OCinBuffalo

I cannot agree with this in any way whatsoever. We suffered through, light in the pants, "quick", "high motor", "zone blocking", offensive lineman from 2004-2010. Bill in NYC was right all along about that. The fact that we couldn't stop the pass over that time either? Well, I was right about that too. We couldn't run for power, we couldn't pass downfield, and we had to run JV football offense schemes as a result. Then, when we finally got the O line we needed, and could run for power, Chan was slow to recognize that, and it wasn't until halfway through the 2010 season that we started running Fred all over the place on people. No. No. and No. I don't want small O lineman. I want the biggest guy we can get, who can meet a set standard for quickness. I do not want to rely on our O line getting to a spot before their D line does, and hoping that we do that more times than not, and then everything comes down to finess and technique, and possibly losing the strength battle = roll the dice on every play. No. I want an off tackle play where the guard says, "I am going to go here, and I'm both big and strong enough to starting pushing everything that is near me this way, and not let anything get by me. The tackle next to me is going to be here, and he's going to do the same thing, but push the other way. It doesn't matter when you get there, because when we get to where we are going, we are going to push you out of there, anyway, and there ain't jack sh_t you are going to do about it". That is Buffalo football. And, when we actually do it, like we could have more often than we did the last 3 years, it wins games and it demoralizes the other team. We can destroy teams with the line we have, and Freddy/Spiller. All we have to do, is go out and do it.

Awesome. Trading down again would have killed me, never mind Buddy. Now that we are hearing, and soon will be seeing, if what we are hearing is to be believed, what we are about multiple teams moving up/taking QBs in the top of the 2nd? Imagine, if you will that we had traded down to say...Atllanta's pick at 30...everybody would have been saying "Best draft ever!" ...until... The Eagles, instead of the Vikings, traded up to the Pats* spot and took Manuel. (Or the Jets(less likley or very expensive), Jags, Browns) Then...what would be be said around here? You know: "Dammit! Belechick screwed us again. This FO is completely outlcassed by the Pats" You know that's what would be said, and what % chance would there be of that happening, exactly as I describe? Bill Continuing to prove why he is one of, if not the, most credible posters here.

The real test? IF the Browns, Jags, Eagles draft QBs. Or if, as i just heard on WGR, the Jets move up and draft a QB? Then it's F you media. The Bills made the best possible move they could have. You don't trade down to 22-32 so that one of those teams can trade up ahead of you and take your guy. If he's your guy, you don't tolerate even the slightest chance of that happening. The other part? Why the hell would you draft a non-QB at 8, and then what? You are now behind 3-4 teams that ALL need QB. Now, you have to give up more than they do, to trade back up into the first. Competing with teams in a seller's market, when they have a competitive advantage of position? That's F'ing retarded. Competing against nobody, getting your #1 guy, and picking up 2 extra picks in the process? That's expert skill. The media? I sincerely doubt that they've thought this through, properly. So, let's see what happens.

YES! We can have all kinds of fun with this: 1. EJ ducks a blitz from Hightower and throws a 70 yard TD...."But coach, that's not in the manuel"! (I'll be getting to work on a meme right away) 2. EJ reads through progressions...but they only rushed 4 , again, for the 4th time this quater, and he takes off and runs for the first down, untouched, to the sideline "RTFM!" (It's an IT thing we say, when people can't be bothered to learn the software we trained them on. Stands for Read The F'ing Manuel) There have been at least 5 links in this thread that have put EJM into proper "context". Especially the one about what he needs to correct, and how it can be corrected. Or, the sports science stuff. I love people that howl about context, but then turtle when things are actually put into proper context for them by others. I thought this was the football board. Did this thread get moved to PPP? You don't get it. The job here is to win the "I am knowledgeable" battle on the internet. How good your team is, or, God forbid, enjoying the fact, for 1 day, that your team finally took its shot a REAL playoff QB? Those don't matter. No, the only thing that matters is: "LAMP: I correctly called the first 14 out of 20 using my big board!" Can you name something that matters less? Try it. I have, and it's hard. The first thing that came to mind is North Korea's dead Dear Leader's bowling score. Yes! MOAR DOLPHIN FAIL!

so the Jags area, much like the Philly area, has every reason to disparage us, for taking the guy they were going to take, or, they have every reason to keep talking smack about all the QBs...because they don't want people to take one. This is the nutty season in the NFL. I don't care what anybody says until 2 weeks after the draft. Horsecrap. We caught a DC reporter purposely trying to tamper with Aaron Schobel, and his excuse was "i will lose access if I don't go along with certain stories the Redskins want out there". So spare me. Most of the sports media are worse then the political media in that regard. I will be plenty suspicious, especially when a media guy is trying to get in with a new GM. EDIT: Rememeber the Saints "we would have traded for Marshawn Lynch but the Bills wouldn't listen" story, right after he gashed them? Where did that "story" come from? How many diehard Bills fans had something nice to say about Frank Reich/Doug Flutie/Drew Bledsoe after they left Buffalo? Or Jim Kelly for that matter? Does that mean that none of those guys ever did anything good/never won games? Nah, see, now it there Did they laugh at Tebow, BEFORE he played a down in Denver? Oh I don't know, perhaps you should read the bolded headline that is right in front of your nose. Or, you can make use of...google.

