Albany,n.y.

From what I've seen around here, people are giving Gailey too much credit & think he'll be a miracle worker with at least one of our QBs. I don't see any Gailey is worse than Jauron posts, at least not yet. I'm sure at some point we will, especially when the poster's guy is not picked as the starting QB & the guy he hates the most is.

It's not that he was that bad a DC, it's the scheme he ran, that Tampa cover 2 which was bad. Maybe Jauron can be blamed more than Fewell for choosing that D, I just don't know. I don't think that's the defense he'll have with the Giants, so he may have a shot at adding to his resume, but that Tampa crap defense was ridiculous. That said, the many fans who think any new coaching staff will be an instant upgrade are in for a real shock. You may not like hearing this, but the coaching staff from last year isn't even half as bad as you make them out to be. You'll find that out as this season progresses and the growing pains of switching to the new O, D, & ST systems take time. Upgrades are not automatically instant. The easiest way to turn a team around is with a significant QB upgrade, not a coaching upgrade without the QB upgrade.

Overall, I agree with most of the original post with one exception, the knocking of the front office. I believe they're following through with the plan to build through the draft & develop players together. With a few exceptions, they only get one pick per round, especially the early rounds. You can't build through the draft in 1 offseason. There's no point in going after names like Clausen to solve a QB hole if they don't like Clausen. They have to go with their feelings on players, not Mel Kiper's. This is a 3 year rebuilding project. Those calling for the quick fix veteran free agents are missing the whole point. Think 1985 Bills when the team had a great draft but still had no starting QB (although we already had rights to a future HOF QB at the time). Even that team took 3 more years, 4 seasons, to win the AFC East, 3 of those seasons with Bill Polian at the helm in the front office. So let's give the front office a chance before we complain about their inactivity. Once they get their core of young players, including the likely addition of the QB next draft, then we can spend $ on key free agents. If the plan works the 2012 Bills will be a major player in the NFL. This season is bleak, especially in the W-L column. You can still enjoy a losing season by being a true optimist. A true optimist looks at the big picture. Sure I'm pessimistic about the W-L record for 2010, I'm looking ahead with a lot of optimism. Those claiming optimism for this season are ignoring all the evidence against it & rail on the more realistic among us as pessimists. Their problem is they can't see the forest from the trees. They will bag on anyone who doesn't think we're tons better than last year and any time you say something about the fact there aren't too many wins coming this year, they scream pessimist. They will likely be the first to start posting "Fire Gailey" a few games into the season, because the results will be worse than Jauron/Fewell and they haven't grasped the reality of what the 1st year of a three year rebuild is all about.

Kinnebrew didn't last very long that year. The funny part was when the Bills waived him, there was a cartoon in the Buffalo News with the owners of his favorite places to eat mourning his departure.

Based on his competition, Brohm could end up the starter & I wouldn't be shocked. All it would say is that our QB tandem is the worst in the league, which is hardly shocking.

Please, if you're going to try to make a case, know what you're talking about. Here are the facts: Trent Dilfer was not cut by two teams before winning a Super Bowl. He was not a 1st round bust with Tampa Bay. He played in Tampa Bay for 6 seasons & was granted free agency rather than be paid a $4.6 million bonus in his 2nd contract with the team-I did state that 1st rounders on subsequent contracts are released, a common practice when their cap $ get too high. Do you know that Trent Dilfer is the winningest QB in Tampa Bay Bucs history? Do you know that Dilfer started every game for 4 straight seasons before going down with a injury in his 6th year with Tampa? That is not the definition of a 1st round bust. Busts don't start 4 straight seasons & make it to the Pro Bowl like Dilfer did with Tampa. Doug Williams was no bust either. Williams played 5 seasons with (ironically) Tampa Bay. He felt he was seriously underpaid after he was a major contributor in turning around the team from NFL laughingstock to a playoff contender who once made it all the way to the NFC championship game. So what did Doug Williams do? He JUMPED to the USFL. Upon the USFL's folding, he was not shown the interest comensurate to his abilities, and signed with Washington as a backup until he ended up the starter & Super Bowl winner a season later. So, to sum things up, when we review the facts, you can't think of any real busts who rebounded.

Wow, you've taken spinning to a whole new level. You call me a Trent apologist after I responded to your response to a post where I concluded that FITZPATRICK would end up getting the most starts. How can you spin Fitzpatrick will get the most starts into being a Trent apologist. I gave up on Trent as too injury prone after he came in for one series and a la Rob Johnson, got a season ending injury. So, stop trying to spin anyone who sees through this Brohm charade into a Trent Edwards apologist. As I've stated, the Brohm apologists contradict every thought as their posts increase.

