folz

I'm not sure about that either. I just posted in another thread how Spags consistently brought 6 and 7 men on every third and long. There were many second and longs where he brought 5. I mean, maybe they have some more exotic stunts or something that we didn't see, but it sure doesn't seem like he was holding back at all. They were bringing the house to Josh pretty consistently. Considering that Josh converted more than not on those downs, maybe they'll actually dial down the pressure if they meet again. But then again, it's Spags. With Josh learning to be patient, take what the defense gives, dink and dunk down the field if necessary, he has become a nightmare to defend. He was already very good against the blitz because of his legs and how he can extend plays (as we saw yesterday), but if you run zero or whatever instead, he can now pick you apart underneath (without making too many mistakes). It's pick your poison for defensive coordinators. Maybe that is what finally gets us over the top. There is no longer a defensive scheme that can frustrate/beat Josh. You have to have the players and perfect execution of whatever defense you're running to beat him.

Yeah, I haven't rewatched the whole game, but have seen the highlights a bunch. Spags was bringing pressure all day. It was pretty much rushing 5 on second and longs and then rushing 6 or 7 on third and longs. Pretty consistently all day. A few other plays where there was an all out blitz: 3rd and 8 in the first quarter, the first down pass to Samuel to the 3 yard line, the Chiefs rushed 6. On Samuel's TD in the 4th quarter, the Chiefs rushed 7---with one peeling off with the RB as he swung out. 3rd and 9 on the last drive (the first down to Shakir, where he got hit in the back), the Chiefs brought 7.

I mean, what is the criteria for these awards anymore. Heard one voter/former player say about MVP, that he indeed knocked Josh last year because Lamar had more wins (even though Josh played better, had better stats/season). So, is MVP now just the QB on the team with the best record? What a dumb way to decide the best or most valuable player. And I don't even think it should be a QB only award. And what is the criteria for Coach of the Year?...it would be nice if we knew what they (the voters) think the award actually means. Is it best team turnaround? 2023 record 2024 (currently) Ravens 13-4 7-4 Lions 12-5 9-1 Bills 11-6 9-2 Steelers 10-7 8-2 Broncos 8-9 6-5 Vikings 7-10 8-2 Comms 4-13 7-4 I'd say the Lions, Bills, Steelers, and Broncos will all probably finish around 2 games better than last year. The Ravens will have a worse record than last year. With the Commanders and Vikings probably having the largest jump in number of wins. Is it the coach who reclaimed a QB? Darnold in Minnesota, Wilson in Pittsburgh. Is it the coach who has a rookie QB playing well? Nix in Denver, Daniels in Washington? If McD gets knocked for having a great QB (Josh's play overshadows coaching job), why isn't it the same for Harbaugh with Jackson? Or really Tomlin with Wilson too. Yes, things were not good for Wilson in Denver, but he's still a Super Bowl winning QB. And even Goff has been a pro bowler and been to the Super Bowl. Not saying they are as good as Josh, but McD shouldn't have an automatic elimination because of Josh. Belichick won the award three times with Tom Brady as his QB. Harbaugh won with Lamar Jackson. Sean Payton won with Drew Brees as his QB. Is it which team is outperforming pre-season expectations? Currently I'd say Minnesota leads here, then Washington, then the Steelers and Bills about even. Is it who had a perceived biggest net loss in good players from the previous season. McD may have led here prior to the Cooper addition, but still up there. Is it who overcame the most adversity? Tough to answer this one without looking at every team's season and injuries, etc. But McD would be in this conversation. Do the voters weigh in all such criteria and others? If so, then I'd eliminate Harbaugh. The Ravens will probably have a worse record than last year, may not win the division, despite having the MVP QB and adding Derrick Henry in the backfield next to Lamar. If I add all of this up, then I'd say the frontrunner should be Kevin O'Connell. He ticks the most boxes. Next tier would be Dan Quinn, Sean Mcdermott, and Sean Payton (depending on which criteria you weigh more heavily), then Quinn (see below) and Tomlin (basically just got better QB play). imo. [That is provided that Minn, Wash, and Denver don't fall off as the season goes---I don't expect the other teams to fall off.] As for Detroit, they were ranked #3 at the start of the season (so they were expected to be very good). And as far as their scoring, they have beat up on some bad teams (the Bills have too---some of the same teams funny enough, just not as bad). Detroit's top scoring games [that leads to the large point differential. They only have one other game over 30 points (a 31-29 win vs. Minnesota)]: vs. Seattle 42 points (Seahawks are 5-5) vs. Dallas 47 points (Cowboys are 3-7) vs. Tenn 52 points (Titans are 2-8) vs. Jax 52 points (Jags are 2-9) Bills have 8 games with 30+ points, Detroit has 5 games with 30+ points. They just had higher scores in those particular games. Common opponents (points scored in wins): Detroit Buffalo Seattle 42 31 Tenn 52 34 Jax 52 47 Arz 20 34

