MattM

That's hysterical--your own article actually names the Pats* as the team accused of doing this and is the only example provided, no other team is mentioned as videotaping opponents' signals! It's also well known that Banks is a Pats* homer; he lives in Boston and follows the Sox, so go figure where his NFL allegiances lie. That's probably where he got the information for this article on cheating--from his Cheatriot sources! He and Peter King (who now also lives in Beantown) knob gobble New England and Belicheat worse than just about anyone to the point it's been known to makes an objective observer physically ill on occasion.

"Past performance is no guarantee of future returns, as they say in my business. An aging team generally (although that's nothing that some old HGH can't cure, just ask Rodney), an unproven secondary (they're only proven players there are old guys), an O-line that got exposed in the SB, a QB who may or may not come back all the way, running backs on the wrong side of 30 (HGH might help these guys, too) except Maroney the bust, linebackers slow as dirt, for some starters. Don't get me wrong--I don't think they're going 1-15, I just don't think they're the elite team they were or that their fans think they are." To make it easy on you, here's where I gave my opinion as to why they won't be dominant going forward. I added to this in other posts above as well, but here's just one example of "responding to your post" as I was accused of not doing.

Links, please, showing that "everyone does it"? I provided a link, which included multiple quotes from League sources, to back up my point--where are yours? Just like a Pats* fan to level the charge that "everyone else cheats" so it's not a big deal, but then have no evidence to back it up. Not saying you're a Pats* fan, but that is exactly the arguments that their delusional bandwagon fanbase trots out, without any evidence. An interesting comparison is Bills fans' reactions to Lynch's suspension. He, too, was caught doing something wrong and was punished, in some ways more harshly (so far, depending on the results of his appeal) than others who'd done worse (Brandon Marshall anyone?), but you don't find masses of people here griping about how unfair his punishment was. Compare that to the crap you'd find last year on Pats* fan boards about Spygate, where they all acted as if the league was out to screw them and just them, despite massive evidence to the contrary (like Goodell's destroying the evidence on their behalf and Goodell being a choice of Kraft's for commissioner.) Please read above where I've given the reasons for why, IN MY OPINION, which history may show is right or wrong, I think that the Pats* will not be as dominant a team as they were in the past. I also think it's funny that folks defend them as some kind of "dynasty" when they haven't won a Lombardi in going on 5 years ,while the Stillers have won two since then. Their fans should also wonder why they alone are hated League-wide--travel from coast to coast and you'll find Pats* haters. It has nothing to do with being a "dynasty" and "all dynasties are hated, which is the line they inevitable trot out". I myself admire and like the Steelers and Colts--classy organizations that do build from within with humble and likeable coaches and, in the Rooney's case, owners, unlike New England. The reason people hate the Pats* is their a-hole coach and his proven cheating ways and "win at all costs, right or wrong" mentality, their obnoxious owner (trademarking "19-0, the Perfect Season" before they had won that last all-important game?) and their bandwagon, moronic fanbase (they had 19,000 season ticket holders in the early '90s, in a city 5 times Buffalo's size). I'd also have to add Brady's arrogance and obnoxiousness to the list after reading that Esquire article last fall, in which he talked about running up the score on us, among other things (karma had a funny way of correcting him after he gave that interview, no?)...... I'm through trying to talk sense to someone who obviously has a soft spot in his heart for the Cheatahs despite reams of evidence to the contrary. Game. Set. Match......

THAT I could have spelled....

Pats* Fan Since 2001 and D*mn Proud of it, I'm sure. I swear, I've never seen a bigger group of smug *ssholes in my life. It's going to be fun watching them tank one of these years. Wait a second, it's BEEN fun watching them tank since that Giant Super Bowl! Worst choke job EVER! This past season was a lot fun, too, being a "dynasty" and all, but still not making the playoffs. Changing the subject is the only thing he's an expert at, since he keeps doing it every time he gets smacked around here.....

"Mucilage" got me in the County Jr. High Spelling Bee in 7th grade. Never heard the word used before or since (and I'm in my 40s.) The word the girl who won got after me? "Academy". There is no justice.....

You want to talk about mighty drafts--how about the Colts a couple years ago having NO ONE in their starting line up who had ever played for another team. That's talent evaluation.....

