folz

And that would still be better than Schottenheimer's record. 😆 But, yes, let's re-write history and subtract games from a coaches record to prove a point. I'll give a shot at rewriting history too: If from 2020 on we were still in the old playoff format, the Bills would have had a first-round BYE in each of those 4 seasons. We would have been more rested (like K.C.) and have played one less game before facing K.C. Considering that injuries have been an issue for us in a few of those seasons, playing one fewer playoff games and having an extra week of rest would have helped a lot. And considering three of those games against K.C. were in OT, loss by 3 points, and loss by 3 points---maybe we win one or more of those games (being better rested/healthier) and instead of a .300 playoff record as you surmised, we are talking about a coach who made one or more Super Bowl appearances (possibly a SB win). Plus, saying 7 seeds who wouldn't have even made the playoffs previously makes it sound like those 7 seeds were trash teams or were easier wins, so they almost shouldn't count for McD anyhow. As if maybe we would have had a harder time against 6-seeds than we did 7-seeds, if say we were the 3-seed instead of the 2-seed. But first of all, for that to happen, you would already have to take away a couple of regular-season wins from the Bills in that scenario (to knock us down to a 3-seed), which again would be changing history, but...how much worse were those 7 seeds (compared to say a 6-seed)? Could we have not beat these superior 6-seeds if needed? for the years in question: 2020-2021: We played the 7th-seeded Colts (11-5). The Steelers were the 6-seed (12-4). That's the Pitt team that limped down the stretch, losing 4 of their last 5. And who lost to Buffalo in week 14 of the regular season 26-15. Steelers lost in the first round of the playoffs to the Browns. 2022-2023: We played the 7th-seeded Dolphins (9-8). The Ravens (10-7) were the 6-seed. Again the Ravens were a floundering team, losing 4 of their last 7 down the stretch. They lost to Cincy in the first round of the playoffs and again, the Bills had beat them in the regular season that year. 2023-2024: We played the 7th-seeded Steelers (10-7). The Dolphins (11-6) were the 6-seed. Dolphins lost to K.C. in the first round 26-7. The Bills had beaten the Dolphins twice during that regular season. 2024-2025: We played the 7th seeded Broncos (10-7). The Steelers were the 6-seed, also at 10-7. Steelers lost to Baltimore (who we would go on to beat) in the first round of the playoffs 28-14. We did not play the Steelers during the regular season. But, I think most people would agree that by the end of last year, the Broncos were a much better team than the Steelers were. I would say in at least two, if not three of those seasons, the 7-seed was a better team than the 6-seed. But either way, the Bills would have beaten any of those 6-seeds, no problem.

I see what you are going for, but why would you compare Sean (.500 career playoff win %) with Marty (.278 career playoff win %). Wouldn't coaches like Mike McCarthy, Pete Carroll, Sean Peyton, Mike Ditka, Dan Campbell, Demeco Ryans, Lou Saban, Chuck Pagano, and Lovie Smith be better comparisons since they all also have .500 career playoff records? Heck, Don Shula's playoff record was only.528. And out of those 10 coaches, 7 appeared in a Championship game, and 6 have won it all---with two of them (Ryans and Campbell) only having a combined 6 seasons of coaching thus far. So, tell me again how bringing up Schottenheimer somehow equates to McDermott can never reach or win a Super Bowl? And obviously Marty had a longer career, and Sean has Josh, but here are some of their career percentages in comparison: Reg. Season Win% Playoffs Win% % of yrs in Playoffs % of Winning seasons Top-5 rank points scored% Top-5 rank in Pts allowed% Marty .613 .278 61.9 66.6 28.5 19.0 Sean .656 .500 87.5 87.5 62.5 50.0