We'll cross that bridge when we get there. Stop worrying about yesterday and tomorrow and enjoy today. Great post Shaw. Made me feel like I was there with you.

I still have a hard time understanding this (like from a psychological perspective). Not that Lamar is a media darling (he is a special player, no doubt), but that he is and has been from the end of his rookie year, and yet Josh is just getting there in year 7 (as far as the media goes). We usually say with Josh that all the people who said he'd be a bust just didn't want to be proven wrong. But, Lamar was doubted just as much as Josh leading into that draft. Heck, many people didn't even think he should be a QB, but rather transfer to another position (WR or whatever). And he was picked, what, 19 spots lower than Josh? Most of the people who were doubting Josh were also doubting Lamar. Now, no question, Lamar's running was dynamic to see when he first got to the league. And Josh was raw. But the big knock on Josh was his completion percentage. Yet Lamar had only a 57% completion percentage in college and a 58% completion percentage his rookie year. Josh was basically considered a bust by most media after year two, while Lamar was winning an MVP (deservedly so in that year, imo). Josh started winning some supporters in year three, but Lamar was already crowned. Yet their stats for their 1st three years in the league were: Josh: 11,269 total yards 92 total TDs 31 INTs Lamar: 9,991 total yards 87 total TDs 18 INTs Yes, Josh was throwing 4 more INTs per season, but are those stats so different for one to be an MVP and the other considered a bust? Is it just because in 2018 (the first year starting for Mahomes, Allen, and Jackson) the Bills were in a total rebuild and purging year (going 6-10), while the Chiefs (riding their previous playoff seasons) made the AFC Championship game with a 12-4 record and the Ravens made the playoffs at 10-6 (losing in the Wild Card round)? Was it just first impressions? Josh playing for a bad team (and being a bit more raw) looked worse initially than the other two who walked into already established and stable winning organizations? But, why would anyone still hold on to that after watching Josh have multiple elite seasons (starting in year three)? To be clear, this isn't an anti-Mahomes or anti-Jackson post. They are both great players and deserve the accolades they get. I'm still just trying to figure out why the media has been so anti-Josh for most of his career, especially when he is such a likable and humble dude. Were people just holding on to the pre-draft BS story about teenage Josh posting something racist? Shouldn't the fact that every teammate (except maybe Diggs at the end) has loved playing with Josh have dispelled that? It's just so hard for me to find a logical reason. No other elite QB in the history of the NFL has had to wait so long for his laurels (including guys that never won a Super Bowl). I mean, QBs are often defined by the big moments (playoff games, coming through in the clutch, etc.) So yes, obviously Mahomes has made and won a bunch of SBs...so his legacy is already set. But Lamar hasn't made a Super Bowl appearance either (like Josh). Lamar and Josh both have one AFC Championship appearance. Lamar is 2-4 in the playoffs and hasn't really played well overall in the playoffs, while Josh is 5-5 in the playoffs and has played every bit as good as Mahomes in the postseason, just not getting the same team results obviously. Who cares about the MVP really, but I just don't get the gulf in perception from the media regarding Allen and Jackson over the last 6-7 years...and maybe I never will.

