long hard look at the Equal Opportunity and Women Owned Business grants/loans in this country. Anyway, 1% d = 4% e = 5% and this remains to be seen. I guarantee that if things improve economically, there's no way you see the same level of BS form Sadr, because nobody will care. f = 10% there might be something to this, but let's also not forget that many, many, many Al Qaeda didn't retreat anywhere. Most were cut off and destroyed. Sure. The problem is: the other factors are directly CAUSED by the surge and would not have happened or had any effect otherwise. In all cases, it is beyond reasonable(I know that's tough for some here) dispute that the surge worked as designed. It's also beyond dispute that McCain was the first to call for it, and that the Obama was against it and refuses to admit he was wrong about it. Hmmm. Never admitting to a mistake, don't we already have a President who does that? Apparently you haven't been trained in warfare. Let me help you out. The first rule is: all warfare is deception. Normally you kinda don't want to tell your enemy what your war plans are. See, that way he gets to prepare for them, and that means he knows your next move and can bring fire down on you and your people when you are in the open. It usually isn't the best idea, most of the time it's pretty bad, so let's learn not to do it and move on. So yeah the timetable is, was, and will always be WRONG!. Getting the Iraqis to do more wasn't Obama's idea, it's everybody's friggin idea. Who doesn't want that? I do not believe that the Obama would ever say he might not be right, especially after all the soaring speeches he has given demanding that we accept his omnipotence when it comes to warfare. How could we not with all his extensive training and experience in the art? Hell his demand for a timetable is proof enough of his military genius. Most American's? Hehehee. RCP has him up 4 points. Rassmusen has them tied and Obama is only up 2 points in Michigan right now. Most indeed. I love it when far-left Democrats start saying "most Americans agree", when they should be saying "20% or less of the country agree".

Apparently you weren't around for Jimmy "it's your fault, America, not mine" Carter. Believe me, it can get a hell of a lot worse than Bush and it took almost the entire 80's to clean up Carter's mess, right in time for Clinton to come in and start from 0, instead of -20 = where we were when Reagan took over. I still believe Michelle Obama isn't proud of this country, because I watched her say so myself on CNN, FOX and MSNBC. She can obfuscate all she likes, but she's nowhere near as good at it as Hillary is. She's got a lot to learn. I doubt I will forget it, even though you want me to. She had an opportunity to show her class in that situation. Hillary would have. Instead she looked petty. Moreover, if she didn't want to get herself involved in the campaign, then she shouldn't be making provocative statements of any kind. Like I said, a lot to learn. In fairness, she was obviously new to all this, at least at the time, just like her husband. Besides, the Obama has already said it was a mistake to involve his Holy family in his campaign. Sorry, I meant his holy crusade, so whaddya want? Your god has spoken. Regarding this cover, once again, we see just how phony and completely hypocritical the far-left is. Do we really want to put these people in charge of anything ever again? Really? Because when things get tough, and they actually have to make tough decisions that must be the right ones, somehow I think Jimmy Carter all over again.

This is the most ironic part: you are talking about POLITICS and a re-election campaign in a country that we supposedly should have never brought democracy to because they "simply won't accept it and it will never work"....according to the Obama and his acolytes. Hysterical. Here we are, actually having to consider the political campaign concerns of a man who is accountable to his people, who could be actually voted out of office if he doesn't attend to the majority of his people's views. OMG! The accountability demanded by Democracy, rearing its ugly head in a country that, according to the weak in this country, could never, ever hope to support it. The horror! I can't think of a better demonstration of the Iraqis being truly free than them voicing their views about what they want us to do, and actually have it be driven by political campaign implications. The simple fact is that none of this would be happening if we hadn't gotten rid of the old regime, they are starting to move forward, and we are about to win this war. Maliki actually has to run for and win re-election, which means he has to speak to his people's desires to move forward, and not just on, with their lives and start running their own democratically driven country....And this is supposed to make Bush or America look....Bad? How in the F does that make sense? It staggers the imagination to think that somehow anybody thinks it's a bad thing that democracy is actually working in Iraq. They are free, NOW, to say that they can stand on their own two feet, and that means that we can hopefully get out of there with a clear victory. Victory = 1st Democratic Arab country that will be a clear ally going forward. Free people have the right to self-determination and the right to disagree with our government or anybody else's. I have no idea how any of that is "bad". The only people who stand to lose in this, as they have since the beginning of it, are Russia, France and Germany, since they won't get to sell arms and technology to Saddam any more in trade for oil or cash. And, the far-left, not-JFK Democrats will be on the wrong side of history, once again. And once again, I am sure that we will hear all the excuses and the blaming everybody else, just like the last 14 times.

