Reed83HOF

OK boomer Not really and I agree, just wanted to try that out Not a lot of great QBs and great QB play LOL You can go back to Marino, if he had a balanced running game - they would have been a lot tougher

The last 7 games will start to complete the picture; I do believe it is close to half completed. There was growth is in last chunk of games at the end of 2018 and he was growing the first 5-ish games of this season and he has hit a plateau while cleaning up his INTs. We need to see more growth this year in decision making and getting the ball out on time with anticipation; if he can't grow over the next 7 games in these areas, yeah i am concerned going into 2020 (not ready to close the door, but the writing will start to appear on the wall and we will need to prepare accordingly). In any event, I do expect he will get at least 1/2 through 2021 to make his case. he will have to stop growing right now for that to change imo...

Most significant growth does appear between years 1 and 2 as starters; the exceptions are limited to very, very few (IIRC years 3 to 4 were the growth years - Brees & Smith). Allen may very well be one of these exceptions based on his time in Wyoming and a case could be made his big jump is actually this upcoming season. In any event, he definitely gets through the end of next season and we should have a very good idea who he is by then.

Hmmm...I'm shocked.

See Brees & Alex Smith (that's it though)

Teams know Allen is a flight risk to run, so teams are keyed in on that, they use a spy and we haven't developed enough plays we are capable of hitting on offense to get the D to play honest and open it back up for us.

All this is, is the 100% development of Josh Allen as a QB. You start off with what you excel at and it eventually is game planned away, much like Josh's rushes this year. NE created a blue print on not only Josh, but on our WRs/TEs/OL/RBs as well. Steve Wilks and Cleveland used some of the same concepts and as a QB (and a team) we have yet to be able to overcome them. Once (If) we do, something else will eventually get schemed up and stop us and the further growth and development of Josh Allen, his teammates will then be able to establish an identity and have many ways to beat you - just not there yet. We may not get there with this current group and Allen might not make it either - it is what it is - development of an offense. You might catch a jolt for a game or 2, but you will end up stuck again in the same place.... Thankfully the penalties have been cleaned up since the Rex and before days. Nothing irritates me more than the pre-snap penalties on offense; inexcusable IMO. Holding 9and PI) can be so subjectively called or ignored - I feel like it comes down to luck and relationships with the officials; it's f-ing stupid...

I am not absolving Daboll, but the players do have to execute as well. Like most everything, the answer is somewhere in the middle. The identity that let's say McD and Daboll want is being held up with 9 new players starting on offense, waiting for additional seasoning/development on some players and the development while they are learning is not linear - so it limits what you can call. You also just can't simply call your bread and butter plays all the time - once those get taken away you have nothing at all. Drafting Allen with his skill set, leads me to believe they want to be a passing offense with some smart runs with a dynamic back mixed in. the execution and growth from the players is not there yet and that ties Daboll's hands. If we don't shoot ourselves in the foot with penalties and misreads and missed blocks and the ball is moving, this entire thread and conversation doesn't exist. I will also add in, most playcallers in the NFL have a tendency to make bone headed changes in what is working within the game and completely stall their team out, McVay does it, Shanny does it, it happens all the time...

Lack of confidence or underdeveloped skills (most likely) with the other WRs. IIRC I saw one of the issues with Foster is his inability to track the ball in the air. McKenzie running looking behind him and turning his head side to side certainly slowed him down. So in this game, it is likely due to him not saving enough gas to go get it.

Allen is definitley a work in progress, he has gotten better on the back shoulder throws. The things to look for in the coming weeks is Cleveland took the Cheats* blue print on Allen used it and got similar results (minus the INTs). More teams will use this against him/us - the development of this team and establishing an offensive identity is being able to overcome this to change the blue print. I think Erik actually did a good job in discussing Allen doing well on those 2 points you made. I think what came across was odd while reading it, he did start off that way and then went series by series and had to say what was good, but it just didn't tie together well with his preceding statements. I ignored the style and just focused on the points on the plays and watched the plays to see if i saw what he saw and if I had the same or different thoughts.... Being later in the day now and seeing Joe B's All-22 review, you see 3 different people critiquing the same/similar things. It's okay to be critical of Josh when it's warranted and discuss it

Oh No! Joe B, Cover1 and YPP have all said Allen has some issues. I can't wait to see the "optimists" say they are "no bodies" and it is obviously the play calling poison this thread from rationale discussion. TT and EJ just need a little more time.

This is why in this post, with the selections I gave were the Josh plays and nothing on Daboll - everyone see's issues with flow and going away from what works - this is discussed in like 45673 other threads... It's okay to say Josh still has a way to go and point out the areas he needs to grow in. That doesn't make you a hater, it makes you someone who can look at the entire situation critically and grasp what is actually going on...

nice try I am a manufacturing plant manager. All of your responses thus far have been deflecting criticism of Allen and placing blame on Daboll for not helping him out. Do you expect Daboll to make the reads for him pre-snap like McVay does for Goff (we see how good that works)? Could there be better play calling from Daboll; yeah. Could Josh struggle with reads and the game slowing down for him - yeah? If Josh was able to make some of the throws, his WRs & OL exectued a bit better - it wouldn't have come down the the 3rd and 4th play with 25 seconds left. We were 5 for 13 on 3rd down - those were not all on Daboll's play calls. If you chose to not see Josh's issues as well - that's on you buddy...

