Reed83HOF

Awesome Job Bandit27!

I agree...I'm very worried about ending up with plan C and down from there.My assumption is that plans A&B include a lot of picks and the Browns & Giants and that C involves trading up for scraps. The high-end prospects are the big 4. Jackson & Rudolph are the next tier imo and this is where I have a hard time with Jackson and Rudolph. Mason checks a lot of boxes, where Jackson doesn't, but Jackson is a much better athlete. I'm not sure how they will quantify one over another. I do think whoever we chose should match whatever scheme/style of play we plan on running for the next few years. To me (and I'm an !@#$) but I see a traditional offense is what we want and that is Mason as opposed to the more "sandlot style" with Jackson. I'm not necessarily comparing TT and Jackson, but the move to Peterman was 2 fold, TT was not effective and the style of offense we were playing left too many plays on the field. Dyanimc QBs come with a host of issues, but the key is developing to be a great passer and to become pass first; not many are able to do that successfully. That style off offense doesn't necessarily suit AJ or Nate and if Jackson got injured, it changes your offense a bit when a more traditional guy comes in. I think you have to look at that entire offensive package to make sure all of your players can execute that scheme (it's more than the Perkins scheme, it's how the players actually play on the field). I hope I said this right...

That was amazing!

Scares the hell out of me as well, especially with a great pass rushing class coming up. I just hope our FO & scouts are good enough in identifying a QB if we move up and we chose correctly... Through AJ & Nate to the wolves this year...

What scares me is it might be Rudolph...In regards to whoever we take I will root like hell for them, until they demonstrate that the suck of course... It really is a crucial draft for us, if we miss on the QB it will mostly likely be 2020 for our next shot...

LOL I don't think anyone is looking for a statue! They do want someone who can move around in the pocket and make a play. I believe (I could very easily be wrong) when you couple escapability and stand in the pocket to throw along with his other statements (about staying in there until the last second when you can't run, not sandlot football, Cam taking a beating etc.), I'm still not sure you get to Lamar - You actually get a lot closer to Allen & Darnold JMO of course... For me it isn't about the player that excites me, right now, it is actually the game of trying to figure out who fits what we know so far, from past statements, repetitive statements, etc.. It is Lamar personally, he feels to me a little more like the square peg...BY all means we could draft him if he is the highest rated player on our board, but I don't think that necessarily fits what they are looking for. Sometimes you can't get what you want...

Beane doesn't want to get stuck, as he said yesterday. the context was a little different as I think it was about doing a multiple team trade up from 7 to top 5, but I believe the same thought process would apply. He also spoke about having a conviction for the guy, not many guys that they would want.

Or we can be like you and not listen to anything that was ever said, because it is apparently all smoke in your eyes...If that's the case, why bother posting any opinions or anything on this board...His comments were from May last year and tend to line up with what he is even saying now... Such as?

