Reed83HOF

The 2018 Red Sox punishment still has to come out as well. In regards to the Yankees, I am not trying to let blind homerism color my glasses in a shade of Rose, but they were fined and punished in 2017 for the phone incident and placed on warning with everyone else. I do find it hard to believe that they would be stupid enough to continue to skirt the rules in regards to cameras and tipping batters off on what pitches are being thrown while they have been the loudest complainers about the Asterisks cheating. Granted, I have been fooled by the utter stupidity of people and sports teams before, so it wouldn't necessarily surprise me either. It's been so long ago, but LaRussa in the 80s - were cameras even good enough back then to steal signs from Center field to a catchers crotch? Also the record of the White Sox was not even good during this time period I think I put the video up in here, but Jomboy put together a video of Fliers using what is assumed to be pine tar last season to toss a no-hitter. When you watch the video, you really wonder why no one even caught what he was doing or questioned it, kind of like the "buzzer" flying off the end of the bat that the Astro went to pick up and put in his pocket - Ump should have grabbed it and it all would have been over right there, but I digress. Doctoring the ball has been around as long as sign stealing (without technology); spitters, grease balls, pine tar/resin, cutters have been used throughout the history- fans are more tolerant of that because it has always been in the game and part of the game. It's the technological part that is an issue. The spygate videos themselves had to be so damning that they were destroyed, never released and brushed under the table. I still feel the correct thing to do would have been to sacrifice the NE franchise to fully root it all out; however there was a reason they didn't = means the people who were banned or received the harshest punishments would have singing like a canary and the entire league would be toast. I'm still surprised how good the NBA was with framing their one rogue ref

Should start a lawsuit for those who are blind as well

The additional revenue the stadium generates from other events should go back to the owner who built the stadium to help offset the cost of building it and the maintenance.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/mlb/former-mlb-pitcher-jack-mcdowell-alleges-80s-white-sox-tony-la-russa-cheated-with-camera/ar-BBZ3W51?ocid=st McDowell said the White Sox had a camera zoomed in on opposing catchers and a light in an outfield Gatorade sign that could be controlled from the manager's office and would presumably let hitters know which pitches were coming. "I'm going to whistle-blow this thing now, because I'm getting tired of this crap," McDowell told the station. "He was also the head of the first team ... with people doing steroids," McDowell said, referencing La Russa's decade-long stint as manager of the Oakland A's, which included managing infamous steroid users Jose Canseco and Mark McGwire. "Yet he's still in the game making half a million. No one's gonna go after that." "This stuff's getting old, where they target certain guys and let other people off the hook," McDowell said. " ... Everybody who's been around the game knows all this stuff." McDowell's comments on the '80s White Sox came as he explained that illegal sign-stealing has been happening for decades, but that players, managers and MLB itself have collectively decided to look the other way, much like the steroid era. "Nobody wants to throw anybody under the bus," he said. https://nypost.com/2020/01/17/cc-sabathia-keeps-getting-angrier-over-astros-cheating-dont-give-a-f-k/ “F–king ’17, we should have won the World Series,’’ Sabathia said during an episode of his R2C2 podcast with Ryan Ruocco released Thursday. “I don’t care what nobody says. And now that this happened, nobody can ever f–king tell me that we wasn’t gonna win it. We should have won! There’s no way you can tell me we weren’t better than them. I don’t give a f–k what nobody says.”

Who the hell knows.. more players are complaining about it today = MLB still has a big issue, even more so right now, considering that their own players are still keeping this in the press and are pissed about it

also don't forget about this bullshittery

Wasn't calling you out, just seem like an appropriate place to drop the info so others could see it. You never know what weird ***** people think about on this board

Chapman should have leveled him. I was watching a clip from Yes on twitter (it is in here) with Michael Kay and Jomboy - apparently Chapman is the only player who refused to change his signs up and Tanaka was doing it every 3 pitches. So when Chapman gave up the HR, his smirk that pissed everyone off was most likely because he knew he should have changed his sign, but refused to...he got caught