That's easy. However some Brohm apologists , I'm not saying you since I don't follow who is the poster on most posts, are spinning like tops trying to defend the reasons why he ended up here. Some will use the match excuse as you did, but the simplest answer is that they were just trying to protect their insurance policy of a 3rd QB on the practice squad who actually knew the system for the rest of the 2009 season because bringing in someone new, which they ended up doing twice after Brohm came here because the 1st new guy signed with another team's 53, required teaching someone new the system, making that guy as worthless to GB as Brohm was to the 2009 Bills. (Funny, the Brohm apologists use Brohm was too new in the system as an excuse for the Atlanta debacle, but can't grasp why GB preferred their insurance QB to know their system). I've often answered that question with the insurance premise & then asked -If they were so high on Brohm then why didn't they try to exceed the Bills offer. So far nobody has come up with a real answer to that one. The typical Brohm guy answer is "why would they exceed the offer if he was 3rd & would never start over Rodgers?" That answer backs my answer the Packers only were looking at Brohm's 2009 insurance value & nothing more. The Brohm apologists have spun in different directions in the same threads. The best oxymoronic spin is the Packers didn't have the roster space to keep 3 QBs and that's the only reason Brohm was cut in September, but then they cite the "match offer". They claim the match offer is proof the Packers valued Brohm, yet this is the same team that valued him so much they were willing to get NOTHING in return when they waived him. Once again that logic only backs my insurance premise. Sure you can spin it that the spot opened up due to guys going on IR as the season progressed, but the bottom line is they did not do anything to protect their interests in Brohm until the Bills' offer-once again confirming the only interested in 2009 in season insurance premise. Then there are the ones (like above) who will list all these UFAs & late picks who flew under the radar, got cut & either were picked up on waivers or spent time on a practice squad & then made it big. What they fail to understand is that 2nd round QBs are on everyone's radar & they don't fly under the radar like these UFAs & late round guys do. The chance of a guy who was already under the radar succeeding are much better that an early round bust, especially at the QB spot, who got waived already. Just look at how many shots the 1st round busts get-I can't remember any recent 1st round QB bust making it after his 1st team waived him, even though other teams have tried with guys like Leaf, Harrington, McNow, Couch, and of course our two poster boys that each cost us a 1st -Rob Johnson & JP Losman. Sometimes I think the Brohm guys are closet JP guys who have finally moved on to a new lost cause. (That is until we get the posts from the JP diehards claiming he'll now emerge as the man in Seattle) Then there are the worse ones-the ones who don't even know that Brohm was waived, cleared waivers by all other 31 teams, then landed on the practice squad. They say things like "He was never waived, we got him off their practice squad". Those people who don't know how he got to the practice squad can't be reasoned with. I've written off Brohm because history tells us that there are virtually no mistakes when a team lets a high picked QB leave with no compensation (unless he's a veteran salary cap dump, often on his 2nd or 3rd contract). There are plenty of late round mistakes because the guys are not scrutinized as closely, explaining the Warners, Bulgers, Hasselbecks, and Moores etc.

Green Bay was not "hiding" Brohm anywhere or trying to "sneak" him on the practice squad. The only reason he was on the practice squad was because he cleared waivers after Green Bay threw him out there for free and had no takers. No matter how you Brohm fans spin it, the truth is Green Bay & the rest of the NFL thought he was garbage, otherwise someone would have claimed him. Second round picks cut their second year do not fly under the radar. I've seen plenty of excuses why Brohm was cut but the only real one is-Green Bay didn't give a rat's @ss if they lost him for nothing and nobody else cared enough to put in a waiver claim for him. Spin it any other way but that's the reality. If he "wins" the Bills job all it means is there is no NFL QB on this roster. Personally, my guess is when the season is over, Fitzpatrick will have the most starts and we'll head into the offseason with the same QB situation we headed into this offseason-no quality starting QB on the roster. The only difference will be both Edwards' & Brohm's contracts will be up (if not sooner) and they'll be looking to bring in a legitimate NFL QB for 2011, even if he is a rookie.

2 shots: Bills 0-10 then he gets benched, or how many games do they play in the UFL?

