OCinBuffalo

I have seen Miami play as much as I am able via videos on NFL.com, etc. The fact is? What fact? What fact are you talking about? There isn't a single fact in your post, or anything that could be construed as an argument that backs up this so-called fact you are laying down. I say it's a blow out. I say they will have no way of stopping our O for the reasons I have already mentioned, and that takes Ronnie Brown right out of the game. How about one fact that contradicts anything I have said? Better yet, meet me here after the game, and we will discuss the facts. The Dolphins are 2-4 for a reason, that's a fact. And, they will be 2-5 for the reasons I have mentioned. Lee Evans = 150 yard game. Let's see if that's a fact tomorrow afternoon. I'll be here right or wrong, unless I'm still at the bar celebrating the blowout, and that's a fact.

Analysis. For example: Fox's Simulator Preview Hmmm. Let's see what's missing here. How about the fact that our O line can now pass protect anybody? I think the single biggest reason for this is Preston replacing Fowler. Last game it was so obvious: the change gave the entire line the ability to focus more on their guy and stop having to look inside to help Fowler = no sacks. Whittle will do fine. What's different this game from last? Miaimi's secondary is way worse than SD's even though they are ranked higher. Consider: TE standing in the pocket and throwing without getting touched all game + Lynch and Jackson vs. anything Ronnie Brown does. It's not even close. This analysis basically ignores our side of the equation and has a single-minded focus on Brown. We can simply score too fast on their D for their O to keep up = the end of the Ronnie Brown on the ground argument and the beginning of Pennington having to pass from behind on the scoreboard...and that's if they don't turn it over. This is another "pass sets up the run" game. 80% of Miami's fans admit they can't stop the deep ball. If they can't get to us due to the O line, and Lee Evans is allowed to run freely, this game is over before it starts. <--There's the only analysis that matters, and the real "key to the game". If we set up to go deep most of the time, and they double Lee(which might not work either) = they will have to unless they want the score to be 28-0 at halftime, that means it's also going to be a career day for Roscoe, Reed, and even Hardy. Who's going to cover them? Joey Porter? Never mind all that free space for Royal, Shouman, Lynch and Jackson to catch screen passes, 7 yard outs, etc. I noticed that they completely forgot to talk about how good our special teams are, and how bad Miami's are = why they lost to the Texans, of all teams. Once again this is a no-contest match-up. What else is there to say? Finally this analysis falls down once again regarding turnovers. Our secondary is far and away the best they will play all year. We can leave our CBs in single coverage = blitz = sacks, fumbles, picks, and general chaos. This game is set up to be a turnover stat machine for us, like it has been the last 2 years, only surpassed by the Jets with Pennington. Thinking that Miami won't give the ball up at least twice is silly. Again, is anyone trying to say that SD's offense is worse than Miami's? Well, SD gave it up 3 times. The only thing that might save the Dolphins is serious mistakes on our part, or them getting ahead by a TD/keeping things tied, thus keeping Brown in the game. But, this single-minded, simple-minded, Ronnie Brown plan also means the Bills have only one thing to worry about = Ronnie will be sitting in the ice bath till next Thursday because he will be getting hit by 5 guys every play.

1. Lynch 2. Poz 3. Edwards 6. Wendling 7. Shouman Now that's a draft class. And you want to talk(read: make excuses for) about Donahoe? How about: 1. Whitner 2. McCargo(He's at least worth a 3rd rounder still) 3. Youboty 4. Simpson 5. Williams 5. Butler 6. Ellison In two drafts Levy put as many starters on this team as Donahoe did, and what's our record? While the "no signs" and the scaring the secretaries and all the other stuff is beyond ridiculous, let's just keep it to football: Donahoe had how many years to get things right? Levy had 2 and, again, what's our record? If this team had to play the 2004 team, this team would win by 3 TDs. And that's all it comes down to: Donahoe making us mediocre at best vs. Levy making us mediocre at worst, and Mort trying to cover his buddy's ass.