Kool Aid? Does buddy play the games? Does he coach them? No. Did CJ Spiller put up Jim Brown #s, while only getting Kenny Anderson carries? Yes. Again, your argument is ridiculous. How many games did the Bills win in 1987? Did that make Jim Kelly a bad draft pick? Ridiculous. I've watched 3 games so far. I will watch more as time permits. So far: you have to be high if you think this guy will NEVER be an accurate QB in the NFL, isn't a leader, or isn't capable of winning big games at this level. He has ALL the physical tools, and the quickest release I've seen since Marino.

4 Bowl games, won them all, only guy to do that in college...but none of them were "big games"? I just did argue that.

You are absolutely high if you are questioning a draft pick who put up Jim Brown #s last year, while only getting Kenny Davis carries per game. Picks like CJ Spiller is how you win SuperBowls, not just games. Same thing with Dareus, same thing with Gilmore. Oh, and yeah, it was the rest of the NFL, and the media who panned the Spiller, Gilmore, and even Dareus, to a lesser degree, picks. I don't think this is bias. I think this is laziness. They are too lazy to bother with actually speaking with Buddy, Marrone, etc, beyond the 5 minute interview. So, they have no idea what we think or why. If most of them do that...then you have your "consensus"...of idiocy.

Hmm. I wonder how that jibes with the fact that Nassib is supposed to be their pick in the 2nd, and how that piece of info got leaked? A smoke screen...is supposed to be believable. Telling people the exact player you are picking...is not a smoke screen. It's a sign of a rookie GM(ahem, Jacksonville) and a media trying to get on his good side. So, the Jags, with their awful attempt at smoke screening Nassib...who were they thinking about picking instead? Geno? Tyler Wilson? Are they staying with Gabbert? I am always very suspicious of other teams media...especially when they are overly critical of another team's moves who have no rivalry or much to do with them. We rarely if ever hear our media talking about how badly the Jags drafted. We don't care. I can understand things like laughing at Tebow to the Jets, because that was just hilariously bad, and we'd already seen him play in the NFL. Btw, how many of those media people were laughing at Tebow to the Jets? How many were saying it out loud, on the air, in Jacksonville? None? When they can make fun of Tebow, on the air, for being awful, then they can talk about what the Bills do, and not before.

Or the one who has dominated all the measurables, combine, skill challenges, Sports Science tests....and is 1 of 2 QBs to win 4 consecutive bowl games, ever? That guy?

Were you around here for the CJ Spiller pick? Or better, were you on earth, and able to access the interent/watch TV for the CJ Spiller pick? The Bills were right, and yeah, the rest of the NFL was collectively wrong. WGR reminded me: McShay is still defending his grade on Maybin, and even came on their air and defended it even after the Jets had him. Consensus...does not mean...right. There is a wonderful example of this, being played out right now, and it's hilarious, but, I am not allowed to use it here, because it might hurt somebody's feelings. (Really, they will just be angry because it's...true, and it makes them look like the buffoons they are....but whatever)

Thing is: the Bills have been right about the 1st round...since Buddy has been in charge. The Bills, even for Dareus but to a lesser degree, were criticized loudly and longly, for all those 1st round picks...and all those people were horribly wrong.

Or how about this: http://www.phillymag.com/eagles/2013/04/12/qb-stock-watch/ which contains a direct quote from Ron Jaworski: As for Manuel, Jaws predicts that “at a minimum, I think we’ll see a team trade up into the back end of Round 1 to select him.”

Message boards/blogs not enough? Hows about an Eagles beat reporter: http://www.thereport...wn-in-nfl-draft with the headline: QB E.J. Manuel an option if Eagles trade down in NFL Draft too subtle for you? How about googling "eagles wanted ej manuel"?

Blogs, articles, tweets...whatever. There's no doubt that EJM was their guy in the second. It's all out there if you use your search engine properly. Or, are you saying that only the Bills have websites where Bills information is handily compiled for the use of Bills fans? A rumor is one thing. A guy telling all Bills fans to F off, because we took the Eagles QB, is another thing.