You forgot one: Chiefs are dynasty Injuries Bad luck NFL/refs Or you could go with the other side: McD sucks (and I know for a fact that he can never win a SB) Beane sucks Defense sucks No talent on the team besides Josh (i.e., everyone sucks but Josh) Ok, I know I'm exaggerating, but that's what it feels like sometimes from some posters. To me, it's just more fun being a fan in the first category. To each his own, I guess. Just to note, since 2020 (last 5 years): -The Chiefs win percentage vs. the Bills is 54.5% (50% even since 2021, last 4 years). The Chiefs win percentage vs. the rest of the league over that span is 86.8%. -The Bills are 4-5 vs. the Chiefs in that span. The combined point totals of each team in those 9 games is Chiefs 243 points; Bills 242 points. -At the end of regulation in the last three playoff matchups with the Chiefs, K.C. had a combined 6 points more than the Bills (across 3 games). So we are literally talking about one kick, one play, one coin toss, one call, one bounce of the ball going the other way to change the outcomes of any of those games. -The Chiefs appeared in 5 of the last 6 SBs, winning 3 (and don't discount the whole Taylor Swift marketing stuff). -Also, did we not have injuries, bad luck, and bad refereeing at times/certain seasons? It's not like people are making those things up. It's just hard for me to buy the idea that McD has been so severely out-coached (or he's the sole reason for our failures) or that we are so far inferior in talent to the other top teams when the margin is that razor-thin (and with the circumstances noted above added---inuries/bad luck/bad refs). Could we improve, get better, get another elite player or two, of course...but we actually have been good enough coaching- and personnel-wise to make a SB, it just hasn't happened. Not to mention that the Bills have been #1 in points scored, #3 in total yards, #1 in points allowed, #1 in TDs allowed, #1 in defensive takeaways, and #2 in total wins over the last 5 years. You don't do that with poor coaching, bad defense, and no talent, no matter how good your QB is (I know, I know...regular season). Anyhow, as to the OP's post, I think everyone knows not to go to OBL for anything overly-critical or controversial about the team. As an owner, why would you have a show that talks ill of your own product? But, what OBL is good for, imo, is: 1. in-season recapping games and then later in the week prepping for the next game; 2. Right after free agency and the draft, and during training camp (recaps and interviews with new players, etc.); 3. Sometimes they have on good guests and often have player interviews (pre-season, in-season, or say after they signed a contract or whatever). I just pick and choose with OBL. Off-season OBL (not around FA, the draft, or training camp) can be a bit of a slog, so I rarely listen during those periods.

My takeaways (kind of rewatching the offense and looking forward a bit): -We are indeed very lucky to have Josh as our QB. A match made in heaven. Couldn't be more right for Buffalo. The fates/football gods will not allow him to retire without a ring here (keep the faith). Josh is like the ultimate football player. His game is both modern and throwback at the same time. He doesn't just run the ball as a QB (with speed and shiftiness), he is an old-school, cloud-of-dust runner, not afraid to mix it up, run a guy over, leap, or carry a pile. And in arm-strength and ability to extend plays, he's up there with the best to ever do it. His intelligence and instincts are elite. And his accuracy and timing have improved to a very high level. There really are no holes in his game. Just a football player through and through. And he still plays the game like he's in the backyard with his friends, he has fun (which, of course, makes it more fun for us too). -Shakir is a beast. I don't care what his stats are, or how they compare to other WRs, or what "position" he plays, or what his yards/rec numbers are, etc. Dude just catches everything, always gets extra yards, tough to bring down, shifty, is always available for Josh, is versatile (can play multiple positions, screen plays, run the jet sweep, line up in the backfield). Just a stud. Again, total football player. -Not sure how I can be so angry at a player I love so much. Yes, I'm talking to you Jordan Poyer. I think that hit really shook Keon. Made him a bit skittish, etc. That, plus the offense changing a bit while he was out---going more to Hollins, Samuel, Cooper, the backs---stunted the second half of Coleman's rookie year. But, he seemed to be getting right again towards the end-of-the-year, made a couple of big plays down the stretch. I really think Keon is going to attack the off-season and come back to have a really good sophomore season. Remember, in the two games just before the injury, he had just gone for 170 yards and 1 TD (first 100-yard game). -Man, I forgot until I saw it again that in the Jacksonville game, the Bills scored a TD on all five first half possessions. And each TD was scored by a different Bills player. That is still just crazy. -I'm not counting on it, but man do I hope Curtis Samuel stays healthy and has a great year next year (almost more for the player than the team). I think he still has it in him, so I'm not counting him out yet either. 🤞 -Hot "Homer" take: I think we could have one of the better TE rooms in the league next year. I expect Kincaid to have a bounce back year (plus he's going into year three---a year that many receivers take that next step), Knox will be Knox (which is pretty good), and I really think Davidson is going to be a player. A few interesting notes on Davidson. He was a fifth-round pick by the Vikings in 2021 (opted to forego his redshirt senior year due to changes because of COVID). So, he's a guy that got a bit screwed/set back by the COVID years. He didn't start playing Tight End until his 3rd year in college. He was redshirted his true freshman year (as a punter), and in his redshirt freshman year, was also only a punter (earning 2nd-team All-MIAA conference at the position). The next year he served as punter and backup TE. HIs last year in college (his redshirt junior year), he was named first-team All-MIAA conference at both punter and TE. [So, we have a backup punter on the team at least.] After one year in Minnesota, the Bills have now had three years to groom him as a TE in their system (and with Josh). He looked very good in pre-season last year, and they let Quinton Morris walk. -I will definitely miss Mack Hollins a lot. He was so much fun last year. But, we will probably miss him more than the team does (on the field that is). I expect Coleman to step up next year, hoping Samuel will too, the addition of Palmer, Shakir---there just wouldn't be that many snaps/receptions for Hollins to get (and for the price we would have had to pay---double his last year's salary). 55% of Mack's yards and 60% of his TDs came in the 5 games that Keon was out injured. So, almost 60% of his production came in that 29% (5 games ) of the season. Of course, he did have the big game against KC in the playoffs, was a great blocker in the run game, a spark plug, a character, and just fun to watch. So, he'll definitely be missed, but his production is not irreplaceable by other guys. -I do think we have one of the better RB rooms in the league (overall) currently. I really hope the Bills and James can find a number that works for both of them. Despite having some weaknesses in his game (pass blocking/blitz pickup), it's not every player that can consistently take dump-off passes for 20-30 yards or score 16 TDs. Definitely don't want them to overpay for him, but would love to see him stay in a Bills uni for the next handful of years, if possible (alongside Davis and Johnson). What a fun season it was and it's nice to know we have more of the same coming (hopefully ending on top one of these years).