Shakir's current stats are: 56 recs on 66 targets for 599 yards and 2 TDs. 85% catch rate. 460 YAC (almost 77% of his yards are YAC...that's crazy). 26 first downs. He is currently 10th among WRs for receptions and 18th among WRs for receiving yards (despite being 23rd in number of targets for WRs---the top 12 WRs, for instance, all have between 80-108 targets, compared to Khalil's 66). Shakir is currently 3rd in the league in YAC: 1. Chase 481 yards (on 100 targets), 2. Kamara 466 yards (on 73 targets), and 3. Shakir 460 yards (on 66 targets). Khalil's projected season totals after week 11 are: 1,018 yards from scrimmage, 4 TDs, and 40 first downs.

Allen stock up BIG win against the dreaded Chiefs. Josh had 262 passing yards and 55 rushing yards with 2 TDs and 1 INT. Huge game-sealing drive at the end of the 4th with a "He's Him" 26-yard TD run in front of a national audience. Bills lead the AFC East by 5.5 games. Only have two losses. Currently 2nd seed in AFC playoff race. Jackson not helping his case today: Lamar had 207 passing yards and 46 rushing yards today with 1 TD and 1 INT. Had what could have been a game-tying drive at the end of the game, but they missed the two-point conversion. Steelers now have a 1.5 game lead on the Ravens in the AFC North. Ravens now have 4 losses. Currently 5th seed in AFC playoff race. Lamar still leads in the stat column for QB candidates (but then Josh's stats were better than Lamar's last year and Jackson still got the trophy): Jackson: 3,460 total yards, 27 total TDs, 3 INTs (2nd place division, 7-4 record) Daniels: 3,053 total yards, 14 total TDs, 3 INTs (2nd place division, 7-4 record) Allen: 2,859 total yards, 23 total TDs, 5 INTs (1st place division, 9-2 record) Mahomes: 2,571 total yards, 16 TDs, 11 INTs (1st place division, 9-1 record) Goff: 2,531 total yards, 20 TDs, 9 INTs (1st place division, 9-1 record) Other possible candidate's Sundays: Mahomes: 196 yards 3 TDs 2 INTs (in loss to the Bills) (Despite their record, his stats are not MVP worthy currently and the defense has really helped to carry them) Henry: 65 yards and 1 TD (in loss to Steelers) (Will they give it to a non-QB? Probably not) Barkley: 198 total yards and 2 TDs (Saquon actually has 67 more yards from scrimmage than Henry and is only 47 yards behind him for the rushing title---Henry does have 5 more TDs than Barkley though) (Again, unlikely due to not being a QB). Goff: 433 yards and 4 TDs (in win over JAX---I don't know that Goff is really in the conversation, but performances like this certainly helps his case) Daniels: 219 yards, 1 TD and 1 INT (in loss to Eagles---same with Daniels, probably more in line for OROY rather than MVP)

A lot of current NFL fans have no patience. Back in the day, you didn't think twice about a guy taking two or three years to develop (unless he was a high draft pick---1st/2nd rounder). Curtis Samuel nursing a turf toe is another example...so many fans wrote him off already. Terrell Bernard is another example (wasted draft pick, barely played his rookie year). Shakir is another guy. And the list goes on. Some players just need a little time to develop, heal, acclimate to a new team/QB, or whatever their circumstance is. But most fans don't want to wait for it. If it's not there immediately...move on. We are actually very lucky. We have a staff that is very good in the player development area...sometimes you just have to wait for it. And yeah, Cam has been ballin' out!