Look at any Eagle message board, or Jesus, any EJM video on youtube. They are telling us to F off, loudly and consistently. They aren't kidding. They are mad, bro. So many Bills fans, waking up this morning, without the slightest notion of the vitriol being spewed at them by Eagle fans. They know their team, and have been hanging on every word of their new GM, the same way we have been. They "knew" EJM was their guy in the 2nd round. EJM was their little secret, and we blew it up. Rather than taking somebody else at 8, and then having to trade back up into the first to get ahead of them, we traded down in the first, stayed ahead of them, and we get an extra 2nd for our trouble. The third swap, for me, is an almost irrelevant nod to the draft value chart, as is the 7th rounder.

Simple, really. The Eagles, ABSOLUTELY, and possibly the Raiders and Jags, had the same interest in Manuel that we did. They were too close to the late 20s, where the Bills would have traded down...and definitely too close to SF = they traded up to 18 to get the safety. If NOLA doesn't take vaccaro at 15, then we might have traded down to them. However, they just couldn't take the risk of drafting in the mid-late 20s. Cetainly not at 31. 16 was safe, and unless they thought they could go back to 22 and no farther, you stay where you are, and make sure nobody else dictates your choices. 16 means that those high 2nd round teams have to give up too much to get ahead of you. 23-32...and it costs a lot less.

Sooooo....it's merely a coincidence that this: happened? 8 points difference out of an average of 1639? Really? What are the chances of that of that being a coincidence? People who keep pretending that, on a trade with 0 duress for either side, the draft value chart isn't used? They are funny too. Notice I said "duress"? As in, if you are the Raiders: 1. you have $45 mil in dead cap space 2. your team sucks and you need drafted players badly...or it's get them from the street whilst expecting people to pay money to watch your games 3. everybody in the league, in the hall, and anyone who is watching on TV, knows 1 and 2 you can forget about getting fair value for your #3 pick. The wolves WILL be upon you. You take whatever you can get. That is the definition of "duress". So, before anyone starts, let's not try to use the Raiders as an example. We can ask "why didn't the Dolphins get the LT"?, all we want, but, we cannot say that they didn't steal the guy they got. No, the trade value chart is alive and well. It's demise, "because the league has changed "? That is the myth.

Ok I just watched the Orange Bowl game. EJM was literally flawless. Now you can say this and that about N. Illinois, but, they were ranked 15 and guess what...it doesn't matter. Why? Because: count mississipis from the time the ball is snapped to when it is out. Then see the ball get there, sometimes 30 yards, in half a second. Lawrence Taylor of 1984 could have lined up for N. Illinois, and it wouldn't have mattered. Detail: 1: http://www.youtube.c...n7SGt5c#t=1313s wicked, wicked play fake and then effortless pass for a first...then idiot fumbles it. 2: http://www.youtube.c...n7SGt5c#t=1626s I thought the knock on EJM was "he can't move laterally". If so, then what exactly was this? It wasn't a roll out. It was a sprint out and throw the ball while still on the move. I really don't understand the "can't move around in the pocket" after watching this game. 3. http://www.youtube.c...n7SGt5c#t=1699s If #1 wasn't proof enough, here it is again. Ball fake, effortless pass on a rope, exactly on target. So far I haven't seen a pass that wasn't caught or should have been caught. There was 1(one) that he threw away due to pressure. The "accuracy" knock looks to be ludicrous. 4. http://www.youtube.c...n7SGt5c#t=2463s Important play here. Bad snap, no panic, just handles it and gets back to the LOS. 5. http://www.youtube.c...-6JSYZq8#t=156s "1 mississippi, 2 missippi", out, accurate 10+ yard pass, and 1st down. Again, you can rush anybody, but if that ball is out in 2 seconds and is that accurate, there's nothing they can do. 6. http://www.youtube.c...-6JSYZq8#t=382s Ok here's a potential problem. Is this manuel not knowing the protection, not seeing the defense, a bad line call by the center, or is it just...the LT completely F'ed up? I don't know football well enough to be sure, but I think it's the last one. However, I do see Manuel shift the RB away from the blitzer. Gotta think if he recognized the defense, he wouldn't have done that. He still almost made the throw in spite of getting his legs taken out. 7. http://www.youtube.c...-6JSYZq8#t=690s How easy did that look? 8. http://www.youtube.c...6JSYZq8#t=1886s Nice EJM plays in a row here: 1. check down 2. decent run 3. hit a slant in a tight window first down, nice post pattern hit the runner in stride(isnt' this guy supposed to be bad at anticipation throws? the wtf was that?) 4. busted play and EJM escapes pressure and hits his guy for 7 yards 5. wr screen pass to flat 1 missippi, gone, first down 6. sound awareness of the clock as soon as the run gets stuffed he calls timeout 7. nice pass to where only his WR can get it...TD. Manuel was 6-6 on that. They started that drave at 3:57 on the clock. If that's not the perfect example of how you run a 4 minute offense, I don't know what is. This is not a "waste" pick McShay . 1. This guy can play the game, and clearly has the skill set to be elite. It all depends on how hard he works, and how well he is coached. 2. Don't try to tell a Bills fan about who is accurate, and who is not, we've had an object lesson in it for years. I saw WRs running after the catch, because they had been hit in stride, all over the place, for the entire game. I haven't seen football played this way(because I NEVER watch college, ever, and I only watch the Bills), in a very long time. 3. But the most damning thing for McShay? How in the hell do you have "slow eyes", when you are getting the ball out in 2 or less seconds, every...single..time?