These posts made me think about how coaching staffs in the NFL have changed over the years. It was hard to find complete information for all coaching staffs over the years (apparently it is hard to find who all the assistant coaches were back in the day, even into the 1970s---just didn't get their due I guess), but here is some information I found that gives a good overview of things. Per how things are listed, these are coaching staffs only and do not include Strength & Conditioning, trainers, medical staffs, etc. (which have all seen a sizable increase in staffs over the years too). -In the current NFL, teams average 23.7 coaches per team. The 2025 Buffalo Bills have 24 coaches on their staff currently. -In 1958, the two NFL Championship Game teams, the New York Giants and the Baltimore Colts had coaching staffs of 4 and 3 coaches respectively. So, a head coach and 2-3 assistants. -By the merger in 1960, staffs started to grow a bit. The 1960 Packers had 7 coaches total. -George Allen was the first coach to add a Special Teams Coordinator (hiring Dick Vermeil for the post in 1969). -There were no Offensive and Defensive Coordinators until sometime into the 1970s. It was a gradual process. For instance, the 1975 Steelers had a Defensive Coordinator, but no Offensive Coordinator. I wonder if maybe this started with say an offensive head coach (or vise versa), hiring a coordinator for the opposite side of the ball (once coaches started to specialize on one side of the ball or the other). But, not all teams had both OCs and DCs until the late 70s, early 80s. Using the Bills, here is a look at the size of their coaching staffs (as best as I could gather) over the decades (numbers include the head coach, but again no Training/Strength & Conditioning guys): 1960: 4 1970: 6 1980: 11 1990: 12 2000: 14 2010: 18 2020: 26 So, it looks like there was a big bump up in staff sizes in the 1970s, a small bump in the early 2000s, and the largest jump coming in the last 10-15 years.

Fair enough.