As the OP said, Josh's game balls are automatic every week because he's HIM, but he certainly earned it again today. This is at least the third or fourth game this year where it's almost hard to give out game balls because it was such a team win with everyone answering the bell when their number was called. So, my list is a bit long today. Rousseau, Oliver, and Epenesa (specifically, but the whole D-line) were outstanding at both getting pressure, but also not letting Mahomes escape the pocket or be able to step up in the pocket. I know they threw in more blitzes today than usual, but when the guys up front are getting it done, this defense really hums. Ryan Van Demark for stepping in at right tackle (and then left tackle for at least one play). Only gave up one bad pressure (no penalties) from what I recall/saw. Khalil Shakir is a beast and comes thru when you need him. To hold onto that last first down when getting pounded in the back...clutch. Amari Cooper Gutted it out (obviously still injured) and came up with two huge momentum building chunk plays and spectacular/elite catches at that. Curtis Samuel for getting to show people that he wasn't a bad FA acquisition. He was big in the first half. And we needed him with Coleman and Kincaid out and Amari still banged up. Terrell Bernard: 8 tackles, 1 sack, 1 interception, 1 tackle for loss. James Cook. I know he only had 27 yards from scrimmage (rushing yards were a struggle today against a very good run defense), but those two TDs were beautiful. One power and one speed. I could see Brandt nominating Josh and Cook (for his first TD run) for angry runs. But maybe not since Cook got it last week (or the week before) and that would be two Bills...but I think it was worthy. And again, the whole secondary deserves kudos today. Held kelce to 8 yards. Kept Mahomes under 200 yards. And they were all tackling really well today. But yes, special shout out to Cam Lewis. He was all over the field today on both defense and special teams as the gunner. Shout out to Zach Davidson on his first NFL reception. I know it was only for 5 yards, but (remembering training camp), we may actually be 4 deep at TE. (Wish Josh didn't under throw Morris on that one play.) Shout out also to Beane for the DEPTH and toughness our team now has. And coaching was A+ today.

Good post. Yeah, you'd think the Pat Show must be wearing a bit thin on Josh. I'm sure they are still cool with each other and all. But when Mahomes acts like he did at the end of that game last year and the announcers actually praise him for his competitiveness? I mean If Josh had acted the same way after a loss, the media would have been talking about his poor sportsmanship for weeks (if not years). It has to get old. It has to get old losing to the Chiefs in the playoffs (when Josh has played every bit as good as Mahomes in most of the games and been humble in the losses despite how lucky the Chiefs were at times). It has to get old that everyone fawns over or makes excuses for Mahomes even when he's in the wrong or in a slump...and yet Josh has been an elite QB for 5 years now, and is only now getting the praise he deserves (and some still aren't fully on board). Plus the constant criticism he's faced his whole career, while Mahomes has been the golden child from day 1 of starting. Yeah, it's hard for me to believe there isn't a bit of a chip on Josh's shoulder (and McDermott's in regards to Reid). I don't know about Josh, but for me as a Bills fan, Mahomes, Reid, Kelce and the rest of the Chiefs organization lost me way back in the AFC championship game in 2021/2022. I thought how they handled themselves in the last couple of minutes of that game and then with their celebration was pretty classless (so sore winners and sore losers, imo). They weren't just celebrating, happy for themselves, they were rubbing the Bills' noses in it. And I didn't see Josh freak out on the field because the refs allowed the Chiefs DBs to maul our injured receivers that whole game. Let's face it, these two will be compared to each other continuously, just like Brady and Manning in their day. And they are both uber-competitive human beings. In today's climate and with the fraternity of the NFL, they'll say and do the right thing most of the time in the media, but you know there has to be a deep, underground rivalry (not necessarily dislike or disrespect)---I'm sure they'd each rather beat each other than just about any other player/team in the league. You want to prove you're the best vs. the best. And it has to be a bit frustrating when you have been humble in regards to extremely close playoff losses that allowed the other guy to go on to Super Bowls, and then the other guy turns around and acts like a child when losing a regular season game against you. Probably hard not to lose a little respect for that person, imo.