I was gonna write a bunch of stuff about Mort's history of dogging us....but suffice it say: "Hey Mort, We're 5-1, Blow It Out Your Ass!" See, I feel much better now. Try saying it out loud, and you will too. Do it again around 4pm tomorrow, except say "6-1" and you will forget all about this little turtle without a shell...until of course he does it again.

Oh jeez, I don't know. Why don't we start with: Whitner playing 3 different positions this Sunday, FS, CB, NB, none of which are his normal spot, with Youboty and McGee on the bench, while the bills hold the Bolts to 100 less yards passing than they average per game. So I guess McKelvin was the reason they didn't get so many passes, right? I was at the game, I didn't miss a snap, and I am telling you McKelvin was picked on most of the game. In fact, he's the reason they got as many passing yards as they did. Don't get me wrong, he was awful close, but not close enough. I answered your question, now answer mine: How the hell has Whitner, playing three different positions, and making plays all over the field at them, NOT helped in the passing game? Again, it's back to 1985 for you, huh? You and Mike Ditka would be best buds, you could go out together wearing your parachute pants and listening to REO Speedwagon. Then you haven't watched the Wildcat at all apparently. Almost all of the runs, most of the TD runs, that came out of the formation were designed(there was one that was bounced outside because they fed up the play) to go a or b gap = right where the DTs are. Few were to the outside. The whole point of it is to take advantage of a fat DT moving the wrong way or attempting to hold his ground, by adding another blocker to misdirect him or pull and nail him/trap him, or the LB he is trying to protect. Instead of the D having an extra guy(because the QB is there) it's all even up at the LOS. The secondary point of it is to ignore the DEs, or neutralize their pass rush and/or speed, because everything is misdirected outside and then run inside. Oh, and Miami used it quite effectively against the Bolts DTs, who are widely regarded as excellent, and who play in a 4-3. You might want to go over to NFL.com and watch the film, it's fairly well done. I already have on multiple occasions. You still have yet to explain how a team that passes for 300 yards, scores 30 a game, and routinely takes it to other teams via the pass = the Bolts, was held to 191 passing yards with two of our starters on the bench. I know, it was all McKelvin Dude, read the article I posted already. Whitner was all over the field, and he is the MAIN reason they didn't get anywhere near their averages in the passing game. The other reason was Mitchell. All of those guys were nowhere near Whitner starting their 3rd season, so cut the crap. And, all those guys play in Zone-Blitz schemes, which means that the SS has a lot more freedom to cherry pick, and to blitz, because everybody else is taking most of the primary responsibility. In our D, Whitner is primarily responsible for a lot more than they are, so he doesn't get to take as many chances. The simple fact is that Polamalu gets to run around free because he's hardly ever responsible for coverage, or for the run game. Whitner is responsible for both. And, those teams have all had superior LBs to us except for this year, so it's hardly a fair comparison. You give Whitner the free reign that those guys have, and the LB corps, and he easily gets the same stats they do. But that's the whole point. Stats aren't the game, big plays on third down, or, as has been said above, stopping a decent play before it turns into a gash or a TD are stats that are just as important, but less "glamorous", I guess.

Because he still has hope that he won't end up looking terribly wrong about Whitner. But like I said ---> he should abandon all hope and accept the reality.

I think that's the girl we were hanging out with for a while at the bar. She's a riot.

Oh and I forgot: we did that with our best cover CB and our starting NB on the sidelines. How many times did they throw at Mckelvin? Why? If Whitner couldn't cover...

Hey Dawgg Still think the Pats* D isn't old and/or their best, and final, shot wasn't last year? Fred Jackson sure as hell played like a "great" player last week. I wouldn't be surprised if he gets a look as an alternate pro-bowler. But, what does it matter? The fact is that he is a great part of this team, and we would certainly miss him if he was out. My definition is the exact same that you hear everyone else use when the talk about the draft, so why is it suddenly only "convenient" when it is applied to Whitner? Whitner made two game changing plays the first game he ever played. We are talking about a third year SS here, not a RB or a G, so let's realize that amount of mental work that goes into being elite at Whitner's position, especially in a Cover-2 based defense. We are coming up against teams/players Whitner has seen before, and let's see how he does. My bet is he's going to light them the f up. WTF does McCargo have to do with any of this? So drafting McCargo makes drafting Whitner a bad idea? We drafted Whitner first! You have a lot of explaining to do on that one.