Just like you are doing in your post...cherry picking to cast your doubt on Daboll

And if they ran into a blitz, many fans would be crying about that on here as well. At the end of the day, players need to pick up blitzes in both passing & running situations and at times yeah the defense wins...

Cover1 has been impressing the hell out of me this season. What an excellent write up from the game on Sunday Some excerpts: “There were opportunities in that game where I have to be better,” Allen said. “I have to put our offense in better situations, and I just didn’t do that today.” The game film shows he’s right. Browns defensive coordinator Steve Wilks, like other coaches against the Bills this season, pressured the second-year quarterback. Wilks has blitzed 34 percent of the time this season, which is the fourth most in the NFL. On Sunday, Wilks chose to blitz Allen on 41 percent of his dropbacks, using a variety of bluff blitzes, edge pressures and Cover 0 looks to get into Allen’s head. Wilks and the Browns defense let the Bills operate in the short and intermediate areas. But when the visiting team got to third down, the Browns clamped down. The New England Patriots laid out a defensive blueprint in their 16-10 win over the Bills in Week 4, and other teams have taken notice. The Browns crowded the line of scrimmage and forced Allen to make the correct pre- and post-snap decisions. Buffalo finished the game 5-for-13 on third down and 0-for-2 on fourth down. Linebacker Joe Schobert is responsible for RB Devin Singletary and Mack Wilson is the spy — a Browns setup we saw throughout the game. Allen sees that Knox isn’t blowing past Browns safety Morgan Burnett, so he makes the back-shoulder throw. Knox executes a “push-by,” slightly placing his right hand on Burnett’s back and pushing off as he rotates back to the ball. Allen’s throw is on the hands and Knox drops the ball. This time, Daboll gives Allen the perfect play to beat man coverage. He short-motions WR Beasley behind Brown so the corners have to wait until after the snap to decide who they’re covering.The Bills provide strong protection on this six-man pressure and Allen completes the pass to Beasley with plenty of green ahead of him. The Bills provide strong protection on this six-man pressure and Allen completes the pass to Beasley with plenty of green ahead of him.He has to make a split-second decision on where to go with the ball. Singletary still manages to get a piece of the corner and the linemen pick up the pressure well. Allen simply panics, likely seeing a soft edge and the “wall defender” with his backed turned. On Monday, Daboll credited Wilks for his play-call on that third down. Daboll called a good second half overall, but Wilks’ defensive strategy caused Allen to struggle. The Bills offense had some advantageous one-on-one matchups, but Daboll may have relied on them too much when he would have been better served scheming throws to give Allen easier solutions. Wilks consistently bluffed and/or blitzed Allen, forcing the quarterback to go through his pre- and post-snap processes more quickly than he is used to at this point in his career. When pressured, Allen was 6-for-16 for 65 yard (37.5 percent completion rate), averaging 4.1 yards per attempt and taking one sack. The Bills knew the Browns played an attacking style of defense and they failed to execute consistently against the aggressive looks. Due to the Browns’ success, teams will look to pressure Allen more on third-and-medium situations. Will the results against Cleveland serve as a learning experience for Allen and the offense? https://theathletic.com/1369299/2019/11/12/bills-film-room-the-browns-beat-josh-allen-with-their-pressure-schemes-and-provided-a-blueprint/

I didn't link it because it was hard to find - it is buried in replies... On a side note, if you have The Athletic - he did a great write up of the game today...

Cover 1 had it up yesterday; I linked in a few threads. It was a disgusting stat and I'm pretty close We ran this play against Cover 0 10x. 3 completions for 25 yards and 1 TD; Josh sacked twice. Might be an int or 2, I forgot though TBH

Just remember with the personnel grouping we had on the field vs a Cover 0 D; there are only a couple options you can run. You then have to make the check at the line (while being mindful of the play clock and not wasting time getting to the line and a play called) and, once snapped, you only have 2 seconds to make the play. You hope that you made the right check, that the QB and WR are on the same page in regards to the location of the pass and the defenders are in the correct location for you to complete it...It's up to the football gods at that point... All this being said we were 5-13 (38%) on 3rd downs; it didn't have to come down to the final drive....

If by money, you mean 30% success rate on that play vs a Cover 0; then yes you are correct

He didn't look or sound comfortable during his presser at all IMO

not you personally & i agree, but this is one of the funniest things I have ever read

Allen has been a monster in the red zone, Brown said this is the most complex offense he has ever been in, Allen has some poor throws and misfires, Allen can't hit the deepball; etc. We cannot absolve Josh for everything, but there are other players having issues. The other WRs - how are they with route trees and making the reads, might explain why some aren't in on certain situations, Ford at RT, Morse getting blown up, Lee Smith penalties putting us in unfavorable down and distance, Daboll making you scratch your head. You cannot put it all on one person, too many fingers in this pot It was all based on the coverage and you only have 1 spot to go with the ball. Where I like the slot WR motioning and chipping the FS is that you can force a Cover 1 out of it and open the rest of the routes up. It was an all or nothing shot there on 3rd and 4th . Just sucks to lose like that when you should have won...