Sorry to bump the old Gameday thread, but didn't think this deserved it's own thread. There is a reactor on Youtube who did two short videos on the back-and-forth between Josh and Dayo in the Colts game. The first video is in regards to Dayo punching Josh in the head and what may have caused it. And the second video shows how Josh responded a little later. No big revelation or anything here, just fun to see a non-Bills fan (he's a Seahawks fan) appreciate Josh---and to really see how frustrating Josh can be to defensive players.

A quick glance at where we are. I too do not put much into the whole MVP thing. Especially after last year. Picking Lamar over Josh was a joke. But this year is a different story, unless you say Jackson/Henry cancel themselves out being on the same team. [If there are two MVPs on one team, then neither is really the most valuable player to their team, because they are of equal value, and obviously help each other out.] Or, as others said, if Baltimore fades a bit and doesn't win the division (ends up a wild card). MVP usually goes to a player on one of the best teams. But, stat-wise at least, Jackson is ahead of Josh this year. Derrick Henry (team record: 7-3, 2nd in AFC North) 1,216 yards from scrimmage with 14 TDs [projected: 2,067 yards from scrimmage and 24 TDs---averaging 122 yards/game at 6.1 yards/clip.] Lamar Jackson (team record: 7-3, 2nd in AFC North) 3,207 yards from scrimmage with 26 TDs and 2 INTs. two game-winning drives. Rating of 123.2. QBR: 76.9. Josh Allen (team record: 8-2, first in AFC East) 2,542 yards from scrimmage with 21 TDs and 4 INTs. two game-winning drives. Rating of 100.2; QBR: 70.3 Patrick Mahomes (team record 9-0, first in AFC West) 2,375 yards from scrimmage with 13 TDs and 9 INTs. four game-winning drives. Rating of 90.3; QBR 67.7 Has a new candidate entered the conversation, though? Heck, I might just give the MVP to Saquon Barkley for that one play against Jacksonville. And his numbers are actually on par with King Henry: Saquon Barkley (team record: 7-2, first in NFC East) 1,149 yards from scrimmage with 8 TDs [projected: 2,170 yards from scrimmage and 15 TDs---averaging 128 yards/game at 5.8 yards/clip.] Of course, per the current odds (odds-makers), there are only QBs in the top 10 (no RBs). So, maybe Henry and Barkley are already out due to position basically. Before last week, the odds were even for Lamar and Josh. But, after Lamar's 14-point (4-TD) comeback last week, he took over first place with the odds-makers (Josh in 2nd, Mahomes in 3rd). So, a big win vs. the Chiefs (if Lamar doesn't also have an outstanding game vs. the Steelers) could definitely help Josh. Two big games this week (Bills/Chiefs; Balt/Pitt). [Josh also does have the idea that the Bills were going to take a step back this year and he had no WRs after Diggs and Davis left going in his favor. Josh had better stats than Lamar last year, so maybe Josh could still win it this year with not as good of stats as Lamar based on perception---and how the next handful of games play out. I mean, Jackson got Henry this year, while Josh was supposedly losing his help/targets. Who knows how these voters think.] And then again, who cares about MVPs at this point. Lamar could win a third MVP and I'd still never trade Josh for him, nor do I think most GMs or coaches would. That pretty much says it all, imo.