And if this was 1985 I would agree with you. But it's not, is it? Since it's not 1985 and this league isn't dominated by the Bears and Giants running the ball 65% of the time, scores of 9 to 6, running for 4 yards a carry is a big deal, etc., boring-ass football, your argument falls apart. It's 2008 and that means: 1. This league passes the ball 65% of the time. 2. Your safety is your only hope in a Cover 2 of stopping the run, consistently, just look at the Colts with vs. without Bob Sanders. 3. The run is set up by the pass, not the other way around. Look at all the draws, and misdirection running plays this year. I have never seen as many as this year. Every single one of them set up by the pass. 4. Why do you think Miami's wildcat stuff was working so well? It makes big, fat, DTs who can't move irrelevant. This is a copy cat league, and the fat kids have been exposed. Next year everyone will be using that stuff, and it will be the SS, not the DT, whose job it is to stop it. Where in the heck do you get the idea that Whitner can't cover? Did you bother to read the article? We held the Bolts to 191 net passing yards, 100 less than average, and half of what they normally score. If Whitner "couldn't cover", how the hell did that happen? Magic?

So freester, if Whitner makes the pro-bowl this year, which is certainly in the running to do, will you finally abandon this nonsense? How can you say that he's not "great", when I specifically defined great = makes other players better, and then gave specific examples of Whitner doing just that? Hows about you provide something, anything, that proves that Whitner isn't already acting like a "great" player.

Why? My argument is based on the fact that the 7 teams in front of us could've picked Whitner and didn't = we stole from them. But, for the sake of argument let's look at the next 7.... 9 Detroit Lions Ernie Sims Linebacker 10 Arizona Cardinals Matt Leinart Quarterback 11 Denver Broncos (from St. Louis Rams) Jay Cutler Quarterback 12 Baltimore Ravens (from Cleveland Browns) Haloti Ngata Defensive tackle 13 Cleveland Browns (from Baltimore) Kamerion Wimbley Defensive end/Linebacker 14 Philadelphia Eagles Brodrick Bunkley Defensive tackle 15 St. Louis Rams (from Atlanta Falcons via Denver) Tye Hill Sims? Meh. Lineart? Almost Bust. Cutler? We'll see, but no way he is as good a leader, and he's a friggin QB? Plus he can't keep his mouth shut("I have a stronger arm than Elway" ), plus he looked terrible against us and last game. Ngata? This is the only real argument, but when you have a NOW top 4 player on the board, you take him, regardless of position. Wimbley? I have no idea who he is or what he is doing, and that can't be good. Bunkley? Bust. Hill? Bust. So, no, really no friggin way in hell are any of those guys better overall players than Whitner. None of them has had the net positive effect overall that he has, and most of them have done a hell of a lot worse.

You might as well be still arguing that The Surge didn't work. It's time to deal with the reality that The Surge did work and drafting Donte Whitner at 8 in 2006 was not only not a reach, it's lining up to be a steal. Let's start with this right here. A "great" player makes those around him better. How about a player that can replace those around him due to matchup or injury and improve the play at that position? Strike one. Let's look at who was drafted ahead of Whitner: 1 Houston Texans Mario Williams Defensive end 2 New Orleans Saints Reggie Bush Running back 3 Tennessee Titans Vince Young Quarterback 4 New York Jets D'Brickashaw Ferguson Offensive tackle 5 Green Bay Packers A. J. Hawk Linebacker 6 San Francisco 49ers Vernon Davis Tight end 7 Oakland Raiders Michael Huff Safety Who of the above is a better leader than Whitner? Who is, pound for pound, playing better at their position? Who is having a better effect on the players around them? Who can step in and play 3 other positions on the field? Strike two. Hawk, Davis, and Huff? It's not even a debate. I can see Ferguson, maybe, but Whitner's intangibles and versatility means he wins. Young? Please. Reggie Bush is starting to look like a 3rd down scat back. Marshawn has the same # of TDs, and 100 more yards on the ground. Mario Williams I can see, but again, he loses in terms of the overall player. Ferguson, Williams and even Bush are debatable, but even if you throw them in we still got the 4th best guy in the draft at the #8 slot, and that is a steal any way you cut it. 4 spots in the top ten = (to move from 8 to 4) costs you a #18 2nd round draft pick, or 2 #14 3rd round picks. Draft value chart here So, like I said, Whitner is an absolute steal. Finally, the other players ahead of Whitner have all probably peaked. They are what they are and they are as good as they are going to get. They average safety doesn't really hit their stride until 5-6 years in the league, and that means Whitner is only going to get better. I'm sure Vince Young is going to make a big comeback... Strike three. 3 strikes you're out. Here endeth the argument. Deal with it. And for those of you still trying to talk about Ferguson, please explain how the hell we were supposed to do a deal with a division rival over the guy they wanted. It's over. Be happy we didn't listen to you, and be happy that Marv Levy was running this team.

