MattM

My wife and I are going to try to go--we need to head into the city to catch some friends for dinner in the theater district at 7:30, so I figured may as well kill two birds with one stone.....

Not to beat a dead horse too much, but it occurred to me in looking at our current proposed starters that this team could have been a ton better and a sure fire playoff contender if they had simply found a way to keep Peters, draft Maybin, trade our second and third to move up to take Eric Wood late in the first and then use our 4th to take Nelson. We wouldn't have Byrd or Levitre, but our O-line would have been a (hopefully) happy Peters, Wood, Hangartner and, most importantly, Butler and Walker playing their natural positions. Two new guys on the line, but both improvements over last year, and three other better linemen at their normal spots. We'd also have addressed our other two major needs, DE and TE. Tell me that that team wouldn't have playoff potential written all over it. My fear this year is that with 5 guys playing new positions, Trent is going to spend more time on his back than....well, this is a family board, so I won't go there. When the Bills traded Peters, I originally was pretty happy about it, in that I figured they must have "cash to cap" budgeted about $8-10m for him that would then be freed up to go get a LT and/or OLB. Personally, I expected them to at least sign one of Pisa or Levi, if not both. They've done neither, which makes me wonder how serious they were with their numbers for Peters and getting a real deal done. Frustrating, but that seems to come with the territory of being a Bills fan these days......

NBC News did a little tribute to him on their broadcast last night. Made me realize how much I miss him on "Meet the Press" every week. The world is a bit of a sadder (and less informed) place without him.....

Now that's funny!

Brandon's also a Fisher grad, so that might help keep it in Roch as well. No argument here--I grew up in ER, less than 2 miles from the camp and my mom still lives there, so I go every summer when I get back to visit family/friends....

I always liked TKO, and still do. It is indeed too bad how his career here ended.

Ding, ding, ding--we have a winner, folks! Straight on correct here--the NFL is becoming closer and closer to MLB every year in terms of an uneven economic playing field, and the big market owners who now control the League with the Commish they selected will make sure it keeps moving in that direction.....

I think you may be thinking of Boomer's. It was on 75th and Amsterdam. I used to watch the games there myself in the mid-90s when I lived in that 'hood. I recall once even watching the game with Phil McConkey, who I didn't recognize until some time in the third quarter when he said after a particularly vicious hit, "they didn't hit like that in my days in the League, wow!". As some of you may recall, he's actually from Buffalo and is apparently quite a Bills fan (to the point of telling me he'd root for the Bills over the Giants in the SB).

Only half joking, but before I paid Wilfork huge bonus/guaranteed money I'd be at least a little worried that what goes around comes back around and he suffers some kind of career ending knee injury on a cheap shot by someone he's cheap shotted in the past or some young guy trying to make a name for himself (hello, Wood and Levitre?) by retaliating for that POS's prior dirty tricks. Not that I'd endorse that--I don't root for injuries, even to jerks like Wilfork. That said, I wouldn't shed too many tears if he got some of what he dishes out to others. No way I'd want him on this team, BTW, either. What I hope happens is that he does indeed hold out, causing big distractions and then, like Peters, comes back in no shape to play. Wholeheartedly agree on the quoted part as well--he'd no longer be under Kraft's protective umbrella once he takes of that Flying Elvii and I suspect he knows that as well......

Edwards QB rating was 17th in the League last year--look it up. That reallly makes him an awful third round pick from 2007, wouldn't you say? Guys behind him have names like Delhomme, Favre and, oh yeah, Roethlisberger, among others. That as a second year player. The guy's won slightly more than he's lost, that with a pretty mediocre team behind him. In case you haven't noticed, QB's don't play the games by themselves. See the Denver game or the Redskins game in his ROOKIE year, where he lead the team back late to win, for cases where he's showed poise and leadership. Will he be a Pro Bowler in 2-3 years? Who knows, but he's certainly a heck of a third round draft pick, no? As for Whitner, what I was citing way above was another thread this week that included a link to a Sporting News article that had Whitner as the 8th rated safety and Merriweather the 17th--look it up. On Poz vs. Mayo, way to change the argument when it goes against you--even a Pats fan said that Poz would start ahead of Tedy (your original statement being "no way would Poz start over Tedy or Mayo"). Mayo is a good player (I still say a bit overrated, but that tends to happens to players in NE), but so is Poz. See your own Tim Graham quote on that. I'm through debating with you--you bring a meanness to your illogical arguments that is almost ragelike. Chill out, dude, or get out more.....

We'll see how he does in Cinci. Thanks for joining the conversation--as you'll see, we don't mind here when intelligent fans from other teams (even the Pats!) want to come over and chat.....

