folz

As others stated, Rasul and Christian have now started 11 games together (Benford missed two games last year after Rasul arrived)....and, yes, they look pretty darn good right now. Now, of course, the stats won't tell the full story because it's so early this season, and Rasul didn't start for the Bills until week 9 last year (though he did play 53% of last season for the Bills). But, for what it's worth: 2023 Bills 7th in passing yards allowed tied for 2nd in Interceptions tied for 2nd in passing touchdowns allowed 6th in Net passing yards per attempt 2024 (2 games) 12th in passing yards allowed tied for 3rd in interceptions tied for 3rd in passing TDs allowed 5th in Net passing yards per attempt As far as against upper echelon players (since Rasul arrived), you could say they have been lock down the first two games this year...but we need a bigger sample size, as last year was a bit of a mixed bag (well, basically the Chiefs, Eagles, and Bengals did well against our pass defense, but our boys pretty much held their own against everyone else). [I didn't include games like the Chargers who were starting a backup QB and missing WRs---just the teams or players that would be considered upper tier when both Douglas and Benford were starting.] [Red = held in check; Green = good game for the player; Blue = ok game for player.] 2024 AZ: Marvin Harrison, Jr. 1 for 4, 0 TDs; Dortch 6 for 47, 0 TDs; Murray 21 of 31 for 162, 1 TD 0 INTs MIA: Tyreek Hill 3 for 24, 0 TDs; Waddle 4 for 41, 0 TDs; Tua T. 17 of 25 for 145, 1 TD 3 INTs 2023: CIN: Jamar Chase 4 for 41, 0 TDs; Tee Higgins 8 for 110, 0 TDs; Burrow 31 of 44 for 348, 2 TDs 0 INTs (this was the first game as a Bill for Rasul) Jets: Garrett Wilson 2 for 9 yards, 0 TDs Eagles: DeVonta Smith 7 for 106, 1 TD; A.J. Brown 5 for 37, 1 TD; Hurts 18 of 31 for 200 yards, 3 TDs 1 INT Chiefs: Kelce 6 for 83, 0 TDs; Rashee Rice 7 for 72, 1 TD; Mahomes 25 of 43 for 271, 1 TD 1 INT Cowboys: CeeDee Lamb 7 for 53, 0 TDs; Brandin Cooks 2 for 10, 0 TDs; Prescott 21 of 34 for 134, 0 TDs, 1 INT Dolphins: Tyreek Hill 7 for 82, 1 TD; Tua 17 of 27 for 173, 1 TD 2 INTs Pittsburgh: Pickens 5 for 50, 0 TDs, Diontae Johnson 4 for 48, 1 TD I do think that Taron is one of the best slot corners in the league, Rasul was a great pickup by Beane, Benford has been really solid since he started, and the UB kids have been balling out. Elam's got the talent if he could just put it all together. As a whole, the secondary is definitely a top-10 squad dating back to last year. And if they keep up the level of play from the first two weeks this season, they may be top 5...or better (especially once Taron is back and if Cole comes on at safety as we hope he will). But, either way, they have been playing well and I'm glad to feel confident in our secondary right now. It was a big question mark coming into the season (more so due to the safeties of course). Let's hope this trend continues.

Agreed. What time is actual kickoff...gonna find something else to do till then. GO BILLS!

I was old enough to have seen Frank Lewis, Jerry Butler, and Bobby Chandler play (well, the tail-end of Chandler's career). But, I was curious if older fans who got to see him play would put Dubenion on the list. He's 5th on the Bills all-time receiving list (just 78 yards behind Diggs---though over 9 years as opposed to 4, but it was the 1960s...talk about a different era).

Yeah, ok, maybe my memory was exaggerating a bit with 3-4 years...but I do remember conversations where Reed was being compared with Rice as the best in the league (in the national media---not just by Bills fans). Probably 1989/1990...in '89 Reed was 2nd in receptions and 5th in receiving yards, and then in 1990 the Bills unleashed the K-Gun offense and went to their first Super Bowl. Remember that offense was lighting up everyone and they got a ton of press for it. But there was also that game between Buffalo and San Fran at the start of the '92 season where Reed went 10 for 144 yards in a 34-31 epic (Rice was 3 for 26). So, maybe my memory is conflating a few things too. Obviously, overall career-wise Rice is definitely in a league of his own. And looking back, yeah, no one was his equal in any season really. But, at that time... As to the other guys you mentioned, Rison didn't come on until 1990, Irvin didn't have a big year until 1991, Brown and Carter didn't really break out until 1993, Monk was never really considered the best in the league despite good numbers, but he was also in a bit of a lull in his career in '87, '88, and '90---numbers-wise, Clark retired in '87 and hadn't had over 900 yards since 1982. So, as far as '88-'90 goes, Sharpe and Henry Ellard were the only other guys in the conversation really (with Rice and Reed). But Sharpe didn't make the playoffs until 1993, while Reed and Rice were going to Super Bowls. So, it probably wouldn't be too surprising if Reed got more hype because of the Bills post-seasons. Now, yes, by say 1993-1994 when discussing best '90s wide receivers, there were a lot of guys in the convo and Reed was just one of the other guys behind Rice. But back to the Diggs talk, he's not in Rice's league either and when discussing best WRs of this era, Diggs will also be one of many top WRs, not the best.