Weo here are a few things he said when he was hired last year both are from May 2017: From article #1 To be in this league, whether its Tyrod or name the quarterback, you have to make plays consistently from the pocket. The quarterbacks that are succeeding year after year after year consistently make plays from the pocket. That's what, whoever the franchise quarterback is going to be, that's what he'll have to do." "Obviously, you draw them up, from a physical standpoint, they look like Cam (Newton)," Beane said. "But how many are there like that? You want a guy, the stature, the height, you know, they're standing over, they're not worried about linemen in their face. It gives them the vision and all that. Arm strength. But the one thing that people I think miss a little bit when they're watching, you know, the college game schematically has just been so dummied down that these guys know before the ball's snapped right where they're going. There's no progressions. There's no audibiling. That's the challenge that the college guys have, and it's brutal. And these quarterbacks that are getting drafted high that have never taken a snap from center, have never called an audible. That's tough. The intangibles are the other thing that you can't necessarily measure from the film. I can turn on the film and watch some things. You obviously want to see quarterbacks live, but what's this guy's makeup? What's his leadership? Do guys rally behind him? http://www.newyorkupstate.com/buffalo-bills/index.ssf/2017/07/buffalo_bills_gm_brandon_beane_describes_what_he_looks_for_in_franchise_quarterb.html Article #2 Brandon Beane: You know, you love arm strength. You can't teach arm strength. You can probably improve it a little bit... the accuracy is very important. You know, the guys are not as open in the pros as they are in college, and so, it will show if you've got a guy that's inaccurate from the pocket. You have to have the leadership qualities. You've got to get guys to follow you. It is a quarterback league, and if you don't have the leadership in the other guys, that's 11 guys on the field -- if they're not following you, it just doesn't work. I've seen quarterbacks that have arm talent. We've known the names in this league -- I'm not going to call them out -- that have all the talent in the world and they've been first-round picks.... but they aren't leaders. You've got to start there. You want to be able to have a passer that can throw from the pocket. It's good to be mobile... we love that. And obviously, Tyrod brings that, and I think Peterman has some things like that. You know, all these guys have some different qualities... there's not one thing, but, at the end of the day, quarterbacks in the NFL must be able to throw from the pocket. Brandon Beane: Yeah, I mean, calculated risk... whatever you want to call it. There are some times when they are going to have to thread the needle. It's third and long, and it's late in the game, and we've got to get this play, and they're going to put a spy on the quarterback or something like that... he's got to stand in there, trust his reads, trust his progressions... and sling it and make the throw. You have to do that. In college, you see a lot of running quarterbacks that can just make a play with their own. Everything breaks down and it becomes sandlot football, and you do see some plays in the NFL, but the speed is so different here. It takes a special player to do it, and to do it often... and again, the pounding that you take. We saw that in Carolina last year. Cam took more hits last year than he had in the previous years, so, it's a tough league. And again, I'll go back to it: You have to be able to throw from the pocket. https://www.wkbw.com/sports/bills/what-does-buffalo-bills-gm-brandon-beane-want-at-qb-you-have-to-be-able-to-throw-from-the-pocket Actually he was associated with Delhomme as well - he has been there quite awhile...

John, this was from May 2017 right after he was hired...I would say that is pretty far away from this year's draft. He has actually been fairly consistent with what he says now and has yet to contradict himself...I would say this pretty good insight into his thinking...

Such as? Please tell me/the rest of us how Jackson fits into what Beane is looking for, especially when compared against the other QBs...I'm not being a dick either. I seriously don't see it... I mean Beane was fairly specific. He does have experience with Cam in the CAR front office and from the Washington post last year ( know beane was here, but this wasn't a cooked up plan that happened right before Beane left either). One of the absolute biggest, and one that gets swept under the rug because of Newton’s obvious drop in passing stats, is their quarterback being used as a runner. On designed runs for the quarterback that weren’t kneels or sneaks in 2015, Newton averaged 5.5 yards per carry (on 74 attempts) and scored eight touchdowns. In 2016, those designed runs netted the Panthers only 4.5 yards per carry (66 attempts) and five touchdowns. In 2017, he has only four carries for seven yards through three weeks. Put simply, the Panthers aren’t running with Cam Newton any more. And when they do, defenses have caught up schematically. They are no longer surprised when Jonathan Stewart turns into a lead blocker for Newton and aren’t leaving themselves a man short to stop the run. With added defenders keen on paying attention to the run, though, it should theoretically leave Newton with more room to work in the passing game. This is the part of Newton’s regression that is easy to see in the box score. His completion percentage dropped 6.9 points from 2015 (59.8) to 2016 (52.9), and his adjusted completion percentage – which adds in drops and takes out throwaways, spikes, batted passes and passes where the QB was hit in his throwing motion – hasn’t fared any better. He went from 71.5 percent in 2015 to 65.4 percent, dead last in the NFL, in 2016. Somewhere in the Panthers’ organization, they made a conscious effort to address that this offseason. With so many incomplete passes, it was difficult for the Panthers to sustain drives. So they drafted underneath passing threats in Christian McCaffrey and Curtis Samuel, and Newton currently has the second-highest completion percentage of his career (61.4). The switch hasn’t fixed the problem, though — it’s actually made it worse. Newton’s average depth of target has dropped from 10.9 and 11.0 in 2015 and 2016 (two of the highest figures in the league) to 8.4 this year. And those underneath throws he’s now making were actually his weakest throws a season ago. In terms of true accuracy (putting the ball on a receiver’s frame), Newton was the third-most-inaccurate screen thrower, second-most-inaccurate when asked to lead a receiver horizontally across the field and second-most-inaccurate on throws one to five yards down the field in 2016. The offense now asks him to do more of that. Accuracy isn’t a static quantity, though; Newton doesn’t struggle everywhere. In fact, he was the second-most-accurate quarterback in the NFL when aiming at stationary or slowly moving receivers exploiting a hole in zone coverage down the field.