Yes, of course Josh influences everything. He makes everyone around him (other players, coaches, FO) better (or at least seem better). No question. But, as you said, how much so is almost unquantifiable. It's why the debate still goes on about whether the Patriots success was more Brady or Belichick, etc. But, as I have also pointed out in other threads before, just having an elite QB (or even a top 10 All-Time QB) does not automatically equate to playoff berths every year, let alone, say, bi-annual Super Bowl appearances or whatever. Just ask Drew Brees, Dan Marino, Aaron Rodgers, and Peyton Manning. Combined, they played 74 NFL seasons, missing the playoffs in 27 of those years, with 7 Super Bowl appearances, and 4 Super Bowl wins. That means these all-time QBs missed the playoffs for 36% of their careers and did not appear in a Super Bowl for 90.5% of their careers. No matter how good your Quarterback/Coach combo is (and those guys all had excellent coaches), you still need a lot of talent around them to win consistently. Drew Brees and Sean Payton will both be HOFers, yet in 15 seasons together, they missed the playoffs 6 times and only reached the Super Bowl once (and won). As good as Josh is, he is not doing it on his own, as some like to think. As to Free Agency...I agree that Brandon has had a lot of misses over the years, guys that barely ended up even seeing the field sometimes. But, again, we'd have to look at all of his hits and misses (and their contracts, playing time, stats, etc.) and then compare that to other GMs to get an idea of how he's doing overall. I actually have no idea where Brandon would rank if looking only at a GM's free agent success right now. But, I do agree that there is still room for improvement in that department, for sure. But again, sometimes you just get unlucky too (Von's injury). Beane has drafted in the top 10 twice. He picked Josh Allen (at 7) and Ed Oliver (at 9). So, a grand-slam homerun and a solid double or triple. Don't think you can knock those picks too harshly as a pair (though we all wish that Ed had maybe one more level to his game). For reference: according to an article I found, the bust rate for 1st round picks 6-10 is about 35%. And the positive 65% doesn't necessarily mean that they are all All-Pro studs, just that they are at least say solid 5-year starters (per the article's standards). Not sure what the division of studs vs. solid players is in that percentage, but Ed is probably at least somewhere in the middle. So, not a bad pick, just not a home run pick. But how many of that percentage are actually home runs (All-Pros/HOFers) even in that range? I'm guessing here, maybe 10%, 20%? It won't be a high number. So, Ed isn't as bad a pick at 9 as some think, just not the jackpot that you hope for. https://theriotreport.com/more-than-50-of-first-round-picks-are-busts-and-other-terrifying-draft-statistics/

First off, I'm not saying Roseman isn't doing a great job (their World Champs! Again.) and I'm not saying Brandon is better than him. I mean, we could compare them overall as GMs (taking everything into account) if we had the time, but generally winning SBs will give you the nod/edge regardless. I was just pointing out that it's not a fair comparison when it comes to drafting over the last 5 years specifically (as to how many impact players are on the teams through the draft). To say Roseman has drafted better or more impact players when he has had 3 more first round picks than Brandon and three picks in the top 13, when Brandon hasn't had a pick higher than 23, seems obvious. Swap any other two GMs into those positions and the one in Roseman's position will have "drafted better." As to the reason for those higher picks (your question), It's a combination of stuff. In 2020 and 2021, the Eagles season records were 4-11-1 and 9-8. So, in the 2021 and 2022 drafts, they picked 10th and 13th overall (sure there was probably some movement to get to those exact spots, but the reason they were up that high was because of the team's records). Conversely, the Bills records in 2020 and 2021 were 13-3 and 11-6, with the Bills picking 30th and 23rd overall. Just those two picks alone could have made a big difference (especially since one of them was Kaiir, imagine if we had a top 10 pick on the team rather than having had Kaiir?). In the 2023 draft, yes, Roseman made a lot of trades (a big one with NO, and then others) to get up to pick 9 to select Jalen Carter. Not too dissimilar to what Beane did to move up to #7 for Josh in 2018. But for Roseman, it wasn't about getting his QB, it was about going all in. So, we could debate the style of GM'ing. Now I'm sure almost every Bills fan will say I'd take a back-to-back 4-win and then a 9-win season (no playoffs) if it means we win a Super Bowl. Yet, during that two year stretch, most Bills fans would be calling for the HC's and GM's heads. They might not last that extra season to win it all. Look at Siriani, he was on the hot seat in Philly despite making two Super Bowls now. It's kind of that old debate of is it worth it to go all in and then suck for a couple of years, and then try it again? Or instead, try to remain one of the best teams each year and get more shots at it. I'm not a fan of the all in (cause if it doesn't work, you have to rebuild), but it has worked for the Rams and the Eagles at least. So, I don't know. And I guess we'll see if Roseman can keep this current Philly team together (at the top) for a while now or not. Look, the run that Roseman has had the last 8 years is amazing. Three SB appearances and 2 SB wins. That run began 8 years into his tenure as a GM. Brandon has been a GM for 7 years thus far. Roseman has also had 5 losing seasons and 6 years of no playoffs in his 15 years. Also, Philly made the playoffs in that span 3 times with 9 wins and twice with 10 wins. Not sure you're making it that way in the AFC. Again, this is in no way to disparage Roseman, he's got two Super Bowls and will probably be in the HOF because of it, just pointing out that a lot more goes into comparing GMs than just how many pro-bowlers are on the team currently. And ultimately, if we have to use the best 2-3 GMs in the league as a comparison to Beane (to try and show he's maybe not at their level), doesn't that kind of mean he must be pretty near the top of GMs too? Otherwise, why wouldn't people point to worse GMs to say, see Brandon isn't even as good as this guy.