Using back-to-back 1,000-yard seasons seems like a very selective bar to set. First of all, it was a different era with a lot less passing and when CBs could still maul receivers and light them up over the middle of the field (where Reed made his bread and butter). Secondly, Reed did have four 1,000 yard seasons. They just weren't consecutive. I mean Stevie Johnson had 3 back-to-back 1,000 yard seasons. Does that mean he is better than Reed too? And it's not like the drop off was severe on the seasons when Reed didn't have 1,000 yards. He was only 174 yards total away from having 5 consecutive 1,000-yard seasons. Or from 1989-1996 (minus 1995 when he was injured) he averaged 1,056 yards and 7 TDs per season. So, he didn't have back-to-back 1,000 yard seasons, but he did average over 1,000 yards per season for 9 years, and back in the old days. First 10 years in the league: Andre Reed 9,536 yards and 66 TDs Stefon Diggs 10,028 yards and 69 TDs So, Stef averaged less than 50 yards per season more than Reed...or 3 yards per game more over their first 10 years...and again factor in the eras they played in and that the 90s teams had a lot more weapons to spread the ball around to---Thurman, Lofton, etc. Reed made the Pro Bowl in 7 consecutive seasons. Stefon has 4 consecutive Pro Bowls (all while with the Bills)---and he probably didn't really deserve the nod for last season. They both have two All-Pro seasons. Reed is a HOFer and a Wall of Famer. Diggs may possibly make the HOF...but I doubt that he'll ever make the Wall of Fame. Plus, it's hard to say a guy who played four seasons is a better Bills receiver than a guy who played 15 years for the team and was every bit as good or better for most of that time. I am not going to assume that you were too young to actually watch Reed. But some people forget or don't know that for 3 or 4 years (88-91) Reed was the only other receiver in the conversation with Jerry Rice for best WR in the league (for those years as they were happening, not overall career). I think people forget just how good Andre was. Anyhow, I don't mean to pile on. I understand where you are coming from with Diggs. I loved watching Diggs play and I'm glad that he was a Bill, even if it didn't end well. Those first couple of years with Josh and Stef were hell'a fun and will always be remembered. And I'm not a fan who hates on every player that leaves Buffalo. But I do hold a little grudge for guys who quit on the team in some way (Gilmore, Dareus, Phillips, Byrd, etc). And Stefon, for all the good he did here, caused problems and ultimately quit on the team. I still acknowledge that he is a great receiver (one of the best we've had), and I won't root against him, but no way does he surpass Reed in any avenue or reference to Bills WRs. P.S. Ethan...the Moulds question is an interesting one. Over a 7-year period, he averaged 1,100 yards and 6 TDs with the Bills (with his QBs being Flutie, Johnson, Van Pelt, and Bledsoe). I think I would have to put him ahead of Diggs as well (as far as best Bills WRs). Lee Evans is the only other Bills receiver (besides Reed and Moulds) with more yards as a Bill than Diggs. But Lee was never in the class of the other three.

That wasn't a hurtle, that was a tour jette. [For the dancers out there] We knew Josh was a tough and athletic SOB, but he's balletic too.

Josh is a generational, dual-threat QB. And being a QB means he touches the ball on every offensive play. So, it will always look like Josh is doing everything...because he is just that good at everything he does. Even if he had a team of all-stars around him, Josh would still be doing what he's doing. You just wouldn't be able to claim that it was because of a lack of talent around him. P.S. Our talent-level is fine. Also, it was game one and Josh is still getting comfortable with his new weapons. Remember, Shakir was the only WR who had caught a pass from Josh in a game prior to Sunday. And as Josh said in his post-game interview, Keon was open in the end zone on one of his rushing TDs, but he decided to take it in himself. Maybe his competitive nature made him make that decision, because Keon was a rookie in his first game. But as they all get more comfortable with each other and the WRs keep making plays, Josh will trust his weapons more and more and not feel he has to do as much maybe.

Yes, with 17 games/year, sometimes the post-game speeches sound a bit repetitive. But 2 or 3 times a year, McD's post-game speeches actually make me tear up a bit. And this was one of them. This speech is also another reason why I love McD as a coach. I like how he cares for his players and how he motivates his players. To call a kid, who just weeks ago was fighting just to make the team, up in front of the team after week 1 as an example for all of them is awesome. And you want to talk about humble and hungry? Look at Ja'Marcus Ingram's face as McD is talking. That was big for him. I could hear him talking to his folks about it later that night and how excited and proud they would be, etc.* People may joke about the family-aspect to the team, or Beane and McD wanting all choir boys, etc. But for me at least, it makes the team more enjoyable to root for. And I don't think the players are cringing, or holding back laughter. I think this team is still fully on board with McD's style and message. *Edit: I just learned from Ja'Marcus's interview that his dad passed away. Makes that moment even more tender.

Everyone eats... Coleman 4 receptions for 51 yards Shakir 3 receptions for 42 yards and a TD Hollins 2 receptions for 25 yards and a TD Samuel 2 receptions for 15 yards MVS 1 reception for 19 yards Wide receivers had 152 yards and 2 TDs in week one. Good start. Including TEs and RBs, 9 players caught a ball from Josh today (10 players were targeted). I also liked that the all 3 running backs had carries and passing targets. Every receiver had a catch. 2 of 3 TEs had a catch. Morris also played but was not targeted. But yeah, everyone eats.