Beane does not want a QB that plays from the sandlot, he wants a guy who on 3rd down stands in the pocket and delivers the ball, He also is concerned with running QBs and this hits they take. If you read what Beane looks for in a QB - it is not Jackson at ll...Search the forum this has already been discussed... Go back to Beane's interviews when he was hired last May, he was pretty specific that finding a franchise QB is a top priority and what he looks for in a QB. These quotes actually line up pretty well with it... Darnold, Allen, Rosen and even Mayfield have to be up there. I'm curious as to how the have Rudolph & Jackson ranked...Rudolph seems to check most of Beane's boxes, however Jackson is a great athlete. I would love to be able to hear what here thinking is if it came down between those 2....

Lighten up francis - it was a joke

You are right about the OL, it worked for Tyrod - I think he had the most time in the league to pass...I think that they want to move a bit away from the sandlot football and go "more traditional"; the drafting of Peterman makes it appear that way, hell even starting him over Tyrod I think points that way. The wild card/unknown in this is, can our new offensive staff develop a QB - they are all from the college ranks as well. I ragged on the running game a little bit, because once a D stopped our running game, the game was over. Also without Tyrod back there as QB, I'm not sure how teams will play us when we rush, we did lose a running threat in the QB. I think we may take a step back there. Let's face it the entire offense is in transition this year.... No clue what is going to happen with QB, Darnold & Rosen are the top 2 passers and Mayfield isn't too far away from them. Only Mayfield & Rosen could start right away, Darnold needs time. Allen is interesting, he is either going top 5 or sliding, but he looks to be a good guy with a high ceiling who will get a chance, his release is really fast and that arm is amazing. He also needs some time. After those guys, personally I don't like the rest of the QBs - Rudolph maybe but it's meh at that point and I would probably look at Jackson over him. If it goes that far, it feels like yet another failure to grab a QB becuase we weren't bad enough to draft in a high enough position.... I'm pretty direct when I talk/write so I can easily come off like an !@#$ - it is almost never meant that way

I'm just trying to read what little tea leaves there are to try to understand what Beane looks for in a QB. I think that during his time in CAR he saw how dynamic Newton is, but I think he also saw the issues that are there as well. I figure our best chance for figuring out who we might take is to what fits his profile. There is nothing that says Jackson can't be a good NFL QB and he is a helluva athlete. There is a chance we could even end up with him depending where there draft falls and what players are rated where on our board. You obviously want to feel good about how a prospect can develop and that has to factor into as well. I don't see him as a fit from his style of play, but that doesn't mean wee would ignore him or he won't be on our board. If we take him, I will root for him and hope he turns out to be awesome. If he doesn't, time to move forward...

There is so much wrong with this... 1.) Our OL is not that good, the right side especially - thankfully we matched Groy last year, so we at least have a center. Our depth is awful as well... 2.) The running game - aside from Shady who is 30 we have nothing. It is hot garbage as well - Tolbert last year and Chris Ivory this year? Nothing scares me there... 3.) Wilson also took an amazing Jimmy Graham and made him literally disappear from the face of the earth. 4.) Beane does not value this in a QB at all... Brandon Beane: You know, you love arm strength. You can't teach arm strength. You can probably improve it a little bit... the accuracy is very important. You know, the guys are not as open in the pros as they are in college, and so, it will show if you've got a guy that's inaccurate from the pocket. You have to have the leadership qualities. You've got to get guys to follow you. It is a quarterback league, and if you don't have the leadership in the other guys, that's 11 guys on the field -- if they're not following you, it just doesn't work. I've seen quarterbacks that have arm talent. We've known the names in this league -- I'm not going to call them out -- that have all the talent in the world and they've been first-round picks.... but they aren't leaders. You've got to start there. You want to be able to have a passer that can throw from the pocket. It's good to be mobile... we love that. And obviously, Tyrod brings that, and I think Peterman has some things like that. You know, all these guys have some different qualities... there's not one thing, but, at the end of the day, quarterbacks in the NFL must be able to throw from the pocket. Brandon Beane: Yeah, I mean, calculated risk... whatever you want to call it. There are some times when they are going to have to thread the needle. It's third and long, and it's late in the game, and we've got to get this play, and they're going to put a spy on the quarterback or something like that... he's got to stand in there, trust his reads, trust his progressions... and sling it and make the throw. You have to do that. In college, you see a lot of running quarterbacks that can just make a play with their own. Everything breaks down and it becomes sandlot football, and you do see some plays in the NFL, but the speed is so different here. It takes a special player to do it, and to do it often... and again, the pounding that you take. We saw that in Carolina last year. Cam took more hits last year than he had in the previous years, so, it's a tough league. And again, I'll go back to it: You have to be able to throw from the pocket. I didn't mean to come across as ****ty btw

