OCinBuffalo

1. It takes a lot more than the likes of you to truly irritate me....a better word to describe your activity is: boring 2. I clearly said "dispute". I don't see any disputes. I see agreeing with pretty much everything I said. So....well, I don't know...now what? This isn't fun anymore I guess I will go back to data modeling...it's time for work anyway.

Are you gonna start sending me PMs telling me that you "got me" now? This should be fun. I can't wait until you start asking me how it feels to be "owned" by a bartender...and I am really looking forward to you chasing me around the board, posting lame crap like this, for the next 3 days. How about this? Instead of that nonsense, why don't you work real hard to dispute any of these, and show off your familiarity with the above material? Here you go: 1. The results we are currently getting from people who have never worked a day in the real world are...exactly what you would expect from people who have never worked a day in the real world: childish, impractical, and wishful. 2. What is currently happening is almost lock step with Jimmy Carter's, and his policies, utter failure. 3. The current results we are getting have everything to do with: an all-encompassing belief in bad theory and ideology..and proven so by historical fact and nothing to do with: real world, experience-based understanding of how business works, the economy, history, etc. I'll be here all day: why don't you show us what an educated opinion looks like.

Hysterical. Many on the right have been predicting this very thing for at least a year now. But, of course, at the time, they were dismissed as "alarmist". Looks like that Governor who said we all better get used to being good Europeans wasn't that far off now was he? What else can we do but laugh? This is like Cinderella. These people are literally trying to turn us into a European country as much as possible....before November comes and turns them all into turd pumpkins. I honestly believed that the Democrats would do a Clinton, and hold on to power for at least 8 years. I expected Obama to at least back up some of his soaring, centrist-oriented speeches. I never expected them to be this stupid. They are going to piss people off to the point that they will never recover. They have already succeeded in losing what remained of the "moderate Democrats". Independents are well on their way to being gone. But...this "doubling down"? This has the potential to break the Democratic party and make it permanently irrelevant. This is one hell of a risk to take. There's a fine line between being ballsy and being stupid...it appears they are 3 states past that line, well into Stupidland. Oh well, might as well get ready to be called stupid, racist, hateful, etc. on November 3rd, when they get thrown out of office, and they start blaming us instead of themselves....again.

Present, and ready to start working with anybody else who can say the same.

This again? Good God people: This is hardware guys vs. software guys. Some of us deal with this every day, and those that do know that it will NEVER go away. The fact that its become political is hysterical. It used to be: whenever one side got the better of the other, the losing side would innovate, and "the balance would be restored". In ALL cases, the very last thing we want is the government getting involved in this, because, by definition the good way to resolve it = innovation, will be killed off, and replaced by "whoever pays the lawyers and politicians more". I will give you a real world example: the cell phone carriers keep screwing with their JAVA standards and web browsers. Why? Because they don't want software developers to be able to build something that works on everything. Why? Because if a certain technical architect was to build that, it means that their market and product goes back to being: a commodity, which means they have to fight an eternal price war. So, whatever should that certain technical architect do? Run to the government, pay them off, and force these carriers to stop letting their marketing people mess with the standards/browsers...or...should he...innovate and create a software architecture that uses their own d-bag tactics against them, and remains platform agnostic in spite of all of their efforts? As long as hardware people exist, they will be trying to tell you that somehow the hardware they are selling, which does the same exact thing that the other guy's does, is better, and will use whatever lame marketing tactic they can to differentiate. And worse, hardware people have deluded themselves into thinking that people buy hardware for hardware, and not the software that it runs. And, as long as software guys exist, they will be bitching in general , and specifically bitching about proprietary hardware platforms having little tweaks/unreasonable charges that are a result of hardware marketing people trying to differentiate.