Way to change the subject, dude. We weren't talking about the Bills drafts--we were talking 'bout the "mighty Patriots"* and their last few "mighty drafts", drafts that really garnered them no one but Mayo, IMHO. They're living on their drafts from earlier this decade (you know, the decade I'm sure you started following them--probably a Cowboys fan before 2001) and Bob Kraft's wallet (which I suspect may be shrinking by the day, since his other business is a paper company (think Dunder Mifflin) in an increasingly electronic age and since Patriot Place is a bust in this down economy). Say what you will about our drafts since 2006, but I'd take ours over yours any day of the week, and I'm not saying that as a Bills homer, just looking at the players themselves. A few more drafts like the last few and with Brady and Moss each being 32 and I'd say you guys should be levelling out at 8-8 in within two to three years. Maybe that's why Bob really wants to go uncapped next year, so that he can continue to buy the talent he can't seem to draft any more..... PS As for Ngata, I wanted the Bills to draft him way back when (he or Bunkley), but since he went mid first round, I'd guess that means that half the league passed on him, too, no?

Yeah, they "drafted" those guys, didn't they? Please read above before posting, moron.....

You sure you're not a Pats* fan? That anti-Colts riff gives you away every time--the Pats* are about the only folks on earth who seem to have something against Dungy. That Starcaps stuff is garbage--from what I've read even if it was drunk in the Bills locker room all of the occurred in 2002 before the problem ingredient in Starcaps was banned. You didn't really respond to that NYT article (which contained actual quotes from actual NFL execs) too well, did you? Let's see some links, for ex., to those "rumors" about the Colts or about how "virtually all teams cheat".....

Actually, to any objective fans, I doubt it. Mayo's the only decent player you've picked in the last three years of drafting.....

Go back up a bit and look at the 2006 and 2007 drafts (which contain a decent number of folks either not longer playing for the Pats* or not even in the League any more) and tell me they had good drafts with a straight face. The facts don't bear that out.....

Past performance is no guarantee of future returns, as they say in my business. An aging team generally (although that's nothing that some old HGH can't cure, just ask Rodney), an unproven secondary (they're only proven players there are old guys), an O-line that got exposed in the SB, a QB who may or may not come back all the way, running backs on the wrong side of 30 (HGH might help these guys, too) except Maroney the bust, linebackers slow as dirt, for some starters. Don't get me wrong--I don't think they're going 1-15, I just don't think they're the elite team they were or that their fans think they are. As for your question on the draft--I did answer that and I don't think you ever answered me. As noted above, Welker and Moss don't count, as they weren't drafted by the Pats, but were ID-ed long after their playing careers started. I do give the Pats* credit for giving up a 2 for Welker and recognizing his talent, but again, that was after he'd played 2-3 years in the League. As for Spygate being overblown, I believe the contrary--they push the envelope far more than anyone else and were not caught for most of what they do. http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/11/sports/f...2007&st=cse "The N.F.L. team executive said the Patriots were the subject of most of the accusations discussed in the rules committee’s deliberations. The team’s recent success and tight-lipped approach, as personified by Belichick, has played a role. “They were the only team, really,” the executive said. “Clearly, they were the team mentioned far more than anybody else.” or "The committee heard accusations that the Patriots had taped opposing coaches’ signals, placed microphones on defensive players to steal quarterbacks’ audible signals and manipulated clocks and coach-to-quarterback radio systems." Tip of the iceberg, my man, tip of the iceberg--why, just look at all of the suspicious calls in their games over the years, just in their games against us alone, not to mention things like the Tuck Rule or the AFCCG vs. the Colts.....

Listening to their fans (are you one in disguise?) you'd think they were undefeated since 2000 and walk on water to boot. I've never met a more arrogant bunch. Funny how the Stillers have won two since the Pats* won their last Lombardi, but you never hear their fans crow about how they're basically unbeatable. I honestly wonder why that is, now that I mention it--must be something in the Boston bandwagon water. As Easterbrook pointed out, people wanted to go to New England for a chance at a ring and cheating helped them with that chance and therefore unlevelled the playing field. How much of their winning was accomplished via smoke and mirrors (and videotape and beyond, since it's well documented that they're suspected of more than just Spygate) I suspect we'll never know for sure. On my last parenthetical point, check out a great article in the NYT from May of last year in which several members of the NFL Competition Committee basically came out and said that most of the complaints they got each week regarding teams being unethical or suspected of cheating were about New England.....

Two out of their last three drafts before this year's (2006 and 2007) have stunk, actually, and that was with Dimitroff (now Falcons GM) and/or Pioli (ditto, KC). Last year's class had Mayo, a 2nd round CB most pundits thought was a 4th round reach (Wheatley), a 3rd round LB (Crable) who didn't play a down (even before going on IR mid-season) and who now sounds like he's in Belicheat's doghouse, a 3rd QB (O'Connell) who didn't play a meaningful down (not a big surprise for a QB ), but who many also thought was a reach last year, a 4th round CB (Wilhite)that some thought was better than the 2nd rounder, but who also didn't do much before getting injured IIRC, a 5th rounder (Slater) who all I remember about him is fumbling on a kickoff return last year and a 6th rounder they cut this week (Ruud). Outside Mayo (who I also think is a bit overrated, but is a good player), I ain't exactly shaking in my boots.....

