Reed83HOF

The rioting and looting appear to happening after all hell breaks lose, from what I have witnessed first hand and from obliviously social media, the protesters are doing a good job of keeping people in check, there have been many people who tried to start breaking windows and were quickly stopped by the masses. Besides if you are looking to loot, large protests is like leaving cheese out for a rat. Upfront, everything should focus on the de-escaltion and be preventative. The curfews have been an utter disaster and have lead to a lot of unnecessary violence, arrests and injuries to everyone. I understand the need for the curfews, to a degree, because forces cannot stay out there 24/7. I truly believe most do, it's the actions that follow it, pulling people from cars, rubber bullets, tear gas and now it has turned into everyone against the system. The police and the system themselves have done themselves a huge disservice with the handling of all of it. They have put the cross-hairs firmly on themselves, right wrong or indifferent. Out here, if you want to laugh you should watch the clips for the LA police commission zoom meeting on Tuesday, those poor people took 8 hours of verbal dress downs from tons of people. They mentioned that to be an officer takes 600 hours of coursework,where as a cosmologist requires 1600 hours. Also if an officer is terminated, they can go to a town a couple towns away and reapply - there is no tracking mechanism for that and honestly, I'm not sure how I feel about that. The pay should certainly be higher, but I try to look at the whole picture. A lot of techniques are old tried and true, but that doesn't meant they are correct. The entire education/training needs to be looked at. Peer pressure has to be be awful for anyone to speak up, much like when players in sports get dragged for making the locker room public. Al biet to a much more serious and amped up degree. This is a discussion that has to be had, right now there is much larger of a focus to defund and dismantle these institutions right now based on the handling of this that is out there for the world to see. Nothing seems like an isolated incident

Look my whole feed is about the police brutality and aggressiveness, but I'm not damn well going to start anything with them. Saying excessive force starts to get into too many semantics around the word excessive and starting to pretend that "my life was in danger" that is not always the case, those really are rare situations. His whole twitter feed and his politics or lack thereof , have nothing to do with what happened to him, since that information was not available to police at the time, that is a null argument. Excessive (and seemingly unnecessary) force is more along this line to me The tactics used against the guy in Buffalo were too aggressive, especially given the subjects clear advanced age and he isn't a hulking or imposing figure. What has been shows honestly, around the country is the same techniques that are inappropriate for many situations, this one included. If the officers in question had actually stopped and showed a moral compass, this would not have gone to the level that it is.

We totally agree there and I apologize if I offended. I will say on the officers side, they are being overworked, put in very uncomfortable situations by the politicians from both parties and asking to make snap judgements. I think one thing all of us have seen is that the concept of de-escalation is a missing tactic. Once an engagement starts, it suddenly becomes very violent and that isn't how it should go and I understand that it is very tense out there. The role if you will of a police officer is to keep the peace and protect and serve all; not everything has to go to 0-100 in a second, but it does. All I am arguing is that more of that has to be on the officer as that is what their job is and the expectations that come with it - you all have to be good, just like a medical doctor. It almost feels like that the country as whole has too many officers that are littered through the various skill categores and not truly enough elite ones. A lot of these situations should never have to occur and it more or less is an officer's job to be able to keep the peace, which is far from easy and might be one of the most thankless and hardest jobs there are...

I gave you credit for bringing up a good point about the helmet, but this is nonsense. A reasonable assumption can be made that you are law enforcement or know people in law enforcement or even know the officer in question with the lengths you are going to here. Blaming a twitter feed and that cops had the ability to know he said F the police, implying that saying F- the police somehow eliminates your equal treatment under law (violating your free speech) and invalidates what the police's supposed to "serve and protect" all citizens implies. And then you call out that this may be a set up? Sorry dude your credibility is shot in regards to this thread.

Here is my point, none of this should be a political discussion at all. Now there can be dissection of the video, and making some judgments (correct or not) to fill in missing parts (what was said, etc).. I'm not saying all of that can just be tossed to the side, but the discussion should be more around the morality of this situation. Not everything has to be wrapped in blame based on one's political ideology, because that should have zero bearing on how any of this should be handled. What is a role of a police officer and what tactics are acceptable or not - you don't need politics or racism or anything to discuss that and to know what is right vs wrong...

Not who I was referring to, the officer's first thought should have been to de-escalate. I'm not sure where anywhere allowing a cop to do that is acceptable and that should be lower down the list of tactics to use against a 75 yr old. I have seen your post history, so your response is honestly not surprising...

How about this - do nothing and de-escalate the situation?

I stand corrected - good find! btw none of this still condones the police behavior as being overly excessive, granted I'm not sure we know what was being said either. Still there was a lot of indifference by the police as he lie there not moving and starting to bleed.

That context is missing and not known via video as far as i know. I am also trying and would like everyone here to keep it away from PPP and politics. I believe most individuals take issue with the fact that, I mean let's be honest he is an older guy, shouldn't have been pushed as hard as he was. You can easily make a case for an adrenaline rush with the officers, some level of exhaustion, but the most egregious part was when one of the officers went to go check on him, he was physically moved away by another officer and it iwas either the National Guard or state police who went to administer help; not one BPD officer stopped. There is zero excuse for that behavior; enforcing a curfew to arrest a guy with a sign, when they directly caused injury to a citizen is nonsense. The extra 5 minutes or even 2 officers out of the what 20ish there, would not have affectedthe guy holding the sign who would have still been there after curfew anyways. it's simply more pitiful police behavior.

he was bringing them one of their helmets back indeed wrong. You seem like one of the guys who protested the curfew for wearing a mask and the gov't violating your rights there; sit down fellow bills fan

or lack there of

heard during the la police commission zoom debacle (look it up its LMAO, but so sad at the same time) 600 hours to be a police officer and 1600 to be a cosmologist. Might be the ex-military hires, doing through profiles, the immunity from prosecution, strong unions in the cities with enough bad apples select bad leaders, DAs who won't file charges against officers, non-lethal rubber bullets and bean bags that do incredible damage and can be lethal, tear gas which is illegal in war - it is everything. Not trying to make this PPP

Please keep the officers names out of the thread until it becomes an official announcement Edit the names are out there now, there was no need to vilify until it was 100% confirmed; that is all

only because of the video, otherwise the original tripped and fell would have stood

original statement now that they know there is a video

hmmm Ruggs? Who would have thought

I'm sorry to hear that John. I haven't slept good all week and don't have much of an appetite (I'm eating, but meh). If he makes it out of it, the recovery road is going to be very long and tough. His lungs and heart are taking a beating from this damn thing. He went from being in a hospital bed on Monday morning showing no respiratory issues to being placed on a vent the next morning. This virus is nasty as hell

thanks man - it tough being in LA and having them back in Utica (like 2300 miles). Dad's Dr said the area is unprepared for it, he is really concerned. They have about 15 patients in ICU (my dad is one) and they devoted a whole floor as of yesterday dedicated to people who most likely have it, but are waiting for tests to come back. I have heard some horror stories from him from around that are in his general talks with us. Within 24 hours my dad went from feeling fine to the ICU with a Vent helping him breathe. This Sjit is nasty. I hope your mum is ok!

Sorry fellas, my old man has Covid and isn't doing too well at all. He is thankfully stable for now, but i have been on video conference calls with his Dr.s and my sisters too many times each night to count and making sure my mom is ok from exposure to him and such. Everything has happened so quick. I lost sight of all of this - please accept my apologies.

down for whatever you want to give me

WR makes a lot of sense for them, but if one of the top OTs is still there, they have to make that their pick. The Jests OL is just awful and the next set of OT talent is much worse than WR. JMO

He is too busy drinking Bleach