And liberals are snowflakes?

Not a fan of sandlot football and that's what Dynamic QBs are. If you read what Beane wants in a a QB, it's not sandlot football. Also this article actually sums up my feelings on Russell Wilson https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/12/13/russell-wilson-seattle-seahawks-mvp-darrell-bevell This style of play is inherently inconsistent—especially if your base running game is as poor as Seattle’s has been. But when Wilson makes magic from all this, you see what you saw last Sunday night: The Seahawks prospering despite their offensive line being overmatched by an explosive Eagles defensive line. When Wilson isn’t making magic, you see an offense with few staple concepts to fall back on, and you get the Seahawks offense from the first half of the Week 12 Niners game (129 net yards) or from the second half of the Week 10 Cardinals game (97 yards), second half of the Week 5 Rams game (54 yards) or either half of the Week 1 Packers game (225 yards total). Wilson contributes to these down stretches, too. Many times, when the Seahawks do try to find a rhythm with more traditional pass designs (their best come out of trips formations), Wilson, because he’s so accustomed to breaking down, fails to see them anyway. We always say: There’s no stat to capture throws that should be attempted but aren’t. You see these every game from Wilson. Of course, some of the time when Wilson fails to attempt an open throw, he winds up making a spectacular, out-of-structure play (especially when you include his scrambling, which picks up late in close games). I’d love to know what Bevell and Pete Carroll say to their QB when they watch these plays on film. From what I hear, it’s mostly Good job, Russ. The veteran coaches by now understand what Wilson is. So does Josh Allen. Both of these guys scream bust and choosing between both of them I would take Allen all day long...

I get where Polian was coming from, get the ball in your playmaker's hands and let him do what he does best; he's amazing and electrifying like that & can make guys miss. This allows him to make plays and use his tremendous athletic ability while not stunting the growth of the offense and possibly making it easier to defend. I honestly think he would be freaking amazing as a WR, look at what he can do on the field ! Plus he is a bit light in the frame department, I would rather have him getting hit by DBs than Watt, Suh and Clowney, et al. I'm going to make a generalization here, but I think it is fairly accurate. I don't want him controlling the offense. I feel this way because thus far in most dynamic QBs careers their success has been that they are more athletically gifted then most others - it's much harder in the NFL - everyone is a great athlete at this level. This narrows the talent gap and they aren't nearly as dynamic as they were before. The key is for them to be able to overcome and outgrow this; they must develop as a passer. As an athlete, that is very challenging for many to overcome since they have to learn to do something new and not rely on their athletic gift which they have relied on their entire athletic life up to now. In regards to Cam, he is a star player, but a good, not great QB. The Kardashians are stars(not sure why and I am not saying Cam is like them, but he is well known). https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fancy-stats/wp/2017/09/26/cam-newton-is-struggling-and-it-doesnt-appear-likely-to-get-better/?utm_term=.ee06d3fb78b9 One of the absolute biggest, and one that gets swept under the rug because of Newton’s obvious drop in passing stats, is their quarterback being used as a runner. On designed runs for the quarterback that weren’t kneels or sneaks in 2015, Newton averaged 5.5 yards per carry (on 74 attempts) and scored eight touchdowns. In 2016, those designed runs netted the Panthers only 4.5 yards per carry (66 attempts) and five touchdowns. In 2017, he has only four carries for seven yards through three weeks. Put simply, the Panthers aren’t running with Cam Newton any more. And when they do, defenses have caught up schematically. They are no longer surprised when Jonathan Stewart turns into a lead blocker for Newton and aren’t leaving themselves a man short to stop the run. With added defenders keen on paying attention to the run, though, it should theoretically leave Newton with more room to work in the passing game. This is the part of Newton’s regression that is easy to see in the box score. His completion percentage dropped 6.9 points from 2015 (59.8) to 2016 (52.9), and his adjusted completion percentage – which adds in drops and takes out throwaways, spikes, batted passes and passes where the QB was hit in his throwing motion – hasn’t fared any better. He went from 71.5 percent in 2015 to 65.4 percent, dead last in the NFL, in 2016. Somewhere in the Panthers’ organization, they made a conscious effort to address that this offseason. With so many incomplete passes, it was difficult for the Panthers to sustain drives. So they drafted underneath passing threats in Christian McCaffrey and Curtis Samuel, and Newton currently has the second-highest completion percentage of his career (61.4). The switch hasn’t fixed the problem, though — it’s actually made it worse. Newton’s average depth of target has dropped from 10.9 and 11.0 in 2015 and 2016 (two of the highest figures in the league) to 8.4 this year. And those underneath throws he’s now making were actually his weakest throws a season ago. In terms of true accuracy (putting the ball on a receiver’s frame), Newton was the third-most-inaccurate screen thrower, second-most-inaccurate when asked to lead a receiver horizontally across the field and second-most-inaccurate on throws one to five yards down the field in 2016. The offense now asks him to do more of that. Accuracy isn’t a static quantity, though; Newton doesn’t struggle everywhere. In fact, he was the second-most-accurate quarterback in the NFL when aiming at stationary or slowly moving receivers exploiting a hole in zone coverage down the field. Also I will do a LAMP, you look like you recently joined. If you look at what Beane looks for in a QB, Jackson does not appear to be that player...

