folz

With the way the 49ers ran all over Cinci last week, with no elite back, I'm comfortable playing this week with Gore and Yeldon. Give the kid a week off to ensure he'll be available for the New England game.

During the Super Bowl years, the 12th Man was a real thing, just like Bills Mafia is now. No, we didn't come up with it first, but it meant something and the fans and team embraced it and made it our own. So, I would hate to see that go. Having said that, I do like the whole Bills Mafia thing now, though my grandfather is probably rolling over in his grave hearing me say that. He hated that the only time Italians were portrayed on TV and in the movies in his day were as mafia members (criminals), which gave a bad name to all of the good, hard working Italian people in our country. But I just take it in the aspect of being a family, protecting your own, defending your turf, etc. And I like that it gives us something to rally around and that it gives the national media and fans of other teams something to latch onto as far as knowing and respecting how die-hard we are as fans (despite the drunken debauchery that it also represents to some). But, I still wouldn't put it on the Wall. I don't want to change the 12th man and it's not really PC. Not that I care about being PC (that whole thing has become so overblown), I just think in this day and age the team kind of has to be PC.

The NFL needs to get rid of Thursday night games. They are almost always duds. Just not enough recovery time for the players.

There was definitely one play for the Bills that I was like, hey the clock should be stopped. It must have been that one. I'll have to go back and check. [edit] I guess that's the rules though as nkreed pointed out.

Yeah, how come the Jet didn't get flagged for taunting Josh? And Feliciano's other penalty looked like a good clean block that helped clear the RB, but I guess he got that one because of the emphasis on getting rid of blindside blocks. As far as I was concerned, it was a good, clean football play (even though the block was against a player cutting across the grain).

I don't really agree with this narrative. Yes, Mosley made some big plays and not having him as a signal caller late in the game definitely hurt the Jets, but the Bills were moving the ball with ease in the first half as well, they were just turning the ball over. It's not like the Jets D was stifling when Mosley was in and then fell apart, it was just the Bills made a lot of mistakes in the first half, but not the second. In the first half, we had two 9-play drives, a 7-play drive, a 5-play drive. They only had one 3-and-out and only two punts. The rest of the drives ended with turnovers.

Back to football... I don't want to beat the Pats or win the division after Brady and Belichick retire. Where people can say well they win by default. I want to beat them now. We finally have things heading in the right direction. Our defense is going to be for real. Lock Tre on AB and Taron Johnson on Edelman and let Ed Oliver loose up the middle. The blueprint for beating Brady is pressure him up the middle and push him left, so he can't step up in the pocket. If Oliver can push the middle quickly against the Pats, it may be our time. How much more shocking and delicious will it be to beat the Pats with AB on their team? Let's get it Buffalo! Dethrone the evil empire! Just trying to bring some positivity to the thread. ?

All three of those statements are severely wrong. Ideas like that only help to fuel the discord between different races of people.

I was on the field celebrating after beating the Jets in 1988 to clinch the AFC East (for the first time in so many years) and I was one of the crazy fans who carried part of the goalpost up to Ralph's box after the Dolphins game in 1990. ???Great memories! I also remember the win ending the streak against the Dolphins in 1980, but I wasn't at the game.

Welcome back Spags! I'd say you had a shot this year, but you had to pick over the Dolphins bones for a head coach, so...

It could be that Nseke isn't fully healthy yet. But I think the way the O-line stands is actually all about Feliciano. Ford was going to play one of the two spots (RG or RT), so it really came down to is Felciano/Ford a better combo than Ford/Nseke. The staff absolutely loves Feliciano. He plays with a mean streak (as does Ford). And I think they just wanted him on the field, so you put Ford at RT. Having two nasty finishers on the right side appears to be the best option at the moment (barring further evidence). We should be able to run running plays to either side with confidence this year. That is a huge step up from last year.

Oops...meant Duke Williams. Guess I got my fantasy football draft on the brain. Fixed it.

