Reed83HOF

49ers/Chargers are possibilities as well... We seem to forget that here They are like 43-21 or 41-23 since Reid has been there. 11-5 or 10-6

This is missed so much, because people focus on value of the picks. In the top 10-15 of the first you should be going after game changers, players who play a position that are directly tied to wins and losses and can have a huge impact on the success of your team. You are drafting not only for demonstrated skill but for Potential as well. The 2 positions most directly tied to wins and losses are Pass Rushers and QBs. A Probowl corner, safety, coverage/run-stopping LB, and OL are not good value here. This is the time for Bruce Smiths, Von Millers and QBs... The highlighted portion of Chuck's post is so correct....

Hmmm...so who is running the show?

Reid is a good coach; KC was awful he turned them right around...

Weaker Conference and a big knock on Allen this year was playing in that conference his completion percentage should have been in the 70+%. I would not hold our breathe for Darnold & Rosen next year, just need to (at this point) hope the 3rd or 4th is a better prospect that Mahomes (nice potential) or Watson (likely bust) thus far and we don't take the JP of the 2018 class.

Actually my favorite draft moment was when Fournette went to the Jags and they asked Dion if he would tackle him or get out of the way

He was a good pick and should turn out well; I am glad we didn't take CB at 10. He looks like he will fit McDs scheme very well. It's just hard to pass up on a bigger need which is QB and has been the biggest need since JK retired. I just don't see 2018 being a feasible trade up draft; teams always need QBs and the other needy ones will most likely be worse than us - they aren't giving Darnold/Rosen up. We will be drafting 3rd or 4th best which could yield a JP like candidate...I just don't like putting the eggs in the next year is better basket and assuming I can move up. It isn't guaranteed...

Everybody does understand this point; different time and era for the game...I used to feel that way to; I changed my opinion on that

Also totally reasonable for the other half of Bills fans to continue to believe that TT is going to amount to anything and fail to understand how important a good QB is. Maybe he will finally develop by the time he is 30; he has only been in the league 5 years and starting for 2. Maybe he might be the next Rich Gannon

Jesus Christ Are we looking at total QBR, TPC, YAC, ability to come back when down by 4+ points, rushing yards by a QB? I'm curious as to what stats we will use to cherry pick his greatness....

FWIW Gil Brandt had him ranked as the number 18 player, Trubisky was 8, Watson was 9 and Kizer was 33. Even looking on Twitter a lot of people who talk to scouts indicated the teams had the QBs ranked way higher than your Kipers, McShays and other Mocksters... Matthew Fairburn‏ @MatthewFairburn 9h9 hours ago I'm told those around the league expect Texas Tech QB Patrick Mahomes to go top 10. Chiefs known to love him, have entertained trade up.

Andrew Luck is a poor example. He was the number 1 pick and they didn't have to give up anything for him. He was also the highest rated prospect since Manning. The colts problem was an awful GM who had no business being in that position. Every draft the whiffed after they took Luck... Taking a QB is a risk, but you have to do it. Every team who doesn't have one wants one and that drives the price up. I never said take one every year, you will never develop anyone that way. The bust rate gets worse as you move down the rounds and overall the bust rate is well just bad. Gil Brandt for instance has 4 QBs in his top 50 this past year. Turbisky at 8, Watson at 9, Mahomes at 18 and Kizer at 33 http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000800363/article/hot-150-gil-brandts-topranked-prospects-for-2017-nfl-draft

Would the jags be in a better place overall with those other numerous great players they missed on (We missed on them to btw)? No their record would more or less be the same. If Gabbert worked out and was developing such as a Mariaota, Winston where would the Jags be heading? The problem is if you don't take these players, you end up right where we have been. If you take these QBs and they don't bust - congrats you are on your way to a SB contender; if they bust you are in the same damn spot as you were if you took the top CB,S LB, RBs in the draft. It is a fact, do a little research over the past 15 years (I am not doing that for you and I already have btw)

This is true and looks nice. Winners and losers decided in a few years

Good chance they actually were trying to swing into #2. They wanted Trubisky...

You assume that the Jets and Browns and possibly 49ers will be willing ot trade provided they don't need QBs... Hard to make that assumption..

Kinda damning for the franchise no?

The trade may seem kinda dumb, but there was a good chance the Browns were trying to move right into #2 and they had no choice - we don't know that. You shouldn't fault or criticize them taking a chance on a QB who could turn their entire franchise around; you should envy them....

We were stupid IMO. But we always try to get cute TJ Graham over Wilson, Passing on Dak, Passing on Cousins. We draft JPs and EJs and get scared off so we throw our hats on the Cardales of the draft and Fitzy's of FA.

+100000000 Exactly correct

And the flawed logic with this is that the 2 teams who are #1 & #2 have to be willing to trade and not need said QBs next season. It's funny how that always gets missed and lumped in with their will be better QBs next year crowd... There were 2 worth risking this year, one went #2 and the other went to KC with our pick to a HC who knows QBs.