Here's the problem I see with the optimistic posts on this upcoming season: 1) All the optimists assume that Gailey & his coaching staff are head & shoulders better than Jauron & his staff AND can implement their completely new offensive, defensive & special teams systems in their 1st season. That is no slam dunk. While in the long run this may be true, putting in totally new systems take time. Even the great Joe Gibbs (1) went 0-5 when putting in a new system & he had a good enough team to win the Super Bowl a season later-in an era with no free agency to provide the quick fix. Remember, back in 2001 we were all saying the same thing in the switch from Wade Phillips to Gregg Williams and the team was 5 games worse from 2000 to 2001. If you think the coaching staff was so bad last year, then why did most of them land on their feet with other jobs in the NFL? Obviously the other NFL teams don't have as bad an opinion of the previous staff as members of this board have. A coaching staff is a lot more than just a head coach, and the other NFL teams by hiring these guys are saying you are underrating them. 2)The O-line is not significantly better than the opening day o-line from last year. Green is not as good as Butler, he may be better than Butler's band of replacements but how much is questionable. Wood still has to return to 100% before we know if he will have to take 2 steps back before he takes a step forward. Hangartner is just a below average center, same as last year. Bell? who knows? last year he was nothing short of a disaster, no matter how rosy your glasses are. Are any of the other guys any better, once again, who knows? With a year under his belt, Levitre is assumed to be better. 3) The QB situation may actually be worse than last year, when Fitzpatrick seized the opportunity & took the reigns. That's because Fitzpatrick's main competition is 2 guys who have already experienced confidence meltdowns. Edwards could recover, but you guys seem to think Chan Gailey is a magician who can sprinkle dust on Edwards or Brohm & turn them from chicken scratch to chicken salad (thank you Mr. Felser for the phrase that I can get past the sensors). There is no evidence that Gailey can turn any of these losers into winners. The optimists point to Tyler Thigpen as proof of Gailey's magic, but all that season did was produce 2 wins for the Chiefs, which got Herm Edwards fired, Gailey himself fired by Haley before the start of the following season & Thigpen jettisoned to Miami shortly thereafter. 4) If you think the losses of Schobel on defense & Owens on offense are insignificant, you're in for a pretty good slap in the face when you see the 2010 Bills. Also, Josh Reed was a very underrated player, especially when the Bills needed a key block from the WR spot and John Wendling was one of, if not the best guy on special teams. 5) This is a Nix/Gailey tear down, rebuild season. Tell me when have you seen a team play well in a tear down, rebuild season without a significant, stressing significant, upgrade at QB? I'm not one of these eternal pessimists like some people here, but I've seen enough teams in the same place the Bills are in & the most optimistic I can be is they can have a damn good team in 2-3 years, but year one of the latest new era is going to be like most 1st years of a rebuild-a real struggle. 5 of the 6 wins last year were the result of aberational bad play by the losing team (Carolina & Jets), playing two horrible teams, at least at the time we played them, both in that 1st year new coach transition year(Tampa Bay & Kansas City), and a team that pulled all the players needed to provide a real opposition after the 1st quarter (Indianapolis). Even if the Bills are improved, their win total with this year's schedule couldnosedive due to a tougher schedule. Realistically, Outside of 1 Miami game, Jacksonville, @ KC, Detroit, & Cleveland where are the wins coming from? That's 5 to start & KC, Detroit & Cleveland could be a lot better this year than last. I just can't find a lot of Ws this year. It's going to be a lot like 2001. The difference is, this staff is probably better than Gregg's & the future may end up very different, but unless you're totally blinded by your fandom, have your head burried in the sand, and are hoping for a miracle, the outlook for 2010 is pretty bleak. You can still be an optimist, like I am for the long term future of this team, yet admit that this year is going to be rough in the W-L column.

Due to the fact that the earliest you can meet your criteria is the 2005 draft, I'll go back a little further & although 2 of the 3 are now gone, 9 years later, I've got a pretty good 1st three rounders for a team in an earlier draft. I'm sure there are others, but I chose one that produced 3 for 3 Pro Bowlers: 2001 Carolina Panthers. 1) Dan Morgan 7 years with Carolina 2) Kris Jenkins 7 years with Carolina still in the league with the Jets 3) Steve Smith in his 10th season with Carolina.

The Patriots put individual game tickets on sale for this season on Monday. I went to Ticketmaster & was able to get a ticket. Unfortunately, they only have single seats available, so I'll be going alone (Petrino had already bailed on me before I went to get the ticket). I have a pretty good seat-Section 331 row11-that's somewhere between the 35-50 yd line. I skipped last year because it was a night game, but 2 years ago there was a tailgate near an old Subway shop. I'm guessing that's where this year's tailgate will be. Anyone have any details on the tailgate?

There's a good chance that the UFL will fold after this season, making 2011 moot. The UFL couldn't draw at all last year. The game I went to in Hartford had about 1,500 people in the stands, they announced over 5,000 then moved the team permanently there for 2010. The only reason the UFL has survived this long is they got a sweetheart TV deal. Unfortunately for them, it's a 2 year contract that I can't see being renewed at anywhere near the bucks the 1st one was. Last year they could afford to draw no fans & still survive, this year is the same. Next year is an entirely different financial situation. I'm predicting 2 seasons & a cloud of dust.

Because he needs to learn to respect his elders.

