Dibs

....also.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AxN4gSLc64

I think we have to wait for the contract details before we can compare the two. If Kolb's contract is a solid 2 yr/13m deal then I'll be bashing my head against the wall as it would have been cheaper to keep Fitz(with a small pay cut that he would have accepted). If Kolb's deal is half that.....with incentive bonuses, it will be a shrewd move as it means we basically kept Fitz(in the guise of Kolb) but at a much lesser cap number.

That's not quite the case. He was on the Packers directly after college(1994). He was competing against Favre, Brunell & Detmer....and didn't make the cut. He was then out of football. In 1997 he got a tryout for the Bears but an injury(spider bite of all things) prevented him from attending. He was finally signed by the Rams in 1998(his first NFL contract). He certainly could be called a journeyman.....but his situation was quite unique for a QB. He didn't bounce around the league as a typical journeyman does.....he basically kept being rejected by NFL teams. When he finally got signed, he became MVP in 2 seasons.....and it was only injury that caused him to be moved after that. I personally wouldn't call him a journeyman as once he was given a legitimate opportunity, he showed himself throughout his career to be of elite calibre......but I understand how some would squeeze him into the journeyman category. Me too.

There we go.....more company for Gannon.

For me.....Hank Williams Jr, early Johnny Cash(both mentioned above).....and this legend are my all time favourite oldies. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTUKHMlbYGA

Warner's journeyman appearance was only due to an injury. Warner was a 2 times league MVP. He slumped because he broke a finger on his throwing hand. He started to look good again at the Giants(2 years later).....but since they had just drafted Eli Manning(#1 pick), Warner was given the bench. He then played extremely well at the Cardinals taking their sorry franchise to the SB and nearly won it. He was great for 2 teams.....and is the only QB ever to take 2 different teams to the SB. Warner wasn't a journeyman.

That needs to be tagged NSFMM (Not Safe For Married Men). I nearly cricked my neck looking over my shoulder to see if the wife was watching lol.

No probs.....all good. In terms of basic QB strategy, we are of the same mind. It's great if you can get one of those super prospects on draft day.....but it's not likely to happen unless all of the wheels fall of the bus.....or you get very lucky with a trade. Until it happens(if it ever does), keep drafting QBs that have a lesser chance to become great. Eventually your numbers come up & you are set for the next 15 years.

Correct with Schaub.....he was backing up behind #1 pick QBs. .......but Young might be the exception to prove the rule(as they say). Technically he wasn't a journeyman but he certainly started a full season at TB producing crappy stats before moving teams and becoming a star. I remember hearing that the TB GM(or HC?) didn't want him & that was the main reason for his move......but I'm working from hearsay memory. It would also be fair to look at that era of QB play in that it was rare for a QB to achieve good stats in their first year of starting.....and also that there were great QBs who simply didn't put up good stats due to their team(ala Elway), but everybody knew they were great regardless of stats. I would be interested if anybody here remembers if Steve Young showed signs of greatness while at TB.....or if he appeared to be just another young player with potential. Anybody?

I don't disagree with your premise.....and hopefully it will be shown to be true this season with Pettine getting the best out of the players. .....but to play devil's advocate, I'd say Byrd knew his role and played to potential.

No. Neither was a journeyman. Warner was an instant superstar with the Rams.....and Hasselbeck went straight from being a young backup behind Favre, to being a solid starter at the Seahawks.

I'm sorry....I didn't mean it to sound that way. .....I've reread what I wrote & I can't see where I might have given you that impression. How could you possibly garner that from what I wrote? I know we are being somewhat peppered with ridiculous comments from people about deliberately tanking.....but I would never advocate that as a viable option. What I wrote was....."Years without success while constantly drafting and changing QBs.......until you finally land the right guy.". How do you read that as me implying that we should deliberately tank?

There has never been(in the modern era) a journeyman QB who became really, really good. There has been a few like Rich Gannon &....um....others similar(?)....who had themselves a couple of good seasons.....but never one that was mediocre, moved teams, and then became great.

Perhaps deffer from that thought until we see the final details of the contract. It could be that he is being paid as a backup with incentives for him if he ends up starting. Remember TJax's deal? Initially everyone thought it was a 1 year 4.5m contract. It turned out to be a 1 year 2.25m contract......with the following escalators.... 50% Snaps: $500,000 60% Snaps: $750,000 65% Snaps: $1 million

I fully agree.......though paying a non-legitimate franchise QB as if he was a legitimate franchise QB defeats the purpose IMO. To me it comes down to two totally legitimate but different views.....based upon a final goal. The two views pretty much hinge upon the calibre of the QB. 1. Some believe it is better to aim towards becoming a solid team that will be regularly in the playoffs. (A good but not great QB). This keeps everyone relatively happy due to consistent successes.....but becomes more difficult to find a great QB....or build an awesome team around them(due to cap issues) that they will need to win the SB 2. Some believe it is better to aim towards becoming a team that can have a realistic chance of winning the SB. (A great QB). This means that it could be many years of struggling while trying to find said great QB. Years without success while constantly drafting and changing QBs.......until you finally land the right guy. I personally prefer the 2nd option......but I don't begrudge anybody who puts a higher value in the 1st one. The Bills have obviously continually failed in their attempts for both strategies over the past 20 years.