Yarbrough and Jaquan Johnson looked like men among boys out there. Sure it was against 3s and 4s (mostly guys who won't even be on Minnesota's squad), but it just proves they're a cut above most of the other players tonight. It will be tough not finding a spot for them on the roster (especially with Love on IR). But there are no guarantees. Oh how I wish there were a spot for Marcus Murphy, but I'm afraid he will be a victim of numbers. The kid just plays hard every play, no matter what he's asked to do. And he's got some skills. He'll be on someone's squad this year, if not on Buffalo's. Duke WIlliams looked good making contested catches over the middle. Strong, safe hands. I think they have to keep him for that extra dimension of size in the WR corps. RayRay surprised me with both of the plays he made tonight. That first play, what a juke move and speed to beat three defenders to open space and then he lowered his head and bulled through a couple of players for like six more yards. I didn't think he had that in his game. The kid wants to make this team. Who knows? Robert Foster secured his roster spot (as if it wasn't already) with a great special teams play, hitting the returner just as the ball got there. Proved he could play teams and will do whatever is asked of him. I actually though that Lacey played a decent game, but not enough to keep his roster spot from last year. Dodson actually outshined him I thought, but I don't think he makes the cut either. Shout out to Kyle Peko who made a few big plays and got good push up the middle. Came out of the game with a wrist or shoulder banged up, but then got back in the game later. Tyree wasn't great, but he hung in there and brought the team back. Definitely practice squad worthy. Easley looked fast out there, 4 receptions, made the play to set up the final TD. And Sills V snagged the TD (after most of his other targets were bad balls from Tyree). Both practice squad bound if not picked off of waivers. Great comeback! Way to make the most meaningless game on the NFL calendar fun to watch. And as others have said, loved seeing the whole team celebrating with each other. The team chemistry is through the roof.

I like Rocket's thinking. If we could swing a deal without a subtraction from our team in another area, that would be great: Shaq: Texans would need to fill Clowney's DE spot. Shaq is a very solid DE (just not a great pass rusher), former 1st rounder. And for the Bills, we wouldn't need him with Clowney here and most likely they're letting Shaq walk at the end of the year anyhow. So we don't lose anything. Yeldon: They need RB help with Miller going down. Johnson and Yeldon could be a decent backfield. He's on our bubble and even if he makes the team, probably wouldn't play much barring injuries. McKenzie: They want a third receiver. They don't need a stud (they have Hopkins), they do need a slot receiver with KeKe Coutee injured with an ankle. Plus he brings return help on special teams. Again McKenzie is on the bubble for us. So, we're fine without him. I know it's not a popular opinion right now, but I think losing players like McCoy and Zay hurts our team for this year. We'd gain DE help, but lose talent at two other positions. Guys who look to be playing a lot for us this year.

I almost started a thread on this last night because I felt exactly the way the OP does. Honestly, I think they actually stopped watching the game before halftime. They just blathered away about nothing as if they weren't even in the stadium. I usually hate away preseason game broadcasts cause you get the local broadcasters of the other team who don't care about your guys. But, hell, it was a lot better last week listening to the Carolina guys than it was these two national broadcasters last night. Just horrible.

I have watched all three preseason games (not just looked at the stat sheet). I even watched the second preseason game a second time (in condensed format). I'm not saying Zay is a great receiver and doesn't need to get better, but a couple of things. 1. Outside of Beasley, what other wide receiver has lit it up with the 1s? No one, not even John Brown. So, all of the other guys that we give props to (Duke, McKenzie, etc.) got their catches against 2s and 3s also. Why do those count but Zay's don't? 2. Again, I'm not saying Zay is great, but right now, after Brown and Beasley, who is better on the team? You can't say Foster is with the preseason he's had. RayRay? No. Duke? Getting better, but don't think you trust him as your third WR yet. McKenzie? Over his career, he's had a lot of drops and way more fumbles than Zay (but no one seems to hold that against him). And if Beasley is on the field, you're not putting McKenzie on the outside as your #2 consistently. Maybe Roberts, but he hasn't done much in the preseason games and they aren't going to want to expose him too much if he's doing both kickoff and punt return duties. Like it or not, Zay is currently the safest number 3 receiver to go with. And just as you think some of us make excuses for Zay, I think some of the anti-Zay people only point out his mistakes and never give him props when he does make a play. At one point last year, I reviewed all of Zay's "drops" from his rookie year. I'm telling you, if you go back and look at it, yes he had a good number of drops, but it actually wasn't as bad as some make it out to be because Tyrod threw so many bad passes. Balls over his head, just out of bounds, at his feet, etc. Honestly. And last year, a lot of the drops were early in the season. Well we had bad QB play and then a rookie QB who hadn't learned not to throw every ball 100 mph yet. By the end of the year, Josh and Zay had a pretty good connection going. He had 7 TDs and almost 700 yards. That's not bad...but for a number 2 (which he should be---not comparing it to number 1 WR stats) Let's face it, Zay should have never been thrust into a number one WR role, which he was his first two years. Even at his best, because of his tools, he's probably a number 2 WR. Yet he always had to face the best corners of the opponent with no pressure on the opposite side of the field, with spotty QB play (for a season and a half), and no run game (last year), etc. It's tough for a young player to thrive like that. Think about Ju-Ju going to Pittsburgh. He had a HOF QB throwing to him and an All-Pro WR opposite him drawing double teams, and a solid run game keeping the defense honest. I'm not comparing Zay and Ju-JU, just the situations they each came into and how that can effect a young player and their confidence. And what about coaching. Two years, two position coaches, both fired. Sounds like last year's WR room was not good and Zay's rookie year he had his college coach, so how much was he learning new or NFL level. Anyhow, those may sound like excuses to you, but I see it as giving context to Zay's situation and why he may still improve rather than being a definite bust. There is no question that this is a make or break year for Zay, if he doesn't take a big step forward, he won't be around next year. But for this year, I think the team is better off with him and I want to see if he can take that next step forward/gain his confidence back now that he'll have a viable offense around him, and where he's not having to be the number one WR on an overall bad offense. Maybe he will or maybe he won't, I just think that is a decision for later this season (as things shake out) or next offseason, not right now.