Linky

That's what I was going for, and that's exactly what it reminded me of, kinda like dealing with artillery, you just find a spot, stay there, and pray you don't get hit, because one spot is as good as any other. One poor guy came out with a piss stain from his just below his butt to his heels.

Probably fans from other teams hating.

Yep

I only caught a slight splash of piss...but it was on my friggin elbow? Then I realized the guy next to me had some fire hose action going on, and he was hitting the top and side of the pee trough = blow back. Fortunately most of it was hitting him and not me. But, I was lucky. There were people yelling out about getting pissed on all around me. As I left and walked back into the sun, I felt like a survivor...

Checked out the Charges board, seems some of the fans were seriously annoyed with Rivers. I didn't see anything specific with regard to Brees, but clearly many are less than impressed with Rivers. Here's some stats: Drew Brees ranked #1 is passing(Rivers @3): Link Drew Brees ranked #1 in Fantasy(Rivers @6): By NFL Network Rivers has a better rating, but Brees has thrown for 500+ more yards and has a higher completion %(+5). Both teams are 3-4. If I'm a Charger fan, I thought I was getting rid of a guy who was "too inconsistent" in favor of a guy whose measureables were better, with a stronger arm, and who was less likely to throw that game ending pick. Not so sure after this past Sunday.... I wonder if AJ "fire the guy who got us here" Smith wants to put his decision to get rid of Brees and take Rivers on his resume as well? I also wonder if he will put this past game, and us stomping on the Chargers in the playoffs, if they get there, on it as well. Oh, and Trent is #4 in the NFL in passer rating, and #2 in completion %, btw. (In honor of LSI) But, I was one of those who thought we should have bet the house to get Brees. Looks like I wasn't that far off....

I think all of you are forgetting one major mitigating factor to any discussion of a so-called "pattern", correlation, or causation: The massive changes in the front office and coaching staff. If you want to use stats of any kind, there's no way in hell you treat data from the last 8 years as though it's all the same. Due to that, you really can't have a serious discussion re: trends, etc., because there entirely too many variables that have changed, never mind the reality of just how much of a mess Donahoe created here. Four things were true as a result of Marv Levy/Dick Jauron taking over: 1. This was a 5-11 team who was absolutely awful almost everywhere on the roster. 2. Due to #1, Levy had to bring in stopgap players(Fowler, Reyes, Price, Triplett, Royal etc.) all over the lineup just to make this team somewhat competitive. Parcells has done the exact same thing in Miami, but I'm sure he was a genius for doing it, but Levy was an idiot. Right? All stopgap players have since been removed, through solid drafting/FA signings, except Fowler and Royal. 3. There was an offensive line EMERGENCY on this team, thus Levy had to take drastic measures to resolve it immediately. 4. There was an defensive line EMERGENCY on this team, which Levy didn't resolve, but Brandon sure as hell did, immediately. You simply cannot draft your way out of emergency status on either line. Period. Now that the O/D line emergency has been resolved, for the most part = you can't say either line is terrible anymore, they are at least in the top half of the league, it will be interesting to see what happens going forward. The point is: you don't get into O/D line emergency status in one or two years, you do it by neglecting it for 4-5 years. At the same time, you don't draft in a vacuum = other teams get to pick too, and you have to draft for an entire team, not just one position. When you are as bad as we were, you don't have the luxury of a long term drafting strategy, you have to maximize the value of every pick you take. Levy/Brandon have done nothing but draft solid starters/potential starters in their drafts. Period. You can try to talk about McCargo, but then ask yourself why the Colts were willing to trade for him. So, now that things appear to have stabilized with this team, it appears we are finally on a level playing field. IMO, that means we can now start to adopt a more general, long term drafting strategy. IMO, we need to start focusing on the lines, especially the 2 remaining "stopgap" positions, C and TE, thus preventing the emergencies, and leave the other positions for FA. I am comfortable with Hamdan being the #2 QB on this team, we have plenty of WR and RB talent. We could use another LB, but our secondary seems set for a long time. Given all of that, NOW and only now, we can finally start focusing on the lines in the draft.