Yeah, but didn't you see the infinite wisdom of the Obama once again? We are supposed to take this article literally, like the ancients once took the Bible(before the Obama came). According to Bishop Hedd here, we are supposed to be thinking that Maliki is simply doing his civic duty and that he hates Bush, Republicans, Capitalism and America, because the Obama told us to. Oh, wait, actually he's not supposed to hate them....if the Obama says its ok, since all ideas originate from the Obama. If the Obama changes its mind next week, then it will be OK to hate them. I should take care, the Obama is probably aware of my blasphemies here and will punish me severely for my sins against the Obama. Seriously, I just don't understand how somebody can be sucked in by this, and even worse, somebody be duped so badly into writing this article. That is, unless they have another agenda than simply reporting the news. But of course, that hasn't happened before.... This piece is completely free of any context, and it certainly ignores history. The facts are that Democrats in Congress have been calling for Maliki's removal/stepping down for the entire time he has been in office. Now, suddenly because the Obama and Maliki's goals are temporarily aligned, we are supposed to believe that they have agreed all along? And, if only we had listened to the Obama/Maliki proposal from 18 months ago, which did not include the surge, everything would be better now? Scoff! BS Flag! 15 yard personal stupidity and loss of down on Bishop Hedd.

This is why I love this board. If I posted a literature reference like that on an Eagles board, I'd probably get asked "You mean like the K in Kmart?"

Um, no. Fairchild had Losman progressing through his reads, looking off safeties, doing a whole bunch of stuff that a standard Bill Parcells QB doesn't ever have to concern himself with. Think Trent Dilfer playing QB for the Ravens when they won the SB. He threw for 152 yards and one TD, but NO INTS. They put in 5-10 pass plays a game. Ran Jamal Lewis the entire time = 45 carries and threw to a TE once in a while just to keep the defense honest. You might see a down field pass every 2nd game. That was nowhere near what Fairchild was trying to run in terms of philosophical approach. The simple truth is we know Fairchild dumbed down his playbook to Techmo Bowl size. What we don't know is WHY! Was it because he and possibly DJ are so conservative? was it because they didn't trust JP?(if that was the case wtf did they put him out there for?) or, was it like McGahee all over again, they had to keep it to things JP could understand? or possibly a combination of all three? Clearly JP himself even came out and complained about the playbook being restricted, so it's a safe bet that at the very least there was a real passing attack on the books at least. Who knows? What I do know is that if JP went to the Dolphins, no one would have any illusion of what his role would be. Execute what you are told, no thinking, hand the ball off 40 times, throw to RBs/TEs out of the backfield = the play design says: there is only one guy you are looking to throw to, he's open or he isn't, throw it away if he's covered. Like I said, Frankenstein football.

While were at it: McGahee + Spikes <<<<< Poz + Stroud (and we got to draft Edwards in our original draft spot) = obie_wan needs to get a grip on reality. Our FO absolutely robbed the Ravens and Eagles blind. There's no denying it. Clements has done nowhere near special things for the special $$$ he's getting paid, and London Fletcher has clearly proven that he's merely on level with the other 8-9 decent MLBs in the NFC...for now. I hardly see how he distinguishes himself and is a must sign player, or, that we carelessly let him go.

Depends on what you mean by problem. Do I think he should be, in any way, loyal to this team? I wouldn't. Let's pretend we are talking about our work for a second here. If I was jerked around by my company, had 5 bosses at the same time, and new ones every time I turn around, etc.? Would anybody stay unless they had to? How is anybody supposed to "buy in" to that? Do I think he should harbor any resentment towards us or the FO? No way. I didn't work out, it's is simple as that. We aren't going to care in a year anyway, so why should he? Do I think we are in trouble if he goes to Miami or New Jersey and tells them our playbook? Well, let's worry about that playbook being any good first, or even around next year. Then, let's worry about if he is able to retain any of it. I'm serious, somehow I don't see JP as being able to retain much of anything if not exposed to it daily. And finally, let's take comfort in that fact that if anything, he'll probably goof it up and throw them off. Do I think that he will be a great player on those teams? It's certainly possible, especially in Miami. Bill Parcells is known for what I call Frankenstein Football. He doesn't want his players to think and/or improvise, he wants them to execute within his system. If JP can do what he is told and think what he is told, when his is told, then he certainly has the physical ability to do the rest. If he is handing the ball off 40 times a game, and throwing out routes to TEs/RBs and the occasional 20 yard pass down field, I can see him doing fine. Parcells is known for boring offensive football and great defense, and wailing on QBs who dare grab any of his spotlight. Perfect place for JP to be in that sense. He does what he's told, no thinking, and he gets rewarded for making Bill look good. Somehow I don't see JP doing fine with the Jets/Patriots offensive system. I see it as similar to Parcells ball, but much more complicated. That requires timely information processing, not great physical ability, and is the reason we even know who Tom Brady is. The difference is: I don't see JP ever working in that system. BUT, if he did somehow make the system work, when it broke down, he might be able to make plays on his own, and in that he could be dangerous. UNLIKE Brady, who cannot play at any level when his system breaks, as evidenced by the last SB, and the AFC championship game the year before.