Hmm. I will take a crack at that one. How about you show me a liberal that is FULLY competent with ALL of the following material: 1. Economics 2. Finance 3. Accounting 4. Management(of anything, at this point, given what I have seen so far, I would even count a winning little league team as proof of competence) 5. The Constitution 6. World, and especially US History 7. Organizational Theory 8. Behavioral Psychology 9. Leadership Skills...training(yeah, I know, but I have to give them something...it's not like the average liberal is the "captain of the team" type, so maybe learning about what real leaders do counts?) 11. Math...to at least pre-calculus level 12. Science to at least a passing grade in physics, biology, chemistry 13. Logic...no exceptions. 14. Reasonable understanding of Technology 15. Poker...Chess or Backgammon as possible alternatives...hell Euchre could be used here as well. Between this and #9, you have to know how to assess risk, mitigate it, take it, and deal with the piss offs if you come up short. and, has actually accomplished something in the real world(which does not include only working at a University or for the Government).... ...and I will show you somebody whose opinion on politics is at the very least...informed properly. Yes, yes, everyone is entitled to their opinion. Of course they are. However, everyone is NOT entitled to call, or demand that others recognize, their opinion as educated. So, show me a liberal who can honestly say that they have an educated political opinion, based on the criteria above, and I, and most right-leaning moderates(read: fiscally conservative, socially liberal) would have no problem working with them on any issue. I couldn't care less what the bible thumpers have to say at this point. Their nonsense = George Bush -> how we ended up with Nancy Pelosi being in charge of anything. The problem is that educated liberal political opinion is getting harder and harder to find. This board is a fine example. There are what? 3-4 liberals(SDS is one) here who can claim 1-15...and amazingly, they always seem to be the ones who can at least articulate their position coherently, and dare I say, convincingly....without the use of Bill Nye, MSNBC, etc. What else explains the current results we are getting from our current Congress and President? We keep hearing that Conservatives are "stuck in the past". My response to that is: yes, you are right, we simply refuse to forget Jimmy Carter, and the last time this Keynesian/"talk to our enemies"/"let Europe tell us what to do" nonsense was tried. So here's my question: how the heck are we supposed to work with people who refuse to learn from their mistakes, or worse, aren't familiar with the material above, and therefore, aren't aware that they are mistakes? who refuse to abandon this tired, old social engineering crap? Who is really stuck in the past here? Isn't it the people who are still trying to resurrect this Jimmy Carter nonsense? How are we supposed to work with people who can't seem to stop pretending that it's 1965, that the global economy doesn't exist, and that the rest of the world still hasn't recovered from WWII?

Right...the "saracasm" was obvious. That's why 3 other posters called you on your naivete. But, of course, you now do the "I was just kidding thing". Spare us the lame CYA attempt. Tell, me, exactly, what about your OP could in any way possibly denote sarcasm? It ain't there. And, now, it's backpedal, back backpedal, backpedal...as per usual. All we have is what you write...not what you "meant to say", facial expressions, etc. ...we do have emoticons And, even if you did intend sarcasm...what's your point? Those that make a deal about waterboarding = Pollyanna when you put waterboarding in the context of how the real world operates? Yeah, we know that already. Thanks. And, this means that basically you are calling all the little leftist turds that used this issue for political gain either phony, or extremely naive and therefore should be ignored, because they don't live in the adult world....yeah, we knew that already as well. In any case, up to now, your posts have not shown much intelligence. Based on that, my expectations of you simply aren't high enough to expect you to execute sarcasm properly. This post does nothing to move those expectations.

Boy nothing gets by you does it. Perhaps you are unaware, but, at least in my day, it was possible to take college classes in high school. And, instead of me trying to make a nice post about how an otherwise total douche went out of his way to be fair in the classroom and make it about the job, you are choosing to make this about me. Are you sure you really want to go down this path with me? I can guarantee you won't like where it leads.

I took Macro and Micro in high school, not college, and when I did I had a teacher who was: 1. Perhaps the biggest D-bag liberal I have ever met, wearing his Go Get Em Ollie North T-shirt once a week 2. a terrible person 3. a horrible coach of one of the teams I was on(we won sectional/states everywhere in every other season but the high school season) 4. the biggest Keynes fan you have ever met, and one hell of a teacher of it but... 5. went out of his way to fairly teach supply side economics and accurately describe the effects they were having, and even to question his own positions, so one hell of an ECON "professor" all around. Thank God he was able to do one thing right

