DeLuca1967

You don't have to be a veterinarian to recognize dogzhit. You can hold on to Losman as tight as you want to. All you are doing is wasting time. This is another year wasted. Another year without our next "franchise QB". It took Todd Collins 17 games to prove he couldn't hack it. Losman has taken less. But maybe it's a good thing. With the money spent on Dante I doubt the Fins would draft a QB next year with the #1 pick. That means the Bills will have the pick of the QB litter with the #2 overall pick. Losman may start the final 9 games. But at least it will be his final 9 games in a Bills uniform.

You can't take away turnovers. It's like saying "Take away the sacks and Rob Johnson is a solid NFL QB". Turnovers are a big part of Losman's game. Maybe the biggest. You take away turnovers from any QB and they would all be in the Hall of Fame. Considering Levy and Jouron's record with QB's I don't think it's a good thing. When did Levy every have to draft a QB and bring him along? Don't say Kelly. You would be wrong. He was a Bills draft pick before Levy came along. And Ted Marchibroda (sp?) did all the coaching that made Kelly a HOF'er. And Jouron? What QB did he help rise to stardom? The fact that Levy and Jouron are no QB experts makes them being "sold" on Losman another reason to think Losman doesn't have what it takes.

I think the Bills will be good again once they go out and get an actual GM in place. Not a feel good story. Levy has already dropped the ball by not addressing the lines. Triplett was a joke. I said it back when they signed 'Larry Turnstile'. This team has no lines and no QB. I don't see very much to be positive about. Hell, Peerless Price is your #2 receiver. That alone tells you how low the talent level is on this team. Levy, if he is the GM, had plenty of cap room and a very good draft position. There is no reason for the team to be as bad as it is. If it were not for the Dolphins they might have been the worst team in the NFL.

Is there an ad for a starting QB? They are pretty solid at the Database Analsty position. Their weakness is at QB.

Marv may not even have three years of breath let alone being GM of the Bills.

How about after 93 games? 38-55 for a .409 winning percentage.

Please! That was like the Boss's girlfriend wins the grand prize at the company party. Sure! Everyone's name is in the hat. But you knew who was going to win. And let's be truthful here. Being better than Holcomb and Nall is not what you want to base the future of the franchise on. Look at the Losman numbers I posted above. I can only provide the facts. I can't make you believe them. If I could I would be running the Democratic National Party, impeaching Bush and getting our troops home before anymore die.

Wow. What a foreign concept. Basing opinions on actual results and altering that opinion when the results change. How crazy does that sound?

And losing

For every QB that has "turned around" there a dozen that haven't. There are far more QB's Like Todd Collins than there are Drew Brees. Your strongest point proves you are wrong.

What hope are you going to get out of JP Losman? Haven't you already seen him and realized he doesn't have any upside? Fits just as well

Did you get those pills from a doctor or a guy in a van? Losman has yet to show he can compete in games on a regular basis. And you think another 20 starts will turn the Bills into the Pats? News Flash. If you want to compare the Bills to other NFL teams. You might want to start with the Cardinals and Lions. Superbowl contenders? Please. If the Bills don't turn it around soon? The 5-11 Bills of 2005 might be refered to as "The Glory Years".

I never said that. I also think it is time to start thinking about another QB. If you want to bring other QB's into this fray? Let's It took only 17 starts to realize/prove that Todd Collins couldn't cut it as an NFL starter. How many starts does Losman have? 15 I think. Let's compare other numbers. Com% Losman 55.3 Collins 54.7 - Only 3 completions behind. TD's Losman 14 Collins 12 INT's Losman 15 Collins 13 YPA Losman 6.24 Collins 6.20 Comp 20+ Losman 31 Collins 38 Comp 40+ Losman 9 Collins 12 I guesss you would say Collins deserved more time under you guidelines If you want I can pull up the Rob Johnson numbers.

Anything for a lady. You know what's funny. Early in the summer when people were saying Nall has a chance to the QB I was against it. I was all for giving Losman his time. Now I think he has had enough time.

Could it be as simple as there aren't enough good QB's for 32 teams.