This is right on target. Synder, once again, showing how "agressive"(read: stupid) he is. Parcells, once again, showing how subtle and smart he is. And yeah, this doesn't bode well for us....in about 2-3 years, maybe. I'm not sure that we should be that worried. We are talking about 2, solid, pro-bowl proven, pain in our asses leaving immediately in Taylor and Thomas, in trade for who knows who and who knows what? We have been doing the same thing? Sure we have, but we have also been hitting every draft pick pretty darn well. Even Youboty is at least worth trade bait status. It's been clearly demonstrated statistically on this board, multiple times, that there is a minimum 30% chance of every draft pick busting, in all positions. And, < 30% chance of 1st and 2nd round players actually making the pro-bowl-->ever. It's not a sure thing. We know Parcells tends to draft well, but even with that I'll take it. You never know, he could always pull a Ditka. It's a positive for us any way you look at it. The fact is that we still don't know who plays QB for the Dolphins. We haven't known that for sure for the last 3-4? years. Given Parcells'(?) history with QBs, I doubt we will know that for the next 2 years, minimum. So yeah, we will probably have to face a better and better defense every year, but the good news? Our offense will have a 2 year head start on them in terms of continuity, and that you cannot trade/draft/pay to have, and, their O is likely to be awful. Right now, the Dolphins have no leader on O or D, and a GM helper who hates his QBs. (I'm sure Romo's missed FG fun didn't help that bias at all.) Suffer Dolfags! Suffer! Regarding Dan Snyder, it seems he is intent on getting Churchill's quote backwards: He'd rather be consistent than right.

Um picking no to all three is = none of the above, btw. Shockey is the only one I would consider at this point. If there was a way to get Farve in here as a backup/mentor/assistant qb coach, and a way to trade JP to get him, then I would consider it. But, having thought for long and hard, I just don't think it's worth having Farve here because it damages Edwards(experience, growth, confidence, etc.) too much. Ocho Suck-ass you can have. The guy got abused by our secondary last year. If you can't beat the #27 secondary, what's that say?

Were you around here in 2005. I swear half this board wanted him gone. I didn't understand it then and I don't now.