For the record, Matt Moore was a UFA, Tyler Thigpen was a 7th round pick and Derek Anderson was a 6th rounder. None of them made it past all 31 other teams when put on waivers as rookies. In Tom Brady's rookie year the Patriots kept 4 QBs because they didn't want to risk trying to sneak him onto the practice squad and someone claiming Brady on waivers.

That explanation of a player's floor is great! Your post should be required reading every time someone says that someone should make the roster over another because he has more upside. Until they calculate the downsides, or floors, they cannot correctly evaluate each player's value to the team. Fitzpatrick, even if he doesn't start, is one of the most important players on the team. He becomes even more valuable if Trent Edwards, with his injury history, ends up the starter. By the way, if Brohm beats out Edwards they better keep Fitzpatrick around, because Brohm wasn't exactly a Manning in terms of durability in college, tearing his ACL, thumb ligaments & having non throwing arm labrum surgery.

I don't know how good a vote of confidence is when you're 3rd on the depth chart of a team that likes to carry only 2 QBs on the 53 man roster.

The only one in the poll who ever led his team to the playoffs, has and will have the longest career of any of them is Todd Collins. He might not be much, but of this group he towers over the rest.

The Bills are not re-signing TO for one simple reason. This season is a building block for the future. So what if TO plays better than Easley, Johnson or Hardy today. When the guy who emerges from this bunch is playing on a team that is a legitimate contender, TO won't be around. It's not always about today, sometimes you form your roster with an eye on tomorrow-TO has very few tomorrows left. One of the 3 other WRs might just have a lot of tomorrows-in Buffalo.

It's good to see some sanity on this board in regards to Fitzpatrick in your post & the one above it. Those "cut him, he sucks" or "he costs too much and Ralph is cheap" posts were getting a little ridiculous considering Fitzpatrick's body of work as an NFL QB compared with the other 3 candidates on our roster. If Gailey wants to "win now" the choice of our starter is clear-Fitzpatrick, game in & game out gives us the best chance of winning each Sunday. I too think, at worst, Fitzpatrick will be #2 and has a roster spot locked up.

The GUY responsible for bringing Brohm here does not still have his job. The coaches in GB who saw Brohm every day for over a year had no fear they were making a mistake when they cut him last September. Being a former #2 pick they probably expected to lose him and didn't care, otherwise they wouldn't have waived him in the 1st place. GB has a pretty good coaching staff. Just because he's in the mix with a bunch of other losers doesn't mean anything. As I've said, he could "win" the job this year & be gone before next season.

I am deeply sorry for my comparison of Brian Brohm to Bruce Mathison. Dear Mr Mathison, If you are viewing this board I apologize to you for comparing you with Brian Brohm. Mr. Mathison, you started 7 games in the NFL & and Brian Brohm has and probably only will have 1 NFL start before he joins you in retirement as an NFL player. I will refrain from any further insults to you, Mr. Mathison by comparing you any further to a player with only one NFL start. As for rooting for the Bills to lose to get a better pick, if the Bills are 2-13 going into week 17 against the Jets and have a shot at the 1st pick with a chance of finally getting a franchise QB if they lose the game you're damn right I'm going to root for the Jets. Heck, I might just go down to the game & root in person. Anyone who would rather get win 3,4, or 5 in a totally lost season, just to say something like "Yeah, we beat the Jets" doesn't understand why we've been so bad for so long. Go ahead & trot out the Couchs, Leafs & Akili Smiths, but if a guy comparable to a Manning or Aikman is available next year & one more lousy loss assures us the rights to draft him I'll stand by my choice.

Ok, I'll expand the sample-when was the last time a 1st or 2nd round QB was cut by his draft team, on his 1st contract, and ever succeeded with another team? When a team puts that high round QB draft pick on waivers they're saying he's a lost cause, and they're always right, no matter how many more chances other teams are willing to give them. There are plenty of former 1s that failed and were waived, and none of them came back to haunt his old team. Now the key is they are so worthless that you can't even get a decent pick for them, this includes the ones who got low picks like Harrington & McNown. The only examples of guys who got traded were ones like Favre, who a year after being a 2nd rounder was traded for a 1st rounder-totally different situation than being tossed aside like trash. QB is football's premium position, when a team jettisons a high QB pick, there's a lot of thought put into it, it's not a spur of the moment decision. If another team thinks the guy has an ounce of talent they put in a waiver claim, especially if he's a high enough profile guy like Brohm. The fact that 31 other GMs let him sail through waivers says everything you need to know about Brohm.

Your post sums up the state of the Bills' QBs. Nobody on this team will win the job. The starter will be the lesser of 4 evils. Even though I have completely written off Brian Brohm's chances of ever being a successful NFL QB, if he's the least evil of our QBs, he could end up as our starter. However, if he does, his stint as the starter & as a Bills QB will eventually mirror the stint of Bruce Mathison-starter one year, waived the next.