If you put enough qualifiers on something (7 years, same team, 5 years, same QB, etc.) you can create a stat that appears to prove any point. Also, it is really hard to prove that something is impossible when it is statistically possible. As long as McD is a head coach, there is a statistical possibility of him winning a Super Bowl. Can I prove he will win a Super Bowl? No. But can anyone prove that he can't/won't win a Super Bowl? Also no. Of the 35 Super Bowl winning head coaches, 11 of them took 7+ years to win their first Super Bowl. That is 31.4% of them, or almost 1/3 of SB winning coaches took more than 7 years to win their first one. Here are the number of years it took for those 11 coaches to win the big game: 7, 8, 8, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 12 14, and 21 years. Only 3 of the 11 had made a SB appearance (loss) prior to winning. So, there are 8 SB-winning head coaches who didn't even make a SB appearance until 7+ years into their head coaching career. Whether it was with another team or another QB doesn't really add much to the discussion imo because each situation is unique. For instance, did the coach start with a vet QB in the prime of his career? Or a rookie who is pro ready? Or a rookie QB who is raw? Or did he not get his franchise QB until year 2 or 3? Did the coach take over a team that was talented and on the verge of being a consistent winner? Or did the coach take over a team that was devoid of talent or needed to be gutted...a rebuild? Without the context of each situation, those qualifiers aren't really useful for comparison. The fact that 11 guys have won a SB after 7+ years of head coaching doesn't prove McD will do it, but I think it does disprove any stat that is trying to say that it is impossible for him to do it.

Man...I can't wait for the Bills to actually start playing games and getting some wins. There is just so much negativity around the Bills this year, both nationally and within our own fan base. I have a hard time understanding it. Maybe I'm the one being delusional, but I think we are still going to be a very good team this year. I mean good for Worthy and good for KC. But as others have said, Worthy was the right fit for KC, but he was obviously not what the Bills were looking for. He didn't fit the Bills...so to me it is much to do about nothing. I could care less what the Twitter(X)-verse has to say, but to ride the Bills for not drafting a player they didn't want, and for maximizing their draft value accordingly, seems silly. There are only two scenarios where this will be a bad trade for the Bills. #1 If Worthy continues to go off and has an amazing rookie year, while Coleman never really comes along. Or #2 if the Bills and KC meet in the playoffs again and Worthy is the MAIN reason that KC beats us. Neither of those scenarios will be determined until at least much later this year, so...nothing to see here. I really can't wait until Sunday. I'm so done with this offseason.

Guys, I think you are thinking of Hollins in the wrong way. Just because he is listed as the starting outside receiver on the depth chart does not mean he is Josh's second target. First of all, McD always defers to vets on depth charts, etc. He wants the young guys to have to prove it and overtake the vet. And, it is a respect thing. The vets have earned their stripes in the league. Second, Hollins is an excellent blocker and a big body. Gabe Davis might not have had great hands, but he was a big asset as a blocker. He's gone. And we plan to run the ball more this year, so Hollins will help in that department and as a possession receiver for Josh. Plus, as far as target share goes, Kincaid, Shakir, Samuel, Coleman...and perhaps even Cook and Knox will get more targets than Hollins most likely. So, despite being listed as the "number two," he will probably be 5th-7th in actual targets. The Bills aren't looking for him to have a 700-800 yard year. That's for the other guys. Hollins is there to block and be a big body available for Josh on third downs or short yardage, etc. Plus, there will be a lot of rotating of the pass catchers, I would assume. I don't expect to see Hollins out there as the boundary receiver on every play the whole year. It will be situational dependent. Sometimes Shakir will be outside, sometimes it will be Coleman, or even MVS depending on the situation. I do expect to see Hollins out there say in 4-minute drills when we are trying to run the ball to run out the clock, etc. We don't really know what Brady's offense will look like yet, or how Hollins fits exactly. He could actually surprise some of you (not in going off for a ton of yards, but in how his role actually helps the team). We'll see.

My biggest concern with Martin last year was how long it took him to get the ball off. Too often it looked close to getting blocked. I feel like I saw an improvement in that this preseason (though in a very small sample size). But hopefully, he has improved the speed of his release.

Keep pushing that goalpost... The original posts were about Brandon doing a good job drafting late round talent. So even if a guy is on a different squad at this point, for whatever reason, it still means it was a good pick (a talented player), and if they are still in the organization (practice squad) again, they're good enough for the organization to still be grooming them (they weren't complete busts and out of the league, i.e. a bad pick). But to satisfy you, there are 17 players still on the active roster. Or 1/3 of our roster came from rounds 4 or later. Considering free agency and that the better players are drafted in rounds 1-3 (generally 62% of a team's starters), I would guess that that is probably still a pretty good percentage. Plus, it ignores guys that we got a lot of production from, but for whatever reason (money, cap, wanting to improve the position) they have moved on. Siran Neal (played 6 years for the Bills), Gabe Davis (played 4 years for the Bills), Ike Boettger (5 years, 17 starts), Levi Wallace (4 years, 52 starts), Tyrell Dodson (4 years). According to you, since they are no longer on the roster, they don't count as pluses for Beane. They automatically get logged as bad picks? Come on. Seriously, I don't know what you guys expect. How many teams/GMs do you think are finding lots of high-quality starters that last more than 4 or 5 years on a team in rounds 4 or later? Mr. WEO, pick your favorite GM, the best GM in the league and I'll take a look at his rate of late round picks and we can compare.