As noted way above, "lining up against" means compared to, since that was the idiotic premise of how you proposed to compare drafts, ie. who did we draft who could start on the Pats*. Really a false way to look at things, but I played along. It is moronic to say that Edwards was not a high value draft pick because he can't beat out a Hall of Fame QB. How is a QB who most neutral observers admit is better than at least 7-8 other starting QBs in this League in his second full year (and even better from a pure stats line I'd wager) and was picked in the third round in 2007 not a very good draft pick? I cited a neutral observer's view on Whitner over Meriweather--did you? That 1 sack and 1 interception of Poz's were one more than your boy Mayo had last year in those measurables that we have access to and that are the most widely used. Ever think that Mayo may have had better stats since he played behind one of the best D-lines in the League and one of the best NTs (even if he is a dirty player)? That ever cross your mind? Certainly helps to make plays in the backfield when your D-line can neutralize the O-line. Even so, Poz's numbers (since that's all we've got here to go by largely) stack up respectfully against the ROY and there's no denying that.

Point taken, but I think that goes more towards Pioli's talent analysis as GM than, for ex., your college scouting dept. I will give you a lot of credit for Welker, but not quite as much for Moss, since Randy would only go to the Pats* apparently and he really controlled the trade via his cap number and taking a pay cut. On Bruschi, I agree with you (or your agreeing with me). Don't know too much about Guyton other than seeing him fill in some last year. Didn't seem to grab me too much since, as noted above, I watched a lot of your games last year. Someone like Maulaluga might have been a nice fit for you this year, but we'll see how he does in Cincy.

On Edwards, I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about, but think that my post you quoted pretty squarely sums up what I meant. I'll still take Whitner over Meriweather (who, yes, I've seen play quite a number of times, having DTV and a DVR--I catch at least parts of most Pats* games, actually). Safeties have run support duties as well in most Ds, BTW, the emphasis depending on the team and system. Go back and read your original post--you seem to dispute whether Poz would start over either Mayo or Tedy. I think he'd clearly start over Bruschi at this stage in Tedy's career. I think most neutral folks would agree with me. Bruschi may not even start himself this year, I suspect. My biggest grip with Poz is that he seems to find himself out of position too often. Don't know if that's due to playing his first year in the NFL or what. That said, I've also seen Mayo out of position and as noted, Mayo's stats aren't all that different than Poz's and, as noted, he has fewer "impact plays". That's what I originally meant by "being a tad overrated". I seem to remember days when a "good or very good" LB was expected to contribute 3-4 sacks, to go along with 2-3 picks and a FF or two..... The Pats* may indeed be playing in January while our boys are at home, but I strongly doubt that the difference is because they drafted better than we did in 2006-8, as was the original point in contention.

Thank you--I was was waiting for someone to get that.....

The question here is who had a better draft over the last three years--of that I'm very confident that neutral observers would give that to the Bills hands down (perhaps on the 2007 draft alone--Lynch, Poz, Edwards). That said, I also stand by what I said above on your criteria for how to judge a draft (based on who on our team could start on theirs). Bruschi's washed up. Springs is also 32 years old and injury prone versus the top CB picked in the draft last year and who showed flashes of talent late in the season on D (despite what the Pats* might have thoughts in Dec.). Whitner may not have the gaudy INT stats, but that's because he spends a lot more time in the box than Meriweather. If you don't understand the point I made about the Bills getting credit for drafting Edwards in the third round then I don't know what to say to you, other than to send you back to logic class (which I doubt you ever took). "Lines up" was a figure of speech--you were trying to say that the Bills shouldn't get credit for drafting Edwards since Edwards plays the same position as Brady and Brady is better than Edwards, none of which has any bearing on whether or not Edwards was a good draft pick. Interestingly, since you keep bringing up Mayo, Poz actually had more "impact plays" (FF, INT, sacks) than your ROY (and Bruschi, for that matter) did last year--you do realize that, don't you?

Not really--I stand by Fingon's views myself as to who would start. I'd also say that McKelvin might start over Springs or Bodden (Springs more likely than Bodden--if for no other reason than Springs might not be healthy (again)) and Poz over an aging Bruschi. Remember, for all intents and purposes Poz was a rookie last season,too. Notice that Tedy had not sacks, FF or INT's last year vs. Poz's two such plays. In addition, Paul's numbers weren't all that far off Mayo's, either (although admittedly system differences make a direct comparison tough). Whitner over Merieweather/Sanders is a no-brainer, despite how much ribbing Whitner gets here--don't believe me check one of the earlier threads this week that had a Sporting News article with DW as the 8th best safety in the League versus 17th for Brandon. It's also unfair to dismiss the drafting of Edwards, who most neutral observers agree was a steal of a pick in the third round two years ago and has the potential to be a good NFL QB, simply because he lines up against Brady. I stand by my statement that our drafts were better than the Pats* the last three years and I think that most neutral observers would agree with that.