For those of you who don't know who he was: Wiki And, I will begin with an excerpt from that above link: In 1999, Time magazine included Keynes in their list of the 100 most important and influential people of the 20th century, commenting that; "His radical idea that governments should spend money they don't have may have saved capitalism".[1] So, um, how's that working out for us? See what I mean? It gets better: "The day is not far off when the economic problem will take the back seat where it belongs, and the arena of the heart and the head will be occupied or reoccupied, by our real problems - the problems of life and of human relations, of creation and behavior and religion." Hmm... Kinda like: "Let's ignore the economy and take a year to pass an 'historic' health care bill that doesn't cut health care costs, adds demand to the insurance market, doesn't increase health care supply"...apparently because.... "the problems of life and human relations are more important, and, the economy should take a back seat." How about this old chestnut: "The best way to destroy the capitalist system is to debauch the currency. By a continuing process of inflation, governments can confiscate, secretly and unobserved, an important part of the wealth of their citizens." Well, what do you know? Increasing the deficit = Inflation...even old (*^*&%^$^#Keynes would have to agree...Therefore, Increasing the Deficit = Inflation = ? Confiscation ? Nah, I am just being paranoid. This isn't about redistribution of wealth through the utter destruction of capital, or the destruction of the capitalist system...of course not. And of course, my favorite. Is there a finer example of justification of selfish behavior than this? "Long run is a misleading guide to current affairs. In the long run we are all dead." Great, so that means it's OK to screw future generations(like mine) over with ridiculous debt now, because: Hey! We are all gonna be dead anyway! How "Me Generation"! How Baby Boomer! John Maynard Keynes, ladies and gentlemen. Aren't we all glad he is dead? Oh, wait, dammit, Paul Krugman is still alive! Great, so we still have a guy around who will tell us that Stagflation is a great idea...because, of course, "The day is not far off when the economic problem will take the back seat where it belongs" To quote Hancock: "All you people still thinking that Keynesian Economics is a good idea...You're all idiots!" Oh, and Link to the quotes...for rfeynmann...since google is soo hard.

Ahhh, as if we need anymore proof of just how little leftists understand how the real world actually is. Or, as if we need more proof of the mental affectation being a "morally superior" leftist requires. Apparently mop-boy needs a lesson in reality. I have one word for you: Spetnaz. And you are talking about waterboarding? Spetnaz have tortured, raped, and mangled thousands of people, and I am only talking about the ones that are still on active duty. These are the guys that routinely put the evil in The Evil Empire and continue that practice to this day....and you think...they are going to use...water? The terrorists they don't electrocute, hang, bleed out, and bury alive, are going home....minus one or more body parts, if not carrying their junk in a jar....but you are asking about...water? Pathetic. And...childish. Perhaps its not your fault, you just lack wisdom, and apparently the desire to attain it. A final question: in terms of barbaric torture practices, Spetnaz is only rivaled by the Mongols, Romans, Vlad The Impaler, etc. But...what ideology spawned them? Why is it therefore necessary to resist that ideology anywhere and every time it appears? Answer: because when you start believing that that's its a good idea to artificially enforce economic equality on people who inherently aren't economically equal, by definition you lower the value of all people artificially. Once the value of people has been lowered enough, things like the Spetnaz become easy to not only tolerate, but condone. And then, once this stupid ideology inevitably implodes, Spetnaz becomes necessary in order to continue to enforce the artificial equality. But, then again, we are talking about mop-boy here...so 5-1 this last part, or, maybe this entire post, is going right over his head.

Remember that part above, where I said "no anecdotes or platitudes because for every one you have I have one that counters it"? I literally just ran into a guy who worked in a similar job as you, NYS Power Authority, who said he quit and took retirement because of the the jackasses in the union, laziness etc. He said that unions have all gone to hell, will take anybody, don't do anything to help good workers, only spend their time trying to force management to keep the bad workers, etc. He quit by his own doing, he wouldn't gladly go back if he could. So, as I said, spare us with the stories/platitudes about unions, for every one you have, I am like the F You mirror.

Uh what? I nominate this as "ignoring the other 14 facts that don't support my point" post of the month. While you are mostly correct, you are leaving out the: 1. Multitude of petitions they sent to the colonial governors, parliament, and the King himself, over a long period of years. 2. Multiple diplomatic missions sent to England that attempted to keep the peace/compromise 3. Declaring, in prose, exactly what their grievances were, and defining why their cause was just(Declaration of Independence) 4. Attempting even after #3, to again resolve their differences with England diplomatically. 5. Initially, going out of their way to fight a defensive campaign that would minimize loss of life on both sides, preferring a logistical/moral victory over attrition, in an attempt to force England back to diplomacy. It wasn't until later, after consistent defeat, and after some British-paid bad behavior by the Iroquois, and some wicked retaliation, that the war became total, or, as you say truly "violent". Talking about the war, only, in relation to the entire Independence movement is like like only talking about the overtime period, and not the hockey game that preceded it, or the shootout that followed. We don't tolerate poor interpretation of history, and we certainly don't tolerate rewriting it (see: Idiots that say the Civil War Republicans would be Democrats now because the Civil War was about slavery). I am an equal-opportunity history enforcer hah, hah....I guarantee she's older than us

Whoosh! Hear that? That is the sound of that reference flying over the Big Cat's head. It's like the cell-phone ringer that only young kids(and me still, hehe) can hear, except it can't be heard by idiots. Thanks for the laugh. I am sitting here, doing boring stuff, late at night, again, and thinking about how long its going to take for the kitty to get it...looks like its already been 3 days...