Well, considering that 62% of NFL starters over the last 5 years (per the link below*) came from rounds 1-3, you probably aren't going to see a lot of high-end starters drafted rounds 4 or later for most teams. You will see a lot of spot-starters, depth players, and special teamers. The percentages for other rounds goes like this (as far as the number of NFL starters coming from that round): Round 4 10.31% Round 5 7.47% Round 6 4.8% Round 7 3.21% Undrafted 12.19% And that is not making a judgement call about how reliable a starter they are (like you did in your post). A lot of guys that fall into those percentages for other teams probably wouldn't make your qualifications either. Plus, I think you are being a bit unfair. First, you are automatically excluding Bass and Araiza. You didn't include Shakir (he already has 12 starts and will be a starter this year). You also excluded a lot of players who have started games for the Bills. I understand that you are looking for a certain level of play. But considering the percentages above, you can't really eliminate all of those guys when trying to evaluate Brandon's drafting. You can't look at it in a vacuum. It has to be in comparison to other teams/GMs. My list would look like this (not counting this year's draft yet, obviously) 4th Round: Taron Johnson, Gabe Davis 5th round: Wyatt Teller, Khalil Shakir 6th round: Tyler Bass, Matt Araiza, Christian Benford, Damar Hamlin (13 starts) 7th round: Dane Jackson (he's started 28 games for the Bills) Undrafted: Ike Boettger (17 starts), Levi Wallace (52 starts for the Bills),Tyrell Dodson (15 starts), Cam Lewis (4 starts), Robert Foster (7 starts), Reggie Gilliam (9 starts) *https://sports.yahoo.com/the-nfl-drafts-secret-round-170012115.html#:~:text=In 2023%2C 194 Week 1,taken in the third round.

Of the 53 players that I listed (Beane's picks rounds 4-7, plus UDFAs and tryout guys) -28 players (53%) are still on the Bills roster, practice squad, or PUP -37 of 53 players (70%) are still in the league (currently rostered by an NFL squad) -12 of the 53 players are out of the league -4 players were just cut on Tuesday (so currently out of the league, but could still possibly get picked up). So, at the start of training camps this year, 77.4% of Beane's late picks were still in the league. Considering the average NFL football career is 3.3 years. I would think that after 7 years to still have 53% on your roster and 70-77% still in the league must be pretty darn good percentages.

Bobby Babich, Jr. Played DB at North Dakota State (led the team in INTs his senior year) Coaching: 2006 Kent State Graduate Assistant 2007-2010 Eastern Illinois Secondary Coach 2011-2012 Carolina Panthers Defensive Assistant 2013-2015 Cleveland Browns Assistant Secondary Coach (DBs/Safeties) 2016 FIU Secondary Coach/Defensive Pass Game Coordinator 2017-2023 Buffalo Bills 2017 Assistant DBs coach 2018-2021 Safeties coach 2022-2023 Linebackers coach Son of coach Bob Babich, Sr. who spent 19 years coaching in the NFL (mostly as a LBers coach; 1 as ST coordinator; and 3 years as a DC), the last 5 years as the Buffalo Bills Linebackers coach. His son took over the Buffalo Linebacking coaching position on his retirement (moving over from coaching the Bills' safeties). The father and son did not coach together until Bobby, jr. was hired by the Bills in 2017. I didn't quote you, but I hope you're still reading this thread Mr. WEO Rather than being a scapegoat, maybe McD (and the other teams that interviewed him) think highly of him because of his pedigree (growing up a coaches son) and because Hyde and Poyer became one of the best safety tandems in the league under his coaching, and Terrell Bernard was developed and broke out under Babich, jr. after he had taken over linebacking duties. McD has had 7 years to evaluate the younger Babich (and to see how he is developing and coaching his players) and to train him in his system. It is not uncommon for internal hires on the side of the ball that the head coach comes from because the head coach still wants his system run. He wants someone who knows his system, how it works, how to develop players in that system, etc. Look at Andy Reid: In KC, he hired Doug Pederson as his first OC (Pederson had been with Reid for 4 years in PHI, the last two years as his QB coach, before they moved together to KC and Reid promoted him to OC); Reid's next OC in KC was Eric Bienemy (promoted from within, he had been KC's RB coach for 5 years under Reid); and finally, Reid hired Matt Nagy as his current OC (promoted from KC Quarterbacks coach). Yes, Nagy spent 4 years as the Bears HC before coming back to KC as QB coach...but he also spent 10 years coaching under Reid before getting the Chicago job. They were all Reid's guys, promoted from within. How about Tomlin in Pittsburgh? Well, he inherited Dick Lebeau and kept him on for 8 years. His next DC was Keith Butler, who was promoted from within (he had been the Steelers LBers coach for 8 years under Tomlin); when Butler retired, Tomlin promoted Teryl Austin from within the organization (he had been a Steelers secondary coordinator for 3 years). So, again, not uncommon for a HC to hire from within on his side of the ball. Now sure, you can complain that Brady was an internal hire too as he was our QB coach for 1-1/2 seasons before being promoted to OC. But, he wasn't a true internal hire as he wasn't groomed in our organization or under McD, he had already been an OC for two years in Carolina, and he really hadn't been with the organization long. I know some will also complain about the ties with Carolina. But maybe, just maybe, because of those ties, Beane and McD saw an up-and-coming coach and pulled him onto their staff before he went somewhere else. Now, his time in Carolina may not have been stellar, but look at what he had to work with: 2020: CMC (for 3 games only, injury); QB post-injury Teddy Bridgewater; RB Mike Davis; WRs D.J. Moore and Curtis Samuel (good receivers, but otherwise...) 2021: CMC (for 7 games only, injury); QB Sam Darnold; RB Chubba Hubbard; WRs D.J. Moore and Robbie Chosen (so basically DJ Moore and CMC for 7 games, otherwise, yuck). I have no idea about their offensive lines at the time, but my guess is they didn't have All-Pros across the board. And I am assuming that both years, that offense was supposed to run through CMC, yet due to injury, he only played 30% of Carolina's games over those two years. Actually less, because both years he got injured, came back, and got injured again. So that is four games that he had to exit early due to injury. So, it was really more like CMC only played about 19-23% of Carolina's games/snaps during Brady's two-year tenure. Tough when you have no QB and you lose your best weapon. Anyhow, back to Babich. I think it is a good thing that McDermott gave him the reigns and I think he will bring that fire to the defense that many of us felt they lacked under Frasier. They were a bit more so under McD last year, but I think Babich can take it to another level. Here's hoping. 🤞