Neither of those positions will lead to more wins and that is what is missed. If you are in the top 10 you have a chance to get players that will lead to more wins. DBs are not good value that high and unless it is a pass rushing linebacker; it is a bad spot for LBs. It is not about Mahomes; it is about honestly passing on one of the 2 positions (dominant pass rusher & QB) that is directly related to success and winning more than any other position in the modern NFL. QBs are drafted for potential and you pay a premium for them if you have to trade to get one. it is the hardest position to scout and honestly is more important than a pass rusher. What you are explaining ab a Cb for instance is true, but only if your team can afford it. Ours cannot; that is how you spin your wheels. No body spins the wheels like the Buffalo Bills. This is exactly how you miss the playoffs and having any shot for 17+ years in a league designed for parity. And that is the problem it is the short term! Who do you think we will get next year? The best 2 QBs will most likely go 1 & 2; As of now the Browns and Jets will be drafting in those positions. We will then have to give up our high first, KCs late first, and another one of our picks to take a QB. and NFL network grades on the top 2 QBS taken this year are: The skinny: Patrick Mahomes has all of the tools to be a great quarterback. Chiefs GM John Dorsey and head coach Andy Reid saw Brett Favre in Green Bay, and they have to see some of that gunslinger attitude in Mahomes. There is a risk factor here given his penchant for throwing the ball anywhere and from any arm angle (which will turn into interceptions in the NFL), and they have up a future first-round pick to get him. But if anyone can get Mahomes to adjust and succeed, it's Reid. The skinny: The Bears weren't satisfied with Mike Glennon as their quarterback of the future, so they picked up Mitchell Trubisky. They have up a second-rounder, third-rounder, and a 2018 third-round pick to get him. That's not terrible in terms of what other teams have given up to get their quarterback of the future; other teams have given up first-round picks to pick their guy. They had to move up one spot to get him, though, because other teams were looking at that pick -- or at least that's what San Francisco told them. The skinny: Deshaun Watson was an excellent college quarterback, and the Texans are hoping he becomes a great NFL quarterback. I'm with Bill O'Brien on this one, even though Houston parted with a 2018 first-round pick in trade up to get him. With Houston's defense playing well, they needed a leader and playmaker to get the offense rolling.

I see your point, but I disagree. he is 10000% on target here. We both had needs at QB. If you don't believe that, why did we wait until the very end with Tyrod to commit? Why did we ask for a paycut? Why did he agree? He isn't good enough. He is very close to Alex Smith, won't lose a game for you, but can't win it for you. Andy Reid has been around Favre & McNabb, he fixed Alex Smith - he knows QBs. If you knew this and still passed on Mahomes you (not you personally, the team) are a moron. The Chiefs were in the playoffs because they built a very strong team with an average QB, much like TT. They couldn't and won't advance in the playoffs with Smith; they have a chance to break through in a couple years now. They may not because Mahomes could bust, but they took the chance to move forward based on what they felt his potential is and he may not bust. It was/is a smart move by them...14 of the last 16 QBs to play for the AFC in the superbowl are Brady, Ben and Manning. If that doesn't tell you how important this position is, I don't know what will. By nature the Bills rarely draft Qbs in the first round. This is where Pegs and Co piss me off; we only look at this is year 3 and those were different people at a different time. That all may be true but the organizational patterns and thought process is identical. After 17 years it is known that they have a bad process that does not yield the desired the results; it doesn't work. Fine the QB busts, go back and learn about what you were wrong with. Look at your drafts notes and see if you missed something, learn from it. Just don't stick your head in the sand (or up your A$s) and not take a first round QB again. Some people will say well he isn't going to play this year and that is not the point. It is for longer term building and not for this upcoming year. The Bills draft for the upcoming year and really do not have a long term plan at all. We lose players and replace them in the draft and scour the FA wire for value role players. We don't have studs in positions that get you wins. This DB is not going to help us win any more games than Gilmore did. Well we get their 27th pick and a 3rd this year and their 1 next year. Their 1 next year is likely to be in the same range. The value/caliber of the player you will get is much different. Next year's QB class always looks much better, yes Darnold/Rosen look really strong right now. I don't see Cleveland willing to move away and miss on a QB again. The Jets may every well have a worse record than us as well. You can't make those assumptions that you have the ammo to move up; you can have all the ammo in the world, but if that team needs a QB to you are screwed. BADOL has posted a few times a great rule of thumb for positions to draft by round and draft position and it is correct. You could have taken a shot on Mahomes and still had your picks next year. Now if TT stinks, you will be trading assets (if possible) to try to grab someone. It's not about Mahomes specifically, it is about ignoring the most important position on this team that will directly get you more wins and trying to improve it; not filling a hole.

Darby is going to NE of course and we will draft another 1st round CB. FML all these years BillfromNYC was right. I apologize for arguing Bill, you were and are correct