Right.....let's see, is blzurl right? Or, is she re-upping her membership in the Wrong Club again? Hmm...which is more disgusting: This Pundit This Media Darling This Congresswoman or That Thing or... This Pundit This Media Darling This Congresswoman or That MILF(soon to be Nevada Senator, um they aren't even bothering to poll anymore, sorry. That's what you get for f'ing with the American people Harry Reid) Clearly, the first set disgusts physically, intellectually, in every way possible and are either despised or ignored by the vast majority of Americans-> so says the polls, ratings, etc. The second set is widely popular and pleasant, both in terms of appearance and behavior->same polls, ratings, etc. Perhaps its time, once again, for blzurl to do a re-think? Because, once again, she's not even close. But, it's nice to see the Wrong Club is at it again.

Honestly? It fits in exactly as the nonsense deflection from my basic point that it is. While I agree that subjecting our economy to one set of standards, and subjecting Russia/India/China to... nothing, while talking about *GLOBAL* environmental concerns, and then calling us rich, stupid, and of course, evil, is perhaps the pinnacle of retarded discourse.... ...it doesn't change a damn thing about what I am saying about where, why, and how unions started, and the bastardization that has occurred that has them where they are now. Buddy, you are talking to a guy who, in his first job, had to build a system to track his own help desk calls, by time, standard, and quality of response to the point of ridiculousness(ISO 9003), and I was nowhere near the production line and had nothing to do with the product. I didn't even work at the damn company. I was consultant for pete's sake.....but....that client didn't care about: quality? WTF? Apparently you have never been through an ISO 9000 audit....oh, wait, that's right, you work for the government, so, when it comes to quality, I suppose you know nothing. I might as well be speaking Swahili. Suggestion: please don't apply your experience(= 0) when talking about what "Business" cares about, or "quality" for that matter, you'll come off as less of an idiot.

Ok...and I am asking an honest question here: The implication is that Glenn Beck is a phony. So, if that's the case, how does a non-phony behave? If there was a hypothetical Benn Gleck, what would he do differently from Glenn Beck that would make him not a phony? Keep in mind, I am limiting this question to what is meant and said here. It is what it is. I don't want to hear nonsense about how I am a big fan of a guy, in Beck, that I couldn't care less about one way or the other. The limit of my interest lies in my question alone. So, if there was a Benn Gleck, who was a proponent of the above stated values, etc., what would he be doing/saying differently than Glenn Beck? (and, for crayonz, no, I am not doing anything that makes anyone a testee, or a teste. Speaking of that: perhaps wawrow is interested in this kind of testing?)

....and, I while I agree with everything you said about local radio... ....I hardly think the answer to nefarious corporate centralization....is government centralization...which by definition and track record is even more nefarious. I think the answer is: the free market. Look, everyone knows free radio sucks today. And, that is the point: it sucks, and its suckiness is slowly creating a vacuum, perhaps just a niche to start, but sooner or later there will be a viable business model for local radio to make a comeback. Who knows? Maybe you can start your own radio station, bash the corporate ones, differentiate and gain "coolness" from doing exactly that, and find yourself not doing bad at all in a few years. In my travels, I have encountered many cities that have their own radio stations that haven't been McDonaldsed. One of my favorites in Woodstock Also, in my travels I have found: Nothing gets to suck, and stay in business, for very long. Oh...except the Post Office, Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security...need I go on?

Also, regarding the Teamsters: I find it highly ironic that they complain about wages, threaten to strike, etc., get higher wages, and then complain about the price of the very goods they haul, like milk, going up....which of course causes the price of most other things to go up too. WTF do they expect to happen? Yet, every time, they haul out the tired, old, "standard of living" and "cost of inflation" arguments, when they want more money, again.