ahh...quantifiable data...me likey. Especially the head to head....and double especially about the Luck stats. Now, is McShay, when he says he hates the pick...denigrating his own network's Sports Science people?

Yes. EJ "Board Crasher" Manuel. Right pick, wrong pick or whatever...regardless of how he plays... EJM will be the first player I've ever seen drafted, who literally crashed the board. I am happy that we traded down. I am scared that EJM won't be able to execute in the pro game, but, I am equally excited by the possibility that he is one of those, frustrating, guys that plays at the level he is at, and as that level gets better, so does he.

Yes, Nanker with the expert skill....

Edit: 3 different ways to go with this drivel, take your pick, as any of them alone is the "short post" that you covet, and any of them sufficiently refute this nonsense. 1 It's the behavior of radical Muslims that defines them, and not some label that bigots attach to them or their religion...sure. Of course. But, it's also what is literally written in the books. You are telling us ignore the words that are written...when so many Muslims, in various degrees from militant to mostly harmless, don't ignore the words. Why the double standard? Or is the reason we should ignore the words: by some wild interpretation, you can extrapolate a similar meaning from another religion, and call that "the same" when all you have to do is read the words, literally, in the Koran? The other thing to keep in mind: Islam has instructions for how to deal with Big Religion, because Big Religion already existed. That the other religions don't have "how to deal with the competition" sections....should tell you something. Yeah, if you are 100% about uplifting humanity and bringing them closer to God, you don't care, and don't spend any time on "feature comparison". Islam does. Islam is unique in that it's founder is the only one that ran around conquering people. Coincidence? How is that "the same"? ....... 2 How about this: we treat everybody based 100% on how likely they are to take the Koran(or their subsequent prophecies), the Bible, etc., literally, and ensure that, for those that adhere strictly, their choice of behavior isn't allowed to infringe on anyone's human rights, and, that we keep that group of people on a very short leash? It is their choice, but, their right to their choices doesn't mean we lose our right to make our choices, based on theirs. Given that, who will we end up having the hardest time with? But, shouldn't it be "the same"? ....... 3 Radical Islam is about political gain. When I say political gain, I'm not referring to "using gay marriage to raise money from Hollywood". No, I mean old-school political gain, as in "taking territory and enslaving people under a despotic Caliphate". Radical Christianity is about abortion, and "No Adam and Steve". Radical Islam is about war and genocide for political gain. But they are the same, for no other reason than: because you say so?

Barack Obama is saying that for 1 reason only: The environtologists have rapidly decreasing clout, but, they do have some $ remaning. President Obama wants that cash, because he knows that he needs to get it, immediately, before it goes elsewhere. He also needs that cash, now, because the 2014 outlook is also rapidly declining. A causal persual of RCP's home page says as much, and it's liberals who are saying it, so spare me the "link?". In as little as 6 months, it will be exceedingly difficult to raise any money for any DNC Congressional candidate. Yes, this is all about 2014 elections, as, EVERYTHING this President has been doing since January is ultimately about the 2014 elections. Why? Because the 2014 elections are Obama's only hope of not ending up as Jimmy Carter = a joke, and a warning, that ensures only moderate Democrats win primaries for the next 20 years. That is what the big Dem donors are most afraid of = Obama killing "activist government" as a concept, such that it doesn't matter who they nominate going forward, that person will ingore them even if they win. Obama has already proven that not only is the notion of going in and doing serious work with Congress distateful to him, it is also something he isn't any good at. Thus, the only chance he has, is to try and take the House. What he would actually do, himself, with full control again? Besides, nothing, and letting the Dem loons in Congress create aonother "Obamacare"? Yeah, that's a question for the ages, , because Obama has a 3.5% chance of winning the House.

After reading the OP, I am now here for 1 and only 1 reason: What is Frenkle saying?