For the defense....

The punt catcher

I have nothing personal against Lamar at all, running/dynamic QBs are nothing special; they will never be a complete QB. If you want someone who is a dynamic runner and have electric moves when they have the ball in their hands, they should be a RB or WR. That is what those positions are supposed to do, a QB is like a point guard - distribute the ball to the playmakers... This article is a bit old I admit, but it still rings true: Peyton Manning, Colts QB: You hear a lot about how the scrambling quarterback is the new wave, with the pocket guy sort of fading out. To me the scrambling quarterback is a guy who, maybe, doesn't know what he's doing. Bill Walsh, Genius: There just isn't a way to play the position as a pure runner. We've seen it attempted over the years, but never with great success. Steve Young was as great a runner as there has ever been in football but he didn't start to make a difference until he became a great passer as well. John Lynch, Bucs safety: There've been a lot of tremendous athletes who didn't turn out to be such great QBs. That's because guys who run a lot may have some early success, but over time, they're a lot easier to stop. Walsh: What happens is that sooner or later those openings to run aren't there anymore, and if you haven't developed as a passer, your wide receivers will just be standing around downfield watching their quarterback run around. Billick: So your quarterback takes off and runs-great, you've got a 6-to-8-yard gain. But he missed the 40-yard TD pass to a guy standing alone in the end zone. The drop-back guy can make those big plays down the field. The negative side is that if he's not very mobile, there are limited ways to protect him. A stationary target can be pretty easy to knock down. Manning: Look, we're all drop-back, pocket QBs. I mean, no one's running the option in the NFL. When Andy Reid calls a play for Donovan, he wants him to hit the pocket, go through his read progressions and then, only if things break down or nobody's open, does he say, "Okay, now go be an athlete and make something happen." Manning: It's not who's the runner and who's the thrower. It's who's the complete quarterback. http://www.espn.com/magazine/vol4no18qbdebate.html Edit: RG3 if he developed as a passer, could still be in the league, his leg is shot and well he sure is no longer dynamic now. QBs need to be able to diagnose the play, pass the ball and deliver it with pin point accuracy in an extremely tight window...

Maybe we turned here after we lost out on Foles and Ballard didn't like our low ball offer for Brissett; this forced him to send #3 to the jets in spite...

You're gonna be jealous when we move to #2and you have to play against him twice a year huh? Wow that got messed up you showed up above my post...strange... I'll be shocked if he busts, I agree he is the best....

Steve Young wasn't good until he was a Pocket Passer, Cam is overrated, Russell Wilson - meh... Best was Randall Cunningham imo and it is honestly not a style of play I care for. QBs job is to read the D, call the plays and get the ball to the playmakers...