Welker I'll give them credit for, but the Moss deal was an obvious example of the rich getting richer since he only would approve a deal to them, so it isn't like the Bills or anyone else could have made that trade even if they'd wanted to. Gregg Easterbrook wrote a good article during Spygate on how cheating to win had ancillary benefits for the Cheatahs, like free agents taking below market deals to go there. Moss is the primo example of that as was Fred Taylor this year. I strongly suspect, however, that we'll see less of this in the future, as their success peters out. I'll go out on a limb right now and call that the Pats* of the future will be nowhere near as successful as the Pats* of the past--their recent drafts being evidence of this, as well as their aging roster and the large number of FA's they need to re-sign in the next one to two years......

Only problem with your argument about their last few drafts is that a large number of those guys either are no longer on the Pats* or not even in the League anymore, so arguments about having trouble getting past entrenched starters is bunk. Their last three drafts have stunk, IMHO, with Mayo being the sole exception (I'm not sold at all on Meriweather personally, despite the stats) but since they're the Pats* the League and its critics knob gobble them. For a more balanced view, check out Pete Prisco's recent review of the 2006 draft--the Bills got a B plus and the Pats* a D.....

I'm very sorry to hear that. Add my thoughts and prayers as well to Mr. Wilson and his family. As the Bandit noted, I can't imagine the sorrow it must be to outlive one's child, at any age.....

Yeah, if you call three tackles and fumble recovery being eaten alive. Other than the fumble recovery, sounds like a pretty avg day for a Nose Tackle. UL couldn't run the ball worth anything that day, true (1.8 avg), but not sure if that was all on Wood. BTW, Kentucky couldn't either, averaging 1.9 ypc, FWIW (maybe not much).

Laugh at me all you want, but go back and look at the Pats* drafts those two years and you'll see that we actually drafted better than they did in that stretch. Mayo is the only really good player (a bit debatable after one year, but giving him the benefit of the doubt here) they've selected in the last three years of the draft (aside from Gostkowski maybe).....

For all the Pats* ball washing over their drafts, go look at the last three--nothing too special, if you ask me. Besides Mayo, there is no one who really stands out from them. Maroney's a bust and Merriweather's average. Beyond that even, there's really nothing there. Admittedly, it's tough to find a starting spot on that team for young players, but you'd still have thought that some of them would have made the "Big Leagues" by now if they were any good, especially from 2006-7. Remember, too, that that was all with both Pioli and Dimitroff--neither of whom are with the Pats* any more. Time to see if the genius drafts of 1999-2005 were the work of Belicheat or others.....

I found this interesting--a quote from Ellis Hobbs on his trade today: On whether he has talked to anybody about his contract and if that is why he was traded: “I think with that situation [in New England] there are a lot of guys that are coming up that are going to need to be paid. I think it has kind of moved from that echelon where there is a lot of guys out there who are not going to take the [bottom] dollar for the win. Guys really want to get what they deserve and each one of those guys that are coming up in the next year or so deserve every dollar they are going to get. I think that with the roster like we had, there were so many guys that needed to be paid, somebody has to move out of the way. Unfortunately and fortunately it was me and like I said I am looking forward to the future.” http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patr..._hobbs_cal.html Perhaps the old saw about people going to New England for the championships has lost a little luster since they haven't won one in a while--maybe that old "championship discount" stuff is starting to wear a little thin on some players, perhaps? One can hope.....

Isn't that where he played in college?

Keiaho and Brooks.....

I'm not too sure where all this Pats*' draft love is coming from--check out their last three drafts (and that was with Pioli and Dimitroff, both since gone) and the only difference maker they've drafted has been Mayo. I personally don't think Merriweather has distinguished himself all that much and that Maroney is a bust, but others could differ on those--beyond that, however, I don't think there can be much disagreement that no one else they've taken those years has contributed or is ready to do so. They seem to save themselves every year with the older guys they'd previously taken (think Wilfork, Brady, Mankins, Koppen, Seymour, Warren, etc) and the new guys they bring in in other ways, like FA, like Thomas, Harrison, Vrabel, Moss and Welker. I do like their stockpiling of picks every year, as I think it's smart of them to do that, but I'm really not too enamored of their recent draft record.....