"objective facts" ? You should read most of the posts that many who hold your same position write if you want to see a void of "objective facts". So far I have only seen two "objective facts" in favor of JP Losman staying the starter. 1) The Bills do not have a better QB on the roster. Again, to this I will say you won't know for sure until you try. 2) Other QB stats. It's funny how Pro-Losman posters have to look at what other QB's have done and not what Losman has done or is doing. Somehow the fact that Jim Kelly through a bad pass in 1987 makes JP Losman a better QB. I guess they have to since there is nothing in Losman's NFL resume that shows he's an NFL QB. Here are some of what I consider "objective facts" : 11 turnovers in 7 games. Rest of team - 4. Horrible third down conversion percentage. Throwing it two yards on 3 and 10 helps your stats but does nothing to help the team win. 21 sacks in 7 games for -173. These are Rob Johnson like numbers. 6 TD passes in 7 games. 8 drives starts on the opponents side of the 50. 4 drives end in negative yardage. Bills passing attack is 28th in the league. Total offense is 29th. The "Safety". Followed by 0 1st downs in the 4th quarter. The "Sack" at the end of the half. The "Drive" at the end of the Jets game. Running into a ref and fumbling the ball. The INT early in the 3rd quarter against the Bears. I can go on and on.

I don't care what Holcomb and Nall did before. They are on the roster so lets give them a shot. And of course Losamn works hard and wants to get better. So does every other QB in the NFL. Starters, backups and practice squad QB's all work hard and want to get better. And it is so tired to read posts about other QB's. What Manning, Brady or Favre did in their careers has nothing to do with how poorly Losman has played these first seven games. Drew Brees first 30 starts has nothing to do with the 11 turnovers Losman has. That so many of you are trying so hard to deflect from Losmans lack of development and growth this season is telling. It tells me I and others may be right.

By doing quick math I would say 11 TD drives and 8 field goals. Which I think comes out to about 14 points a game on drives over 50+.

"1. Holcomb and Nall show no real signs of being better options for winning with this team " As I have said previously. I don't disagree with this point. I go back to my post that started this thread. Don't you think the Bills coaches owe it to the other 50+ players to at least give either Holcomb or Nall a try? There is no evidence that either would be better. I do know that the QB that's in there now isn't getting the job done. He is responsible for 73% of the teams turnovers. The safety and the sack at the end of the half are two plays you wouldn't expect from a high school QB. I do know that you are right that there will be no changes made at QB. There is no pressure to win on this coach or GM. Marv is there to make Ralph feel good. So there is no angry owner demanding results. 5-11 followed by another losing season. Does Ralph even care at this point? I will continue to disagree with you that the devil you know is better than the devil you don't. The other guys in the locker room deserve a chance to find out.

The Packers are a better footbal team than the Bills at this point. They have something the Bills don't, a QB that gives them a chance to win. The only team the Bills should expect to beat are the Dolphins. What a sight it would be. The Dolphins with the #1 overall pick and the Bills with the #2.

Bills opponents have had 11 drive starts on the Bills side of the field. 11 Drives 6 TDs 1 FG 1 Missed FG The Bills on the other hand have had 8 drive starts on the other side of the 50. 8 Drives 3 FG (2 of the Bills FG drives ended in negative yards) 1 TD - That being the late TD against the Bears. 4 of the 8 drives ended in negative yards. The Bills defense has given the offense some decent field position. Not a ton. But some.

You are so clever. How can anyone compete with wit like that? You offer so much. How are not on TV getting paid for such insite?

I guess the difference between you and I is that you are willing to sit through nine more games of this. I'm ready to move on. I've seen enough. I don't think Losman will magically learn how to play QB in the NFL in nine weeks.

Of the 15 Bills turnovers? How many are Losman's?

You switch to see if you can get something started. If Losman was getting better and "developing" then I would say yeah stay the course. I'm not seeing any of the "developing". He making the same bad mistakes over and over. If he was learning from his mistakes and they were less frequent then I would be on your side. I don't need to see Losman win games by himself. I don't have a magic QB rating number or some stats I need to see to jump on his bandwagaon. All I wanted to see is him not making the mistakes this week he made last week. What I am seeing? He is not only making the same mistakes week to week. He is making the same mistakes he made last year. Locking in on receivers. Throwing horrible passes when faced with any pressure. Lack of ball security. The sack at the end of the half. The safety. These are things that should have been fixed before he made it to the NFL. He's been playing ball since he was a kid. These are things you would hate to see in a high school QB let alone an NFL starter.