I always think this is a poor argument. There are just too many variables for it to be a meaningful determination. For instance, Miami is a way different team with and without Tua. Miami's record is bad because they were without Tua for 4 games (they lost 3 during that stretch to Tenn, Seattle, and Indy). If Tua plays, those are all winnable games and their record could be 5-3 right now instead of 2-6---with 2 of the 3 losses to Buffalo and the other a 1-point loss to the 6-4 Cards). And guess what, both times that Buffalo played Miami Tua was behind center. So, were we playing a 2-6 team or a 4-4/5-3 team? Like I said, too many variables (injuries to their team, injuries to your team, when did you play them---every team has ups and downs in a season, etc.). Right now, you'd look at K.C.'s schedule and think it's much tougher than ours. They've played SF, Ravens, Bengals, Bucs, etc. (But again, the Bucs without Evans and Godwin; SF without CMC, Deebo, Jajuan Jennings, and missing both their kicker Moody and backup kicker Wright...and Mason playing with a shoulder injury). Again, looking at KC. [Using team's current records---which obviously will change over the next two weeks] IF we were to beat K.C (and then they beat Carolina while we are on Bye), when we come back from our bye, it would look like this. Team Record Record of Opponents Opponents Win % Buffalo 9-2 47-56 45.6% Chiefs 10-1 53-54 49.5% When you think 11 games vs. 11 teams who have also played 11 games, we are talking about 121 total games. And then for two teams = 242 games. Does a 4-6 game difference in opponents' record across 242 games really tell us anything even if we don't take into account all of the variables? 6 of 242 is only 2.48% of the games. I could just as easily pick stats to show Buffalo is better than KC: Bills: Total points: 290 Point differential: +97 avg. margin of victory: 15.63 Chiefs: Total points: 219 Point differential: +58 Avg. margin of victory: 6.44 But all stats go out the window when it's head to head because the NFL is a week-to-week league. All you can do is play and beat whoever is on your schedule. And I think we all know what the OP meant with this thread, whether he used the word "rebuild" or "retool." He's pointing out that we are a much better team than a number of posters, fans, and media thought we would be, so he's giving props to the coaches and team. There were definitely people in the off-season calling it a rebuild. There were a lot of people (not just nationally, but on this board) that thought this would be a big step back year for the Bills---possibly missing the playoffs. Why can't people just say, yeah, I'm happy that we are better than I thought we were going to be, let's hope it continues. Rather than, yeah, well let's see what they do in the playoffs first, or our record is easy, or qualify it in some other way. However you add it up, 8-2 is a very good season thus far and I do not see a team the Bills can't beat (there is no juggernaut team this season). So, why shouldn't our aspirations be a Super Bowl? And why shouldn't we give props to Sean and Brandon for keeping us a top-end team through a transition period? It may not be a rebuild, but it was a significant transition. Of the 62 players that played in a game for the Bills in 2023, 25 of them are gone. That's 40.32% of the roster turned over. That's pretty big. To keep the team winning through that is worthy of props, imo.

It's crazy when you really think about it. Only 9 behind Thurman, as a QB, mid-way through his 7th year? I think this is something that a lot of the media and fans outside of Buffalo overlook with Josh. They all know he can run, but they seem to ignore his rushing yards and rushing TDs when adding everything up (as far as ranking QBs or whatever). He's 2nd All-time for QBs in rushing TDs, 18 behind Newton. [He has 26 more rushing TDs than Lamar Jackson, btw.] Josh has played 103 games and has 56 rushing TDs. Cam had 52 rushing TDs in his first 103 games. (Josh also has 34 more passing TDs than Cam did after 103 games). Thurm had 54 rushing TDs after 103 games (granted he also had 18 receiving TDs at that point in his career). O.J. had 55 rushing TDs (12 receiving TDs) after 103 games. *Jalen Hurts did just score his 50th rushing TD in just his 71st game. So he and Josh will be vying against each other for Cam's record. Josh had 36 rushing TDs after 71 games (to Hurts' 50), but Josh also had 49 more passing TDs than Hurts after 71 games. So, Hurts may end up with the record in the long run, but the fact that Josh is right there with Newton and Hurts, while at the same time throwing so many more TD passes than either of them, is really impressive.

It was so obvious. Not sure how the refs on the field didn't see it the same way as the fans and now the NFL front office.