Premises for Unions when my grandfather helped start one in the 40's: 1. Only the best workers get to join, not everybody. Union status was earned, not entitled. 2. By definition, the union workers(see #1) had every right to demand more pay than non-union workers 3. If you didn't hold up your end of the deal, it's bye bye union card 4. Managers had a choice, hire the union, pay more, but, get a quality job done faster. 5. Based on 1-4, union labor had every right to say "hey, we are the guys doing the job, we want a cut, based on our performance" Premises for Unions now: 1. Everyone is forced to join the union, or is entitled to, regardless of how they work 2. Since everybody is paid the same, based only on time they have been there, not how well they work, the good worker has no incentive to do any better than the turd, and is often discouraged from standing out, lest he expose the turd for being...a turd. Experience is more about how to be a better turd, not good, worker. The younger worker does a better job for a few years, until the veterans wear them down. Of course there are exceptions, but, those are the guys you meet in the bar who say they retired early because they were sick of the turds, and consequently, the turd management that has also given up...due to the turds. 3. Nobody gets tossed, short of work abandonment, and even then, its a lawsuit, grievance process, blah, blah, blah 4. Managers have no choice, they have to take all the turds with the good workers....and they usually end up in the bar sitting next to the frustrated good worker. 5. The average union leader/organizer is looking to do a volume business, not stand up for the good workers. The concept of paying the best workers for the best work has been replaced by: if you show up relatively sober, you are entitled to more $ than you are worth, free health care, and "hey, slow down or you will work yourself out of a job, and, if I have to tell you again, we will throw you out of the union for working too hard"....because I get paid by the head, not by the quality of work. "Let me be clear": my grandfather was talking about unions, and what he worked for, being abused, and essentially over with, in the 80s. There simply is no incentive for a turd to do anything to improve. In fact, if anything, now its more about the the stud being turned into a turd. Spare me the anecdotes and platitudes: I have lived and seen this right in front of me, so, I have one of mine for every single one of yours. I can't help thinking that if things went back to the original set of premises, we would all have a much better view of unions. But, then again, historically, I also think that the big mistake was letting the CIO join the AFL. I think we can all agree that skilled labor, and the good workers involved, have every right to collective bargain no different that how any other association works on behalf of its workers. However, I also think that when we allow non-skilled labor to demand wages that the market doesn't support....we end up with factories in China, and again, no incentive for unskilled labor to improve themselves. When we let/force everybody to join the union, we end up with the teacher's union, the results we have, and the endless "just throw money at it" nonsense.

Bingo. But, they are fun to play with

Hehe... Cage match...to the death. 2 enter, 1 leaves I can think of a few here that I would love to see actually have to physically defend themselves for once.... ....instead of relying on others to do it for them, while, of course, they are critical of those defenders at best, and flat out lie about them at worst... ....it's my guess, and I am just riffing here , that we wouldn't have to listen to half the crap we do now.

New Republic(Democratic Mag) Article Hmm. So, what they are saying is: the thing that worked every effectively for Clinton, not only in terms of politics, but it terms of outcomes, is now dead. And, Dems in general are much better off because doing things from the far left makes it much harder to remove them, or, at the very least, compromise still leaves whatever is in question a left-leaning policy. And what I am saying is: talk about self-delusion. This guy says that health care reform is "narrowly opposed"? WTF? RCP has it at 50.2 against, with a 10.5 spread. Link Here CNN(of all media outlets) has it 59% against. Does he honestly believe that is going to go away? Oh right, we are talking about a Democrat here, so perhaps he thinks he can wish these numbers away? Last time I checked only having 40% support gets you Mondaled. But, we are supposed to believe in some "new math"? This appears to be the first article, and I anticipate many more to follow, that attempts to justify driving the Democratic party literally off a cliff. It will be interesting to see how many more of these "we shouldn't be afraid of how bad things are getting for us, because we have plenty of rationalizations" articles are written on the way down.

Frankly? I am FOR the government regulating the lives of every single person that CHOOSES to be on subsidized health care. Why? Because choices need to have consequences. We can't give something away for nearly free, and get nothing back on our investment. Per Ben Franklin: We need to motivate people to get off subsidized health care, not create a situation where they are comfortable in it. And, by regulating their behavior(food, exericse, no smoking, etc.), we are ensuring that the cost of the health care we are providing them is contained. The vehicle is simple: an RN committee is assigned to each person. The RN group creates a care plan on one side, to take care of whatever is wrong with them, and, on the other side, creates a "patient plan". If the patient isn't accountable to their plan, then they are taxed, and will continue to be, until the committee sees improvement. Piss testing, body fat measuring, VO2 max are all simply tests that cost little to measure how we are doing on the plan. Fundamentally, everyone, heavy drinking, fat-ass corporate people, as well as, pot smoking, lame-ass slackers, needs to realize that consuming health care services costs $$$. You can't expect to be able to live poorly, and not have to pay for it. So, this is merely an extension of that, and is the contrapositive: If you expect to not have to pay the full price for your health care, then you must also accept regulation of your life choices. Anybody who chooses to receive the benefits of their government daddy, must also agree to live by his rules. Freedom from slavery also means freedom from dependency. Those that support this idiotic health care plan have no problem with the government intruding into the lives of the people who have to pay for this, they should expect the same treatment regarding what they do with what is being given to them.

Right....so this: must have been your little brother posting with your account again huh? EDIT: Have to put it in college terms: You FAIL at having an argument, again!