My initial reaction was that it was good to see management get the boot - either the captain is letting the fools run the ship (which indicates he needs to go) or he was in on it and didn't give a sh!t (which also indicates he needs to go). There is no way the GM was unaware and it occurred under his watch in charge of of the team; so goodbye to him. I also don't think there is no way the owner didn't know - it was in their WS video. I can't picture an owner being that aloof - sorry don't buy it. Draft picks are nice and all, but they still are a talented team (cheating aside) and those will be later round picks. I think there should have been a forfeit of title, the $$ they made off it and a couple year post season ban. Cora and Beltran obviously had to go, with the Wilpons being so damn cheap - it had to be especially hard for them to do this. I expect the Red Sox to get punished even more than the Astericks because they were caught once, got the slap on the wrist and the law was formally laid down by Manfred. That is just the nature of getting caught a second time. Now for the players, I struggled here a little bit. Manfred wanted the full truth and granted immunity for it, most likely so baseball itself could understand what methods were being deployed and they can come up with a long term strategy to eliminate it (better communication signals for players, most likely electronic in nature - although some team will work to intercept or jam said devices - I will say a Boston team will do this first for obvious reasons). I would say this is the most obvious and hopeful way of looking at it. Looking at it the other way, the cheating is so wide spread throughout the league - too many names and teams will be affected and the game would be irreparably harmed. Also if players are banned or a world series is taken away - how to do handle awards - does Judge get the 2017 MVP or do you leave it vacated? Decisions like this would need to be made. So in that aspect I kinda can understand where Manfred was coming from, especially with 2 teams involved in cheating scandals. If it was Houston alone, that entire franchise could easily have taken the full brunt of it. The Red Sox make it more difficult because 20117 & 2018 were under 2 different sets of leadership and paints the picture of this being wide-spread. This is far worse than PEDs, because those who used steroids still had to play the game; knowing if the pitch is a fastball or an offspeed pitch is incredibly useful for a player - simply look at the home & away stats for the Asterisks. This is on the level of the 1919 Black Sox and Pete Rose looks like a saint. In the 2019 video alone, Altuve should be shelved for life - it is clear as ***** day. I don't see the 2019 stuff going away and I am curious as to how they try to rectify it seeing they said they couldn't find anything, they will most likely have to go back and re-open that part of the investigation, if the players did not tell the truth. If the players did fess up, most likely as part of their agreement for fessing up, MLB will leave it alone. There should be more blood on the player level to drive this point home IMO - the only reason this didn't happen was becuase that player would spill the beans and baseball would plummet. Also don't forget, there are allegations around the league (Trevor Bauer's twitter for instance) that Houston pitchers cheat to up their spin rates over what it normally is. and he says "I have a device on...no" twice before he is mobbed by his teammates and quickly runs into the clubhouse to change his shirt while the rest of the team is celebrating. At first me and a guy from work thought this was photo shopped because we didn't notice in the video, sure enough it is there plain as day

It honestly was too frequent during the season

It's awful

They were super juiced. There is a huge difference in knowing if a fastball is coming or if it is an off speed pitch. For instance:

Don't forget Motorhead

Watch near the end of this video when they talk about the signs and decoding them - apparently a phone app exists for it and the buzzer can be buzzed via bluetooth Tough to say what's real and what isn't but it looks like a lot of players are fed up and this thing is bubbling over. I am sure some is just internet BS - hard to tell real vs not right at this moment

Scott Borsius's son on reddit (known to be him) and he has since deleted his account

As 49ers quarterback Steve Young once explained to ESPN: “The game would be over. If I knew what was coming, that’s the whole game.” The filming was fairly straightforward — a staffer pointed a camera at an opposing team’s coaches from across the field. And it had gone on for nearly a decade — since Belichick took over the Pats in 2000, NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell later revealed. It was so obvious, the Pats were busted several times before Spygate erupted, including a year earlier, during a 35-0 thrashing of Green Bay. The Packers spotted Pats video assistant Matt Estrella — who was also shooting the video during the Jets game the next season — shooting unauthorized video from the sidelines. He was asked to leave — then was spotted doing it from a tunnel, which got him booted from Lambeau Field. “From what I can remember, he had quite a fit when we took him out,” Packers President Bob Harlan said. When the Lions played the Pats in Foxboro in 2006, the same thing happened, Sports ­Illustrated reported. “ ‘There’s a camera pointed right at our defensive coach making his calls. Is that allowed?’ a Lions employee asked in a call to the NFL booth. No, it certainly was not. So the videotaper was stopped. Then after a while he began again,” the magazine reported at the time. O’Leary repeats a rumor that Pats backup quarterback Doug Flutie once said he accidentally picked up Brady’s helmet during the 2005 season. “He was amazed that the coaches kept right on speaking to Brady past the 15-second cutoff, right up until the snap,” ­according to O’Leary. “The voice in Tom Brady’s helmet was explaining the exact defense he was about to face.” That same year, Pats linebacker Ted Johnson told USA Today that an hour before game time, a list of the opposing team’s audibles — the signals a QB would use at the line of scrimmage just before a snap to change the play — would sometimes appear in his locker. He had no idea where the lists came from. https://nypost.com/2014/10/12/they-are-cheaters-spygate-the-nfl-scandal-that-started-it-all/