Homerism aside, I'd take the Bills last three drafts over New England's hands down. The point about Pioli and Dimitroff is that both of those guys were (at least at one time) great personnel men and they're now gone this past season when Brace was drafted. That said, they themselves didn't do very well from 2006-8, either. I hear your argument that it's tougher to make (and make an impact on) a better team, but even with that, I don't think the Pats* have drafted well at all lately, which will come back to haunt them in the near future. Just my opinion. I think the mistake many people (including, and especially, the media) make is to base current actions not by themselves in isolation, but to instead project on those actions the results of similar actions by people in the past, to wit, "the Pats* have drafted well in the past, their current draft full of reaches must by definition then be great even though it looks like crap to me, but what do I know" instead of independently analyzing it on its face. Much easier to just do the former I suppose, but perhaps less likely to lead to correct results. Time will tell......

I'd actually say this is the post that hits the nail right on the head, personally. Lots of those guys aren't even on the Pats* any more and a decent number aren't even in the League. Compare that to their admittedly fantastic drafts earlier this decade and they are drafting like shells of their former selves and, as noted above, that was WITH Pioli and Dimitroff (their former head of college scouting, who became Atlantas' GM (i.e, the guy who took Ryan last year) in 2008).

Here you go--you make the call, but from where I sit, there's no one really there (other than perhaps Mayo, who I thought was a tad overrated last year) that excites me. Maroney had the potential, but he's a shell of his rookie self lately. With Meriweather, I can't get over watching him get torched in the Super Bowl, particularly on that last drive (even more in particular on a key play that let the G-Men get a key first down right before they scored--he got screened right out of the play on that Steve Smith catch). 2008 1.10 LB Jerod Mayo Tennessee from NO 2.31 DB Terrence Wheatley Colorado 3.15 LB Shawn Crable Michigan from NO 3.31 QB Kevin O'Connell San Diego State 4.30 DB Jonathan Wilhite Auburn 5.18 WR Matt Slater UCLA from TB 6.31 LB Bo Ruud Nebraska 2007 1.24 DB Brandon Meriweather Miami from SEA 4.28 DL Kareem Brown Miami 5.34 OL Clint Oldenburg Colorado State compensatory pick 6.06 LB Justin Rogers Southern Methodist from ARI 6.28 DB Mike Richardson Notre Dame 6.34 RB Justise Hairston Central Connecticut compensatory pick 6.35 OL Corey Hilliard Oklahoma State compensatory pick 7.01 LB Oscar Lua Southern California from OAK 7.37 OL Mike Elgin Iowa compensatory pick 2006 1.21 RB Laurence Maroney Minnesota 2.04 WR Chad Jackson Florida from GB; trade 2006 2.20, 3.11 3.22 TE David Thomas Texas 4.09 RB Garrett Mills Tulsa from DET 4.21 K Stephen Gostkowski Memphis 5.03 OL Ryan O'Callaghan California from OAK 6.22 DL Jeremy Mincey Florida 6.36 OL Dan Stevenson Notre Dame compensatory pick 6.37 DL Le Kevin Smith Nebraska compensatory pick 7.21 DB Willie Andrews Baylor

How about when they traded Spikes or, better yet, when they got two thirds plus for McGahee, who now may not even start. Those thirds turned into Edwards and the better part of Stroud, IIRC.......

Kind of like the Bills in drafting McKelvin when they knew they'd lose Greer, no? Or just about anyone else in that situation--like the Chargers taking that OLB early this year since they might lose Merriman even though they're stacked at the position? Other teams do the exact same thing all over the League. I hope they let Fatboy walk personally, since (a) while he is a POS dirty player, he is one of the top DT's in the League, and (b) their drafts have indeed sucked the big one the last three years (and that was with both Pioli and Dimitroff for most of those). Fatboy is the second most important player on their team, IMHO. They lose him in the middle and that D is nothing special at all. BTW, Seymour is a UFA next year, too, as is Logan Mankins (more big money due), so Richard may not be around next year, either--who was the replacement for him they drafted again? From what I've read, literally something like 25-30% of their team are FA's next offseason......

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patrio...ork-speaks.html My only bet on this situation is that the media will report this and the Pats*' reaction to it as 180 degrees different than they did when it was the Bills doing the exact same thing--if/when Kraft refuses to pay Fatboy it will be hailed all over the sports media world as an example of "principles" vs. when Ralph does it "he's just being his usual cheap loser self".......

Especially since Roy Williams got suspended a game last year for a lot less (a couple of horse collars) than Vince's 4, count 'em, 4 fines that season. Then again, we all know who he plays for, so it wasn't really a surprise to me that he got nothing. "All animals are equal, it's just that some animals are more equal than others" as Orwell might have said in "Animal Farm"......

I'm not going to pretend I didn't want this guy as a Bill--I did and this hurts. I've seen enough of Ellison and he's a backup at best and God forbid he or anyone else should go down next year. The FO screwed the pooch on this one, IMHO......