For reference, here are Beane's post-day 2 picks (rounds 4-7, UDFAs, tryouts) (I only included UDFAs that made the team, practice squad, or had some impact---sorry if I missed someone). 2018 2019 2020 2021 4 Taron Johnson 5 Vosean Joseph 4 Gabe Davis 5 Tommy Doyle 5 Siran Neal 6 Jaquan Johnson 5 Jake Fromm 6 Marquez Stevenson 5 Wyatt Teller 7 Darryl Johnson 6 Tyler Bass 6 Damar Hamlin 6 Ray Ray McCloud 7 Tommy Sweeney 6 Isaiah Hodgins 6 Rachad Wildgoose UDFA Robert Foster UDFA Tyrel Dodson 7 Dane Jackson 7 Jack Anderson UDFA Ike Boettger UDFA Cam Lewis UDFA Antonio Williams UDFA Quinton Morris UDFA Levi Wallace UDFA Reggie Gilliam UDFA Cam Phillips UDFA Mike Love 2022 2023 2024 5 Khalil Shakir 5 Justin Shorter 4 Ray Davis 6 Matt Araiza 7 Nick Broeker 5 Sedrick VanPran-Granger 6 Christian Benford 7 Alex Austin 5 Ede Ulofoshio 6 Luke Tenuta UDFA Tyrell Shavers 5 Javon Soloman 7 Baylon Spector UDFA Richard Gouraige 6 Tylan Grable UDFA Kingsley Jonathan 6 Daequan Hardy UDFA Alec Anderson 7 Travis Clyton Tryout Ja'Marcus Ingram UDFA Frank Gore, Jr. UDFA Branson Deen UDFA Mike Edwards UDFA Te'Cory Couch Tryout Joe Andreessen