1. The WSJ should check the fans in their own town before they start talking smack about anybody else. I have been going to Bills games, mostly one a year, for 30 years now, and I have never, ever, seen women get harassed, grabbed, etc. But apparently this is a common practice in the Meadowlands. I have watched 3 games in Jersey and there has always been some kind of major fight around me. The last time a NYC cop happened to be sitting behind me and some !@#$ decided to chuck a battery at me, missed and hit his kid. That was the end of that. Talk about f'ing with the wrong guy! He bounced the kid's head off a seat and threw the cuffs on him, blood everywhere, but yeah, we are way worse. 2. I have been to 9 different stadiums to watch games and there is no way in hell that Bills fans are anywhere near as misbehaved as this article says in comparison to what I have seen. Of the 9 I'd put us someplace around 6. Philly is far and away the worst place in terms of just about everything. I have seen kids getting hit with batteries, drunks throwing full beers on women and their kids, and maniacal behavior in the bathroom. It's not even close. It's like: 1. Philly 2. NY 3.....everybody else NY(Jets and Giants), Cleveland(esp. the Steelers game) and Oakland are easily worse places to watch a game in terms of drunks, fights and general BS. Baltimore is about the same as us. Chicago, SF, Tampa, and Atlanta was like being at a work social function. I will give them the fact that we likes our alkihol, but there's a huge difference between being drunk, jumping up and down cheering for the team, and dropping the occasional f bomb(in my case I always apologize if prudent) ---- and drunk, swearing every other word, not even paying attention to the game, and throwing beers/batteries at kids.

I honestly don't know enough specifics about run blocking schemes to say for certain. But I do know coaching in sports, and how to get matchups to work my way. What I don't understand is: If your guy has an extra 50-80 pounds on the guy across from him, and equal if not better feet, I have no idea why you would have your kid come off the line and run sideways, trying to use body position to get an advantage on a different guy. It seems to me that you do that only if your guys are equal or smaller than the other guys and you're just trying to get one hole at one spot. Running sideways/diagonal gives up all of your advantage/leverage and it simply comes down to who can get to what spot first. I don't get why we don't have our guys push straight ahead, right at their man, especially the opponents DEs. The best example of that was the Lynch TD vs. the Raiders on the goal line. Lynch barely had to do anything, because the entire Raider team was already in the endzone when he was handed the ball. It looks like he expected to have to juke and ended up falling forward because there was nobody in front of him to run into. It looked like he didn't expect that at all and fell right on his face . I mean I'm sure he didn't care as long as he gets his TD, but that play looked ridiculous. If our guys can blow up an entire line like that -- and don't kid yourself, the Raiders D line is pretty good -- I have no idea why we don't do it all the time. The sheer chaos it would create, never mind giving Lynch a 3 yard head start, seems to be worth doing it more often.