I'm not saying Zay has lit it up in the preseason or anything, but it is somewhat disingenuous to say that Zay has done nothing except for dropping that TD (where he was about to be lit up by the way). He has had 5 receptions for 77 yards in the preseason. And 4 of those 5 receptions were for first downs. As comparison, John Brown has had 3 receptions for 45 yards, for instance. Should he be cut for doing nothing in the preseason? I still think Zay is on the team, but I'll admit that him playing that long last night did make me for the first time question his role if not his spot on the team. I had always hoped that Duke would make this team, but was losing that hope earlier in camp. But that TD from Barkley showed why it might be nice to have a big guy on the team (besides our TEs). Robert Foster is the biggest mystery of camp. Thought he was a lock from day one, but now I'm not so sure. What the heck is going on there? Maybe it was one of those 2nd year players who after a bit of success his rookie year, thought he had arrived and so didn't put enough work in in the offseason (kind of like Dawkins last year). We just don't have enough information at this point to know what the coaches are thinking of him. Props to Isiah McKenzie. At the start of camp, I didn't think he'd have much of a chance (despite some nice play last year). But, other than his muff last night, he has played really well, when given the opportunity in the preseason games. RayRay apparently practiced well early on, but I don't think he's shown enough in the games. Maybe another year on the practice squad for McCloud. So, I'm going with Brown, Beasley, Zay, Roberts, McKenzie, and Duke (at this point). With Foster being the wild card. If they keep 7 he's in. If it's a fight for the 6th slot and the coaches are planning to keep Foster, then maybe it is McKenzie who goes, since between Roberts, Beasley, and Brown, you already have most of what McKenzie would offer. He'd be nice to have in case of injury, but he's probably not getting many snaps if everyone is healthy. I guess the question is if Roberts gets hurt, do we have someone to return kicks without either Isiah or RayRay?

The game was completely over officiated. For both teams (not saying the bills got it worse). The Zay holding call was bad. There were a couple of other bad calls in the first half.

I do not understand how this is still a topic being bantered about. Why anybody wouldn't want Shady on this team this year is absolutely beyond me. Zay I can understand, but personally I do want him to have one more season to prove it or not. Both of these guys will be important pieces of the team this year. If you want to talk about trading or releasing or not resigning them next year, sure. But for this year, there is no question that they are more valuable on the team than off. Neither player has any significant trade value at the moment. So why give up good players for, what a conditional 6th or 7th round pick. I do not see how that helps the team. Do some of you guys not want to win this year? Sure, Zay may never become more than an average #2 WR, but after Brown and Beasley, who on the team is better right now? Singletary may or may not be ready to go as a rookie all year, Gore could finally hit the wall. We've had too many seasons where having no depth has killed us. We finally have some real depth at a number of positions and people want to deplete that for a low round draft pick? I just do not understand the logic.

That's the problem with missing time. Other guys step up in your place. They must feel confident now with Kevin Johnson as the third outside corner and it looked like E.J. was headed for the backup slot role and since they signed Captain and have been trying to groom Neal for that role too, they must feel like they are set now without E.J.

Feel bad for E.J. Very good player, just can't stay healthy. Hope things work out for him in the future.

I'm not saying I will draft these guys (although I do already have Josh in my keeper league), but here's what I think: Yes, Beasley should definitely be of value in PPR formats. Josh Allen as a backup QB is good. He was actually very good down the stretch last season as far as fantasy scoring goes. Shady actually may be a value where he's being drafted. Don't want to count on him as your RB1 or RB2, but as a flex option, could prove valuable. John Brown in deeper leagues (I'm in one league with 12 teams and a 26 round draft). Singletary and Foster in keeper or dynasty leagues. Bills DST IDP possibilities: Tremaine Edmunds, Jordan Poyer, Matt Milano

Yes, I think they keep 5 DEs with Love and Johnson getting the nod over Yarbrough. And I agree about Lacey, he was a man on a mission to keep his roster spot last night. He was all over the field, looked good in run support and made some plays in coverage too. He was one of the main guys that flashed for me last night. He was around the ball all night. Last year the Bills kept 7 Linebackers. This year, if they keep the same, I think your top 5 are set with Milano, Lorenzo, Edmunds, Thompson (as the 4th), Stanford (as your main backup middle LB). That leaves Lacey, Joseph, Dodson, and Maurice Alexander fighting for two spots. After last night, I think it is Lacey and Joseph. If they like Dodson enough, maybe he goes to the practice squad and I don't think the other Alexander has shown enough, so he's probably gone. Earlier in camp, some said Lacey's roster spot might be in jeopardy, but he may have secured it last night.