This post isn't pessimistic, or "realist" talk, it is delusional. Feels like you are just making stuff up. 1. 2024 has already been and will continue to be a year of change for the Bills franchise. This is the only point of agreement I have with you. Then you went off the rails. 2. Like it or not, 2024 is lost. Why? We still have an elite QB, plenty of weapons, a solid defense. It may take them a little time to get on their feet with the changes and injuries, but there is no reason this team can't still win the division and make a playoff run. If we can enter the playoffs somewhat healthy, we'll be better than the team that limped into the playoffs last year. 3. We got rid of our best non-QB offensive weapon. I loved Diggs and what he brought to the team his first three years here. But at the end of last season, not only did he not want to be here (something you said later in your post that we need to get rid of...guys who don't want to be here), and was causing issues in the locker room, but worse, on the field, over the last 10 games, including the playoffs, he averaged 42 yards per game. And he had one total touchdown over those 10 games. Not an average of 1 TD per game, but only ONE TD over 10 games. His catch percentage over those games was a miserable 67%. He was dropping balls and fumbled in the playoff game. Whether it was age, injury, bitterness, or all of the above, he was no longer our best offensive weapon. Kincaid, Shakir, and Cook had all surpassed him in stats and effectiveness. And if it wasn't age or injury, then that means he kind of quit on the team. That isn't leadership. 4. We decided to get rid of leadership anywhere and everywhere we could. This is a bit disingenuous. They didn't just toss leaders aside for no reason. Due to age/health, it was time to move on from Poyer, Hyde, Morse, Tre. Maybe Poyer could have given us one or two more years, but better to move on early than late. Morse was a great leader, but never the most stout center up the middle. So, there is a reason for trying something different there too (not to mention his number of concussions). This happens to teams, older leaders age out and new, young leaders need to step up. That's the NFL. Plus, as I noted above, I don't think you can include Diggs in the leadership department. He was fiery and competitive, but not a true leader (Though he wasn't competitive enough to try hard down the stretch last year---I guess it's just when it suits him). 5. We have a coach that prefers defense to offense This is a fallacy that keeps getting repeated. What is your evidence for this? You do realize that over the last four years, the Bills are 2nd in yards, 2nd in scoring, 2nd in overall wins, 1st in total TDs scored, 1st in points/game, and 1st in 3rd down conversions. Yeah, McDermott really stifles the offense, huh? I recently made a post about our drafting (in regards to offense vs. defense). We have drafted more offensive players than defensive players overall under Beane. In fact, outside of round one, we have the same number or more offensive players selected in every other round. As far as round one goes, it is 4 defensive players to 2 offensive players. But if you include the #1 that was given up for Diggs, then it is 3 offensive players to 4 defensive players. So, the absolute most you can say about our drafting (per GoBills808 in the linked thread) is that the the total weighted value of all of our picks favors the defense (because of those 4 #1 defensive picks---but again, that doesn't weigh in the picks given up for Diggs, which would make things almost even). So, please explain to me how/why McD prefers defense to offense, other than he is a defensive head coach. Where has that hurt our offense to this point? Where are the facts to back your statement up? 6. opted for ineptitude at OC for this year. An off season hiring of a real OC, not a puppet. How or why is Brady inept and a puppet? This is just a ridiculous statement. We did better under him than Dorsey last year (that was when we made our run) and he is respected in the league. A lot of people talked about him as an upcoming coach before he got to Buffalo. We haven't even seen what his offense will really look like (now that he had a full-offseason to plan it out and install it). He has had 9 games as OC for the Bills using someone else's system. We went 7-2 in those games and averaged 27.11 points/game. Our two losses were both by 3 points and one of those was in OT. How are you so sure that he is inept? 7. There are clearly players still on the roster that either shouldn’t be, or who the coaches would prefer off. Who? This statement is so out of left field. First of all, Beane and McDermott have shown that they can cut bait with players when they need to. Secondly, even if a guy isn't as good as you might want, you don't drop them until you have better. But, honestly, who specifically are you talking about? 8. McDermott fully realizing complementary football doesn’t simply mean a nerfed and vanilla offense. As the offensive stats show above, we have hardly been a vanilla offense over the last 5 years. Plus, where have we struggled? Late in the year when the weather turns bad and we go up against a stronger, bully-like team (KC/Cinn). Maybe, just maybe, having a strong run game will allow us to still compete when our passing game is struggling or allow us to close out games where we have the lead. Plus, our receivers aren't smurfs anymore that can get manhandled in the playoffs. And who is to say having a better run game, or a more even split makes the offense vanilla. Maybe it will help to open things up for the passing game. 9. Apparently some our our leaders and their styles hurt the feelings of some snowflakes so Diggs, Morse, Tre, Poyer, and more are gone. Obviously, you are solely talking about Diggs here. Morse, Tre, and Poyer had good relationships with Josh and the coaches. And as a fan, none of them ever did anything to make me think they weren't good leaders. So, this is all about Diggs again. And didn't he do the same thing in Minnesota? Maybe it's Diggs and not Josh, Sean, the Bills fanbase, Cousins, Zimmer, etc. A true leader remains a leader in tough times. They are not selfish. They do not quit on their team. They try to work things out, not foster ill will. As I said before, Diggs was competitive (when he felt like it), but he is definitely not a true leader, despite being voted captain. 10. the amount of respect for Josh around the league is slim to none, I wonder how much of that stems from his lack of seriousness. First of all, I do not think this is true. Just because we get an occasional article with someone saying he's overrated? Besides, what does that have to do with anything? Josh has been battling disrespect since he was in high school. And it doesn't matter what anyone thinks of him, it only matters what he does for our team. Yes, there has been some talk about him stepping up his leadership, and I think that will be easier with Diggs gone. But Josh is who he is. You take the good with the bad. And I'd rather root for a guy that is having fun playing the sport and with his teammates than some dick like Brady. 11. McDermott either deciding to simply get rid of players he doesn’t like or deciding to live with them. back handed compliments Again, what are you talking about? I think for the most part McD is very fair in his pressers. He doesn't praise a lot because he doesn't want guys to get complacent. And sometimes he says something to motivate a guy. But it's not like he is continually throwing guys under the bus or something. And which players did he get rid of because he didn't like (or living with them despite his dislike). I'm not saying there aren't guys he doesn't like or doesn't want to improve on...but with 90+ players at times, or even the 69 that they will carry into the year, you aren't going to like or gel with everyone. But you make this sound like it is something constant and obvious. Who are these players that McD doesn't like? Let me guess, Diggs. 12. Let players that clearly don’t want to be here walk, I’m not sure why Douglas doesn’t want to be here but it’s pretty obvious. Like Diggs? And what makes you think Rasul doesn't want to be here? I haven't seen anything at all. He seemed pretty happy to be here at the end of last year. Where are these obvious signs that you are seeing? It really feels like you are just making stuff up. 13. goofball leadership...Dawkins and Knox...don’t appear to take winning seriously. I assume you aren't speaking of just Dawkins and Knox, but also Josh. First of all, I don't think that Knox has ever been considered a leader on the team (he's never been a captain or overly vocal). And Dawkins is definitely a quirky guy, but that's just his personality. Please give me examples of them not taking winning seriously. Where is that coming from? Just because they like to make jokes in the locker room or because Dion uses cliches and metaphors in his interviews? Do you just want everyone on the team to be stoic all the time? One of the reasons guys like being in Buffalo is because Sean allows them to be themselves, show their personalities. Again, I have a feeling this is more about Josh for you. I guess you think that Josh needs to be more of a dick like Brady was. Well, I'd rather not root for a guy like that. And similar to coaching. The tough guy coach that yells and screams all the time isn't always successful (Gregg Williams types), while guys like Dick Vermeil who cries after winning a Super Bowl because he's so happy for his players can be successful. Josh doesn't have to treat his teammates poorly to be a great QB. Let them have fun! I think it's more fun for the fans if the players are having fun. And look around the league. Just for one example, Mahomes and Kelce are both goofballs, hasn't seemed to hurt them.

Well, according to NFL.com, there are about 500 undrafted players on 53-man rosters. That is 29.5% of the league. So, nearly 1/3 of the league went undrafted. Of course, they didn't denote which were priority UDFA and which may have been tryout guys. I couldn't find much info on tryout players, but here is a 2018 article from the Tampa Bay Bucs listing 5 tryout players who have made the Bucs 53-man roster. That meets your "one hand" prediction from just one team (out of 32). https://www.buccaneers.com/news/five-times-a-tryout-player-made-it-20627393 RB Clifton Smith, T Demar Dotson, DE George Johnson, WR Donteea Dye, WR Adam Humphries. Combined they played 28 seasons in the NFL. I couldn't find any comprehensive list, but here are a few more guys I found that made it in the NFL off of tryouts: Adam Thielen, Malcolm Butler, John Randle, Antonio Gates, Chris Harris, Jr., James Harrison, Wayne Chrebet, Michael Lewis, Gunner Olszewski, D'ernest Johnson, Charcandrick West, Bernie Parmalee.