I have no dog in this race other than to see that the ignorant are not allowed to prosper. "Boy" means what it says in the context I wrote it, you know it, and you can stick your PC crap up your ass. So I guess the expression "The Boys Downtown" is now racist as well? If so, then Paul Newman is now officially a racist as well, and Rolling Stone is a propaganda site for the right wing, according to your ridiculousness: http://www.rollingstone.com/blogs/traverst...-fans-notes.php "The Verdict. Arguably, Newman’s finest performance. In Sidney Lumet’s 1982 legal drama, Newman plays a failure, a Boston lawyer on the bottle and heading for the skids until a medical negligence case gives him a leg up on redemption. Not a false move invades Newman’s portrayal. And it’s a kick to hear him dig into juicy David Mamet dialogue, like his attack on a crooked judge: You couldn't hack it as a lawyer. You were a bag man for the boys downtown and you still are, I know about you.” The fire is his eyes as he delivers those last four words—"I know about you"— is unforgettable. Lumet told me that he, Mamet and even Newman admitted at the time that they wanted, really wanted, to win Oscars for The Verdict. That they didn't remains a blot on the Academy." Nice lame attempt and calling me a racist. But wait, I forgot isn't that the playbook for all you little proles? If you haven't noticed, the topic of this thread is ACORN and Democratic Party election fraud. Sorry but this is still America and we still get to talk about the truth here, at least for a while.

Easy. Read the original post. ACORN got busted doing exactly what Democrat machines have been doing since Boss Tweed. What else is there to say? JFK won because of a massive conspiracy led by Daley. You said these massive conspiracies don't exist. History says you're dead wrong. The fact that ACORN just got busted says you're dead wrong. Holy God says you're dead wrong. These are facts. Where's the innuendo? Do you even know what that word means? The fact is that Richard Daley's son is running the Chicago Democratic machine now, and everybody on the planet, except apparently you, knows that it is a completely corrupt organization, in league with corrupt labor unions and the mafia, and has been since forever. How the hell else did a Daley end up as Clinton's Commerce Secretary? Oh and you want some new Daley/Democrat/Chicago corruption form this century? Here you go: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hired_Truck_Program "Hired Truck Program The Hired Truck Program involved hiring private trucks to do city work. A six-month investigation by the Chicago Sun-Times resulted in a three-day series of articles in January 2004 that revealed that some participating companies were being paid for doing little or no work, had mob connections or were tied to city employees. Truck owners also paid bribes in order to get into the program. The program was overhauled in 2004 (and phased out beginning in 2005).[10] Patronage The hired truck scandal eventually sparked a Federal investigation into hiring practices at Chicago City Hall, with Robert Sorich, Mayor Daley's former patronage chief, facing mail fraud charges for allegedly rigging city hiring to favor people with political connections. On July 5, 2006, Sorich was convicted on two counts of mail fraud for rigging city jobs and promotions.[11] Daley said that "It is fair criticism to say I should have exercised greater oversight to ensure that every worker the city hired, regardless of who recommended them, was qualified and that proper procedures were always followed." Just like is has been from the beginning in Chicago, and boy aren't we lucky to have a Democratic candidate from there. I'm sure Obama doesn't "owe". Yeah I'm sure the Daley's are going to let one of their boys be President and not ask for a thing.

Which proves what exactly? None of these professors are part of the system that determined Bush the winner. I never said that these guys aren't right. I specifically said the whole thing stinks to high heaven. Right? But, I also said that you can't bring yourself to admit that your own people f ed you, and if only 5% of them hadn't Gore would have won. How is that Bush's fault? It's not. I also said that election fraud in the Democratic machines around the country has been going on for 150 years and will continue until somebody permanently breaks those machines. How does anything you have posted here disprove that? It doesn't. The original point was that it is beyond doubt that Richard Daley and his Democratic machine conspired to steal the election for JFK. It's not an urban legend. This is history and it's also the truth. Deal with it. Another fact: Democrats in 13 states are being investigated for voter fraud. Yeah, and I'm sure it's all Bush The FBI so much enjoys being made fools, of course they do. The original, original point was that somehow you, and others, think that Democratic machines don't routinely commit election fraud, when history clearly shows they do. As I explained, they have recently been thrown in jail for it. And, they are being investigated TODAY, right now, as I write, for doing the very same thing. And all of this = 150 years of history, is supposed to be simply washed away because of 2000? or because you say so? No friggin way pal! You can complain about 2000 all you want, but you look ridiculous when compared to sheer #s of elections that have been tainted by corrupt Democratic machines.