And the ties between these two teams go all the way back to the beginning. In 1995, the first year in the league for the expansion Carolina Panthers, they had: GM Bill Polian TE Pete Metzelaars QB Frank Reich WR Don Beebe LB Carlton Bailey FB Nate Turner And funny enough, on that 1995 Carolina Panthers coaching staff were Joe Pendry, Jim McNally, George Catavalos, and Greg Roman (as defensive quality control coach and asst. strength and conditioning coach)...all guys who would later go on to coach for the Bills.

I just rewatched the condensed version of the game on Game Pass, here are my thoughts: Tremaine Edmunds looked really fast to the ball in run support. For the most part, the first two units of the offensive line looked solid. Gave the QBs time, opened some holes in the run game. I thought Josh looked good for the most part. Had the one bad throw to Zay and the timing with his receivers on the deep ball is obviously not there yet (it will come), but he moved the ball, drew the Colts Offside with his cadence, picked up a first down with his legs. Not bad for a shake the rust off type of game. And its nice to have a backup that can be counted on. It wasn't all good for Barkley, but he played well and I have confidence in him. The D-line looks stout and deep: Star and Shaq both looked really good last night. Shaq is so good in the run game, setting the edge, tackles in the backfield, etc. And Star wasn't just eating up blocks, but making plays (could be the extra attention placed on Oliver by the Colts' offense helped). Trent had a nice QB pressure Oliver didn't play as great as some people intimated, but he held up very well against a really good player in Nelson and against a number of double teams (the future looks bright for him) Jordan Phillips had a really good game---nice push up the middle all night, had a QB hit, and a number of other good plays Hello Daryl Johnson. A whale of a game for the 7th rounder. Got push into the backfield all night, had a sack, a QB hit, and at least 3 more QB pressures Mike Love was very active. Had at least 4 QB hurries or pressures. I think Johnson and Love have solidified their spots at #4 and #5 DE. With Horrible Harry backing up Star...I think that is our top 8 defensive linemen. Yarbrough (love the kid) had a nice sack late in the game, but otherwise I didn't feel like he showed up enough against the Colts' third stringers. Running Back depth looks phenomenal Behind the two future hall of famers, Singletary, Sinorise Perry, Marcus Murphy, and Christian Wade all showed up last night. Singletary was very productive as a runner, but even more so as a receiver. Sinorise is a good special teams guy (which helps his case), but showed he could also help out in the run game. He ran tough and had a nice reception and the TD. I would hate to see Murphy cut. I love the way that kid runs the ball. Man he just runs hard every touch and always gets positive yards. Wade is probably destined for the practice squad because he has a lot to still learn, but boy was he electric on his TD run. He looked incredibly fast, like the film was being run in fast forward. The great Zay debate: I know a lot of people are down on Zay, so seeing him drop that pass near the goal line was enough for them to feel their opinion is justified. But I'll just say this, Zay was targeted 4 times. Only 3 were catchable balls, as Josh threw the one curl in the dirt. So, Zay went 2 for 3 on catchable balls. The other two were both first downs. An 8-yard reception on 3rd and 4 (with a defender hanging on his back) and a 23-yard reception on 2nd and 10. Yes, I would have liked to see him hold on to that ball at the goal line, but it wasn't an easy grab by any means. He was a bout to get lit up by the safety. But either way, it wasn't all bad for Zay. Helped Themselves (guys not already mentioned above): LB Corey Thompson, solid game, always seemed to be in the right position and hitting the holes with some steam P Corey Carter, dropped one inside the 10 and had a 51 yarder with a lot of hang time, so no return WR Isiah McKenzie, looked good in both the passing and return game S Dean Marlowe, with his interception LB Vosean Joseph, flashed a bit at linebacker and had a huge Special Teams hit/tackle CB Lafayette Pitts, made some nice plays CB Denzel Rice, tight coverage, breakup in the endzone, made a 3rd down stop in run support Hurt Themselves Russell Bodine, oof, at least now he might get an injury settlement. He will not make this team. Vlad Ducasse, consistently got beat, it's finally the end of the road for Vlad P Corey Bojorquez, not a good night for the young punter T.J. Yeldon, can't fumble the ball, especially with so many other good backs on the roster David Sills, one drop and an offensive pass interference Tackles McGin and Wesley, looked a little shaky...it's really too bad that Waddle got injured. Tackle depth could be a problem, even though Ford can kick back out as the swing tackle. All in all, lots of positives and lots to work on, but a very good first outing for the Bills.