I am not someone that gets hyped over bottom-of-the-roster preseason warriors. Like a receiver who makes a couple of nice grabs in the preseason vs. 3s and 4s. But I have watched a lot of football, and Joe certainly passed the eye test for me. It's not like he played a few snaps and made a couple of nice plays. He was around the football on every single play whether he ended up making the play or not---and versus the ones, twos, and threes of Pitt. You can't teach those instincts and not every player has them. That's what stood out initially about Milano too (a 5th round pick that many fans didn't expect much out of), those instincts---having a nose for the ball, as they say. And it seemed the majority of Bills fans also didn't expect Bernard to be anything but a wasted pick. Maybe, just maybe, Brandon, Sean, and Bobby are better judges of LBs for our system than many of us are. I don't think Joe is in any danger of falling off the roster or just a feel good story. I think he's the real deal.

Fair enough, with the picks after Josh. If you include Tremaine (in the same draft as Josh) our #1 picks after Josh have been defense/defense/defense/defense/offense. Now, if you include Josh and the 2nd rounders it is 7 defense and 6 offense, but yes, even with Josh I can see the defensive players being of a higher weighted value overall. I guess to be fair (based on where each player was drafted), we'd have to go back and look at each #1 defensive pick and see if there was a different offensive player that at the time was considered even or better (and to a lesser extent, filled a need for the team at the time). And is there a trend...did that happen with every one of those picks? Also, are we so sure that it is McDermott's influence alone for the defensive picks? Therefore labeling that as a reason for not hiring a defensive coach? Or did Brandon and his scouts just believe they were picking the best player on their board at the time? For instance, Rousseau seems like a very-Brandon pick (raw, high-ceiling guy). I know the reality is probably somewhere in between, sort of a consensus where McDermott did have a lot of input, I just don't know if I wouldn't hire a good defensive coach for the fear that he's only going to draft defensive players with his top picks. And though we didn't draft Diggs, that was a #1 draft pick that was used to acquire offensive talent, as NewEra pointed out. A WR for Josh Allen. So, it can't be completely discounted when saying, "no other team does that after drafting a franchise QB." if you include Josh and the pick for Diggs as an offensive acquisition, the #1 picks look like this. offense/defense/defense/offense/defense/defense/offense---3 to 4. So, I do concede your point, I think some of us just push back against the extremes of "we only pick defense" or "we pick way more defensive players," "we only use assets on the defense," etc.

You know I like to look things up... -Since Beane has been the GM (2018-2024 drafts), the Bills have made 55 total draft picks. 28 picks were on the offensive side; 25 picks on the defensive side; and 2 Special Teamers In the first 4 rounds (as mentioned in the posts above), there were 12 offensive players selected and 12 defensive players selected. In the first 3 rounds: there were 10 offensive players selected and 11 defensive players selected. Here is a breakdown by round: Rd Offense Defense ST 1st 2 4 2nd 4 3 3rd 4 4 4th 2 1 5th 6 4 6th 5 5 2 7th 5 4 Pretty balanced throughout. The only place you could say there was an imbalance maybe is in round one, but really, it's just one pick. If one of those first round defensive players was an offensive pick instead, it would be 3 to 3. And you'll also see that that is the only round where the defense has more picks. Every other round is either even or the offense got more picks.