It almost seems like you'd need to do a full team-by-team comparison of players to really determine the Bills' talent-level. As we know, and have seen recently, Pro Bowls, and yes, even MVPs and All-Pro selections, etc. can be about popularity, politics, etc. So, I'm not sure any of those are the best way to evaluate roster talent (more than just a quick picture maybe). Also, there may be a team that say has 8 elite players playing a team with 4/5 elite players and people will say the team with 8 elite players is the more talented team and should win. But, what if from players 9-53, the team with fewer elite players is more solid and/or has fewer holes/weak links elsewhere? What if the "less-talented" team is much deeper and by the end of the season is faring better because they have other guys who can step up without as much drop off? Truly evaluating the overall talent-level of an NFL team is tough and most of the times people disagree on who is or is not elite, or who is or is not the better player than the other anyhow. That's why wins, playoffs, point differentials, offensive and defensive rankings, etc. matter more to me when evaluating a coach or GM than any outside talent-evaluation or number of pro-bowlers on the team or whatever. And we have been at the top of the league in all of those categories for more than 5 years now, despite no Super Bowl appearance (but damn, we've been close). And the same goes for Beane/GMs overall. You can't look at Beane in a vacuum, you have to compare him to the job that other GMs have done/are doing. It's easy just to point out his misses or mistakes and to knock him for it, but really, you have to look at his overall batting average vs. other GMs. And take into account that we are always drafting late in the draft. A while back, I compared the first three rounds of the only three teams to make the playoffs in each of the last 5 years (BUF, KC, Tampa---in regards to drafting players when drafting late in the rounds) to see how Beane matched up in regards to the other GMs who were generally drafting in the same range as Brandon. Apples to Apples. Philly is actually a very poor comparison to use, especially when it come to drafting impact players, because in the last 5 years, the Bills' highest draft pick was #23 (with only 3 first-round selections total), while Philly has had 5 picks better than #23 in that span (6 first-round picks total), with two picks in the top 10 and another at 13. I bet if Beane had 3 more first round picks over the last 5 years (all three in the top 13), the Bills would have 1-3 more impact players on their squad currently. Not to mention, over the last 6-7 years it has been far easier to make a SB from the NFC than it has been from the AFC due to much tougher competition/better teams in the AFC. Anyhow, here is the comparison from the old thread: Buffalo (2021-2024 drafts, rounds 1-3) 12 picks overall (3 firsts, 5 seconds, and 4 thirds). Average draft pick: 59 Players: Greg Rousseau, Boogie Basham, Spencer Brown, Kaiir Elam, James Cook, Terrell Bernard, Dalton Kincaid, O'Cyrus Torrence, Dorian Williams, Keon Coleman, Cole Bishop, DeWayne Carter. Summary: 6-7 starters, 3-4 backups, 2 Busts Tampa (2021-2024 drafts, rounds 1-3) 13 picks overall (3 firsts, 5 seconds, and 5 thirds). Average draft pick: 60 Players: Joe Tryon-Shoyinka, Kyle Trask, Robert Hainsey, Logan Hall, Luke Goedeke, Rachaad White, Calijah Kasey, Cody Mauch, YaYa Diaby, Graham Barton, Chris Braswell, Tykee Smith, Jalen McMillan Summary: 7-8 starters, 4-5 backups, 1 Bust (at this point) Kansas City (2021-2024 drafts, rounds 1-3) 11 picks overall (4 firsts, 6 seconds, and 1 third). Average draft pick: 51 Players: Nick Bolton, Creed Humphrey, Trent McDuffie, George Karlaftis, Skyy Moore, Bryan Cook, Felix Anudike-Uzomah, Rashee Rice, Wanya Morris, Xavier Worthy, Kingsley Suamataia Summary: 7 starters, 3 backups, 1 Bust I'd say overall, all three teams did about the same as far as filling roles on their team. As far as impact players, K.C. probably has the edge. But, they also had one more first round pick and one more second round pick than the Bills or Bucs over that span, and KC's average pick was 8-9 spots ahead of Buffalo and Tampa. And obviously for GMs, you'd still have to compare their free agency acquisitions and contracts/cap management, etc. alongside their drafting. Could we use one or two more elite players? Sure, and maybe Bosa is one IF he can stay healthy. Would it be nice if Beane didn't have any busts and drafted more impact players early? Yes, but show me a GM that that can't be said about. All signs point to Brandon doing a very good job overall, in comparison to the league, especially in the consistency/maintaining success department. And you can say the Bills not making a Super Bowl is lack of talent (Beane) or coaching (McD), but if you think of it in a certain way, we were basically 6 points away from 2-3 Super Bowl appearances over the last 4 years. It's heartbreaking, but true. End of regulation in the last three KC playoff losses, the Chiefs had 6 more total points than us (across three games!). Sure we still would have had to get by Cinn in '21 (maybe not) and Baltimore in '23 (probably)...but that's about as close as you can get to 3 SB appearances in 4 years (without doing it). How much have we really been lacking (talent/coaching-wise) vs. how much did luck, refs, other circumstances play a part? What if the Bills get the OT coin toss in '21? What if the refs didn't work against us this year? What if one or two more starters were on the field any year in the playoffs rather than in the training room? I know some will say those are just excuses, but honestly, 3 of the last 4 years we were good enough (talent-wise and coaching-wise) to have made a Super Bowl, we just didn't.