OMG! Normally I don't like name calling but I'll make an exception in this case. MORON –noun 1. a person who is notably stupid or lacking in good judgment. So I guess Sadam WASN'T paying $20,000 to the families of suicide bombers? Do you simply consider that "foreign aid"? I suppose he would've done the same for Katrina victims, and that religion would have nothing to do with it, huh? He didn't try to build a hidden cannon to attack Israel, and he didn't try on multiple occasions to acquire nuclear weapons?(Hint: the facts say otherwise) This kind of thinking is tired, wrong, dangerous, ill-informed, and is directly due to deferring to one's ideology over one's common sense and reason. So we have two choices: you are either notably ignorant of these facts, or you are being notably stupid here(and stupidity, just like terrorism, is a choice). I'm betting the second, so that covers half the definition. What's it gonna take for you to wake up and realize that we are fighting this Terror War in 30+ countries? Wtf difference does one or two more make? The islamic terror campaign is being waged wherever Muslim "holy men" start bastardizing their religion into a political/warfare tool, rather than a spiritual one as it was intended. Right now these guys have one thing in common: they all claim that their excuse for killing civilians on a grand scale is granted them by Islam. That's nuts, and that means we need to neutralize them, wherever they are, right now. That said, it's time for you to do a reality check. Look, I don't like it any better than anyone else, but we are in a fight here and now it's about winning, not pussying around whining about the consequences of war. War is what it is, and sure as hell wasn't invented by George W. Bush. These terrorist have chosen to declare war on us, and most of the rest of the world, and that's not Bush's fault, nor was it Clinton's fault, nor will it be the next 3 President's fault either. You might as well blame my dog for all the crap in the world. Crap has been around long before my dog, and will be here long after. Unfortunately, right now, my dog's crap is something I have to deal with because I am a responsible, sensible person. I can't simply pretend that my dog's crap is going to deal with itself, or that if I feed him better, that he won't crap, or if I let the crap build up, that I don't stand a chance of getting sick and even dying. I can protest against crap, go on MSNBC and scream how crappy it is, but, at the end of all my irrational ranting, I will still have to deal with the crap. A terrorist, by their own choice, has made themselves a piece of human crap and needs to be disposed of in the same manner I would my dog's. Abject poverty, lack of education, whatever else, may contribute to terrorism(just like they contribute to gang membership), but they aren't the real cause. Azzholes are the real cause of terrorism(and gangs, The Bloods or the KKK) and unfortunately this world has no shortage of Islam-twisting azzholes right now. Terrorist Azzholes are azzholes because they choose to be, and will stop being azzholes the minute they choose not to be. We need to free ourselves from them, or compel them to choose not to be azzholes, wherever in the world they are, and that's that. Pretending that we aren't fighting a real war, all over the world, or that we can "protest" it away, shows a lack of good judgment...and so there's the other half of the definition. I feel I have clearly demonstrated both parts of the definition. I don't know you so I'll have to hold off on calling you a MORON and limit my good judgment to only calling your position in this thread what it is, by definition: MORONIC.

Good Bill Bad Bill. "Experts" such as they are, all agree that we have one of the best O lines in the league right now(Bills team record 26 sacks allowed, anyone?). It's also quite possible(we'll see) that we have one of the better D lines now as well. Um, 2 pro-bowler starters ain't bad. We'll see. Now that we got that out of the way, I am firmly riding the fence on this issue. I can see both arguments and I really can't decide right now which is better. Most of the pundits seem to think that we can get this done with JP and next year's 3rd or 4th. That's a good deal anyway you look at it, as already stated. The x factor is: What is the cost emotionally and experientially to Edwards if he is suddenly riding the pine in favor of Favre? Here's the other thing I haven't see yet here: Injuries. Injuries are a problem for us, and were last year for Trent(I am knocking firmly on wood right now) Also, we know that Favre has had a few injuries, but by and large he is made of iron and there's no way that Edwards won't benefit from having him around. That said, I agree with Good Bill, prior to this issue being raised, every fiber of my being was expecting Edwards to start, do better than Ok, and in fact turn some heads. All the evidence points to it: he is stronger, he wasn't physically prepared fully for an NFL season last year. The good news is: endurance and strength are things, unlike field info processing, that can be improved in a single off-season, and, at Trent's age, he is still growing. We have no idea where his body ends up and it's quite possible he picks up arm strength. The important thing is we know he can play at this level mentally, we don't know where he is physically yet. We generally know where JP and Favre are as QBs. The biggest question for me is: do I want to see JP Losman on the field at any point during the regular season. My answer: no way in hell, because it resurrects the controversy from last season and that's the last thing we need. Therefore, what is the best way to keep that from happening? Trade JP for Farve. The downside is that we now inherit the Favre off-season soap opera, but somehow I think that will take care of itself one way or the other the minute Favre realizes he is in Buffalo, and in NY. We don't care about his antics(as Bledsoe found out the hard way), we care about his play on the field. Before he comes here his agent needs to tell him that this fan base will turn on him like a mother-in-law if tries to pull any nonsense and/or he doesn't produce. It's an interesting choice and a difficult one. With everything I have said, trading for Favre still seems like an "impulse purchase" to me and that's why I am wary of it. What scares me most is if this whole thing goes down and Favre starts throwing 6 INTS a game. That won't help us at all, and it causes more damage than he's worth.

I don't think he could of thought of a worse thing to say. He is either very frustrated or just plain simple. Favre needs to give it a rest and so do the reporters that won't leave him alone. The more they bug him the worse the itch gets. Hell, I have had an itch to play all spring, but also know that I have too many concussions and one more is likely to cause serious trouble. Christ all you have to do is look at some of my posts and wonder if I've already had my "one too many". And, I would probably get beat a few times out there which would make me overdo it and hurt myself. He's gotta do what the rest of us have to and eventually come to terms with the fact that our bodies can't do the job anymore. I'm never gonna hang up my stick, but I have hung up my helmet.