Not really a manipulation of data, I specifically stated that players like Mahomes and Brady were the exception to the rule and I was trying to show what is the more common trend. Yes, I picked those guys specifically to show that just having an elite QB does not guarantee getting to the Super Bowl every other year. It doesn't really matter what players like Brady and Mahomes have done, my point still remains, I showed 5 elite, all-time QBs who averaged 1 Super Bowl appearance every 10 years of their careers. I didn't say every elite QB, I pointed out a handful to prove my point that just having an elite QB does not guarantee a Super Bowl appearance every year---and here are 5 examples. Not trying to hide anything or manipulate anything. I didn't purposely pick guys who didn't make Super Bowls or whatever or weren't considered elite. I picked 5 of the top 10 all-time QBs to show that not every elite QB is going to the Super Bowl every other year (like Brady and Mahomes). And the point remains. But, if you think that my cherry picking players influences the outcome, well let's take a look at a larger sample size that includes players like Mahomes, Brady, Bradshaw, etc. Below are the overall stats for a consensus top 22 QBs of all-time (I only left out players who played the majority of their careers pre-Super Bowl era: Unitas, Baugh, Graham, Starr, Dawson). [Players included in the stat below: Brady, Elway, Bradshaw, Staubach, Montana, P. Manning, Kelly, Aikman, Griese, Roethlisberger, Warner, Tarkenton, Mahomes, E. Manning, Favre, Wilson, Brees, Marino, Rodgers, Young, Moon, Fouts] So, the best 22 QBs of the Super Bowl era have made 65 Super Bowl appearances (with 39 SB wins). Combined, they played 341 seasons total. With a little math, that equates to these QBs appearing in a Super Bowl in 19% of their careers (Super Bowl wins = 11%). So, for 81% of their careers (276 seasons of play), no super Bowl appearances for these elite QBs. [Down from the 90% of the 5 QBs selected in my original post---so not that big of a difference, even including Mahomes, Brady, Bradshaw, Montana, etc.] That averages to one Super Bowl appearance every 5.2 seasons and a Super Bowl win every 9 seasons for the best to ever do it. I can hear you now say that now I'm adding too many QBs to dilute the water. So, ok, let's look at just a top 10 list. (Again not including the pre-SB era guys). For a top 10, I'll go with Brady, Mahomes, Manning, Brees, Montana, Marino, Elway, Rodgers, Young, and Favre. Combined, they played 171 seasons of football with 34 Super Bowl appearances. So, that equates to 19.88% of their combined careers did they make a Super Bowl appearance. Or again, 80% of their careers that they did not make a Super Bowl. Again, that is like 1 Super Bowl appearance every 5 years (for the 10 best QBs of All-Time). In an average of a 17-year career, that would be 3 SB appearances in a career for the best of all-time. And if you take out the outliers (as I originally stated---let's say, just Brady, Mahomes for now), then it's 20 SB appearances in 141 combined seasons for the other top-10 QBs. Then it is 86% of their careers with no SB appearances. Or 1 Super Bowl appearance every 7 years. And if you also remove Elway (along with Brady and Mahomes), then it is 15 SB appearances in 125 seasons, or 88% of their careers no SB appearance. That equates to 1 SB appearance every 9 years for seven of the top 10 QBs of all-time. So, the best to ever play the game are only making a Super Bowl appearance every 5-10 years. And if you take out the 2-3 outliers, it is more like every 7-10 years. I think my point stands...just having an elite QB does not guarantee Super Bowl appearances every year or even every other year (unless your name is Brady or Mahomes). Josh has played 6 seasons thus far, but let's face it, he came in a lot more raw than a lot of other QBs too. So, it has really only been like 4 seasons of elite play by Josh. But still, in 6 seasons, he has come close to a SB appearance twice (the AFC Championship game and the 13 seconds year).

I'm repeating this from a post I made a while ago. You guys need to get over this idea that just because you have an elite QB you should be in the Super Bowl every year or every other year (or the coach sucks). But, that's not the NFL. It's just not as easy as you guys think. That is the exception (Brady/Mahomes), not the rule, as I show below. -Drew Brees (future HOF, top 5 all-time QB): 1 Super Bowl appearance (win) in 20 years (with Sean Payton as his coach for most of his career) -Peyton Manning (HOF, top 3 all-time QB): 2 Super Bowl appearances (1 win) in his first 13 years with Indy (HOF Tony Dungy coaching a good chunk) -Dan Marino (HOF, top 10 all-time QB): 1 Super Bowl appearance (loss) in 17 years (with HOF Don Shula as his coach) -Aaron Rodgers (future HOF, top 10 All-time QB): 1 Super Bowl appearance (win) in 19 seasons -Brett Favre (HOF, top 10-12 All-Time QB): 2 Super Bowl appearances (1 win) in 20 years (Mike Holmgren coaching for much of his career) So, that is a total of 89 seasons from these top-10 All-Time QBs (who all had excellent to HOF coaching for most of their careers) and only 4 Super Bowl wins between them (7 Super Bowl appearances). So, that means there were 82 of 89 seasons where these top-10, HOF QBs didn't even make a Super Bowl appearance (that's 92% of their careers). Even if we add Peyton's time (and SBs) in Denver (when he was a shell of himself), it is still 84 of 93 seasons not making a Super Bowl appearance (or 90% of the time). Just because we have Josh doesn't make it automatic. Of course, part of the problem for Peyton and Dan Marino were Brady/Pats and Kelly/Bills, respectively. Similar to Josh with Mahomes/Chiefs. Plus there is luck, injuries, salary caps, etc. to weigh in each season. I have heard this sentiment a good bit over the last couple years (the bolded). I know the NFL is leaning to hiring offensive head coaches, but having a defensive head coach hasn't exactly been a drag for our offense. Over the last 5 years (2019-2023), the Bills are 2nd in overall wins; 5th in total points scored; 4th in total TDs; 2nd in 3rd down conversion %; 3rd in total first downs. It's not like our offense has been hamstrung by it. And, just for example, many talked about wanting Sean Payton before he went to Denver. An offensive-minded coach who has won a Super Bowl. But, as my post above shows, Payton had HOF QB Drew Brees for 15 seasons and only made one Super Bowl appearance (which of course was a win)---and had a couple of heart-breaking, last second playoff losses (not dissimilar to McDermott). What would this board have been like going 11 straight years with HOFer Drew Brees as your QB and ZERO Super Bowl appearances? The grass isn't always greener. The injuries have definitely put a damper on things, but I'm still excited for the season. I'm excited to see what the 2024 version of the Bills will look like. Which young guys will step up? How will Brady's offense be different? Will Babich be able to inject some juice into the defense? Which players will come into their own, or surprise us? How the team will bond and grow together. I'm crossing my fingers to see a healthy Von terrorize QBs (I know that's a big if). I'm excited to see Dalton become a stud and to see if Shakir is indeed the real deal. Heck, just getting to watch Josh Allen every week is exciting. Let's not count them out before it even begins. Does it look like a bigger hill to climb this year? Sure, because there are so many question marks right now. But that's kind of what makes it exciting too. Even though we have a lot of continuity, there is also a newness to this squad. It will be fun to see how all of those pieces come together and how the questions get answered. If there are more positive answers than negative, who knows where they could go. But yes, it's still a bit of a wait and see at the moment. But I'm in for the ride.