In the world as it is today, just being a decent guy should be lauded (regardless of your profession). But, to still be a decent, down-to-earth guy when you have that level of fame and money? That is not as easy as it looks (to keep your ego in check) and it is definitely worthy of some praise, imo. Wouldn't trade Josh for anything or anyone. He is the perfect QB for Buffalo. He was built for this team. And I'm glad his new contract puts to bed the assumption by a few posters that Josh is somehow disgruntled behind the scenes with the organization/coaching staff/front office (i.e. doesn't/didn't want to stay in Buffalo).

Once again, Beane is trying to fill as many holes in FA before the draft (so we aren't desperate for anything). With that and our current depth, yeah, it will be tough to make this team. Which is why I think this is a draft that we'll see Beane moving around quite a bit (up, generally)---to maximize talent rather than picks. My guess is we come away with like 6 or 7 guys, not 10. The roster is shaping up. I'd still like to see them draft a big DT, another WR, and another Edge, but right now, CB seems to be the only gaping hole. Will we see a FA (not too many good ones left---Samuel, Hilton)? Or will that be our first round pick?

Approximating according to the draft value chart: Dallas' 5th round pick is about 23 points Buffalo's 6th round pick (if it's our 2nd or 3rd 6th rounder, not our first 6th rounder) is ~ 9 points A 7th round pick (about where Dallas should be picking next year) is ~ 1 point So, Bills value in the trade is about 15 points total, which equates to a 6th round pick (like 14th pick of the 6th round---or like pick 190 overall for Elam). Not bad value for a player that just didn't work out (despite where he was drafted). There may be more to it than this, but he just never seemed to get comfortable in zone coverage (which we have been dominant in for most of his career) and was still a bit too handsy in man-to-man coverage. Hopefully he can turn his career around in Dallas. A change of scenery and a better defensive fit may help. He's seems like a good kid. And despite how poorly things were going for him, he never seemed to make a big stink or cause any issues. Side note: Kaiir's dad played for Dallas for two years (including his rookie season).

https://www.si.com/nfl/bengals/news/buffalo-bills-signing-larry-ogunjobi-to-one-year-contract-with-8-million-guaranteed-01jp5777kkw8 30 years old, has played 8 NFL seasons, originally a 3rd round pick to the Browns Spent 4 seasons in Cleveland, 1 season in Cincy, and the last 3 in Pittsburgh 361 career tackles, 27.5 combined sacks Last year: 41 tackles, 1.5 sacks, 5 TFLs, 10 pressures, 3 hurries, 7 QB hits.

His initial rookie goal was 1,000 yards and 10 TDs. Before the injury he was on pace for 886 yards and 6.4 TDs. However, he started slow in his first three games and then started coming on. In games 4-8, he had 30 for 366 and 2 TDs---73.2 yards per game. If he didn't get injured and kept that pace (73.2 yards/per game) for the rest of the year, he would have had 1,079 yards and 7 TDs. Pretty close to his goal. Yes, he then added ROTY, Super Bowl, 12 TDs, Pro Bowl, etc. You can tell how he says it that he knew those were harder to attain goals (less probable), and yes, even if he didn't get injured, he wasn't going to attain those goals this year (except maybe a Super Bowl if things went better for the Bills). But, why wouldn't you want your players shooting for big goals. It's not arrogance on Keon's part, that is what is called motivation. Personally, I want my guys shooting for the absolute best. Please stop posting this video. Smith's analysis is terrible. I dissected it in another thread a while back. Not sure if the link gets you directly to my post or just the thread. My post is at the top of page 5 in the thread, if anyone wants to read it. And what negatives did Beane and McDermott actually say? "after the injury things were a bit rocky" "I was a bit disappointed how he came back after the injury" "he was lacking a bit of physicality in his game when he came back" and Mcd "wants Keon to show that he has that drive and determination in attacking the offseason." First of all, Beane and McD have done this with young players before---try to motivate them to really attack the offseason. Now, I don't think they are lying about what they said or mischaracterizing it, but I also don't think they have lost confidence in Keon or don't expect him bounce back either. It sounds to me like maybe he was a bit skittish coming back from injury (not unusual for guys to have to get over that mental hurdle of an injury, especially such a big hit). Also, as Keon said, and I have stated in posts before, when you are out for 5 games, the offense needs to adapt and move on without you. So, I'm sure part of the issue was the lack of playing time/targets when he got back. But, he never went Diva about it. He never complained or sulked, he still celebrated with his teammates and picked them up when they got tackled, etc. I think it was the opposite. I think maybe it knocked his confidence a bit and Beane and Mcd just want him to find that fire again. These guys aren't robots---he's a 21-year old kid. You have to learn to work through adversity, just as you have to learn anything else in life. I may be in the minority, but I think Keon will overcome and have a very good season next year.

I actually agree with you NoSaint. We could not have Hollins filling in at WR2/3 again this year. I think the plan last year was Hollins as your #4 or #5, splitting time with MVS depending on circumstances. With Keon, Samuel, and Shakir ahead of them. [Remember, we were also on a serious budget last year.] But, with Samuel's TC injury, MVS not working out, and Keon being a rookie (bringing him along slowly/learning curve), Mack was pressed into playing roles that maybe didn't suit his skillset best. That is why Amari was added. Technically at that point, Mack was the #5, but again, due to injuries (Samuel, Keon, Amari), he was asked to do a lot more. So, I don't think even last year they thought of him as a #2 or #3, it's just sometimes he was forced into playing that role. And why Beane needed to focus on WR depth this year (even if we don't bring in a bonafide #1 WR). I like the Palmer signing, but by no means do I think that Beane is done (need to add at least 1 more WR in FA or the draft---probably the draft). I would have loved Mack to stick around as say a true WR5 again this season, for all of the intangibles that he brings, but yeah, I don't think the Bills were willing to pay double what they did last year for a WR5. It's just not good business when you can probably get a more talented (though less experienced) guy on a rookie deal. Just as an example, a 2nd rounder is about 8-9 million for 4 years (or 2-2.25 million per season for four years, rather than 4.2-5.2 million per for Mack for two years). And obviously, the rookie has room to grow (you're hoping he'll develop into more than a WR4/5). Mack is who he is at this point. But, having said all of that, Mack was a fun guy to have on the team, gave his all for the team, and actually came up pretty clutch at times. He definitely exceeded a lot of posters expectations of him when first signed and was a very important part of last year's success, even if his overall numbers weren't huge---big part of the running game, special teams, offense's attitude, locker room, etc. I was just pointing out with my post that we shouldn't judge new FA acquisitions too harshly because they may turn out much better than we expect (like Mack did). [Though I understand that we have had our share of bad FA acquisitions where posters were correct about their original negative assessments too.] Anyhow, I understand the decision, just sorry to see Mack go.