I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure that Romo had the cowboys over a barrel on this. The 'Boys needed some cap room this season to be able to sign their rookies. The restructure of Romo freed up around 5m(guess from memory) which enables them to do this. Looks to me like Romo would only agree if he was given a substantial increase in pay. The Cowboys are now in the position where if the cap doesn't increase a lot over the next 2 seasons, they are in big trouble.

At this point, it is only this article that has me remaining calm about this. ".......a two-year deal worth a maximum of $13 million" If the deal was a flat 2 year 13m.....I'd be punching the walls. The contract details are bound to become public shortly......and hopefully it will be 3m(ish)/year.....with incentives for number of starts.

Well....according to http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/dallas-cowboys/tony-romo/..... .....his guaranteed money is 40m. 25m signing bonus plus his 2013/14 salaries(15m). (Plus his previous contract signing bonus money). His cap hits for 2013/14 are 11.8m/21.8m His cap hit for 2015 is a staggering 25.3m.....and if they want to cut him after 2014 they have a 19.9m dead cap hit. The Bills have done some very stupid things.....but Romo's contract is moronic IMO.

Actually.....I think we need hands, not arms.

I even linked directly from my quote......which I'll do again here. .....and any QB on that list would not be who one would be looking for as a long term answer at the QB position.

To me this highlights why I think that having a decent QB is worse for your team than having a bad QB. A decent QB like Romo will get your team to the playoffs more times than the average.......but will eat up a large piece of the cap & have very little chance to win the SB. It is also extremely difficult for a team to let them go......and very rare for a team with a decent QB to try to acquire a good QB(via high draft pick) while they are still on the roster. Subsequently, when you have one, you are usually stuck with them for most(all) of their NFL life. A bad QB is usually gone before 3 years have past......giving the team at least a chance to find a good QB every 3 years......and thus a chance to win the SB.

I guess you don't know the meaning of "most likely"......and btw, Kaepernick was picked #36 so I guess he would disagree. Even though Wilson is still unproven after 1 season.....I'm happy for him to sign as "agreed". I'll even let you add Matt Schaub. Also....um....disagree. (from the last 25 drafts) Signed, Brock Osweiler Nick Foles Kirk Cousins Ryan Lindley B.J. Coleman Chandler Harnish Ryan Mallett Ricky Stanzi T.J. Yates Nathan Enderle Tyrod Taylor Greg McElroy Jimmy Clausen Colt McCoy Mike Kafka John Skelton Jonathan Crompton Rusty Smith Dan LeFevour Joe Webb Tony Pike Levi Brown Sean Canfield Zac Robinson Pat White Stephen McGee Rhett Bomar Nate Davis Tom Brandstater Mike Teel Keith Null Curtis Painter Julian Edelman Brian Brohm Chad Henne Kevin O'Connell John David Booty Dennis Dixon Josh Johnson Erik Ainge Colt Brennan Andre' Woodson Matt Flynn Alex Brink John Beck Drew Stanton Trent Edwards Isaiah Stanback Jeff Rowe Troy Smith Jordan Palmer Tyler Thigpen Kellen Clemens Tarvaris Jackson Charlie Whitehurst Brodie Croyle Ingle Martin Omar Jacobs Reggie McNeal Bruce Gradkowski D.J. Shockley Charlie Frye Andrew Walter David Greene Kyle Orton Stefan Lefors Dan Orlovsky Adrian McPherson Derek Anderson James Kilian Matt Cassel Ryan Fitzpatrick Luke McCown Craig Krenzel Andy Hall Josh Harris Jim Sorgi Jeff Smoker John Navarre Cody Pickett Casey Bramlet Matt Mauck B.J. Symons Bradlee Van Pelt Dave Ragone Chris Simms Seneca Wallace Brian St. Pierre Drew Henson Brooks Bollinger Kliff Kingsbury Gibran Hamdan Ken Dorsey Josh McCown David Garrard Rohan Davey Randy Fasani Kurt Kittner Brandon Doman Craig Nall J.T. O'Sullivan Steve Bellisari Seth Burford Jeff Kelly Ronald Curry Wes Pate Quincy Carter Marques Tuiasosopo Chris Weinke Sage Rosenfels Jesse Palmer Mike McMahon A.J. Feeley Josh Booty Josh Heupel Giovanni Carmazzi Chris Redman Tee Martin Marc Bulger Spergon Wynn Todd Husak JaJuan Seider Tim Rattay Jarious Jackson Shaun King Brock Huard Joe Germaine Aaron Brooks Kevin Daft Michael Bishop Chris Greisen Scott Covington Charlie Batch Jonathan Quinn Brian Griese John Dutton Matt Hasselbeck Moses Moreno Jake Plummer Danny Wuerffel Pat Barnes Mike Cherry Chuck Clements Tony Graziani Koy Detmer Wally Richardson Tony Corbin Ronnie McAda Tony Banks Bobby Hoying Jeff Lewis Danny Kanell Spence Fischer Mike Cawley Jon Stark Kyle Wachholtz Todd Collins Kordell Stewart Stoney Case Eric Zeier Rob Johnson Chad May Dave Barr Steve Stenstrom Jay Barker Jerry Colquitt Craig Whelihan John Walsh Perry Klein Doug Nussmeier Jim Miller Gus Frerotte Jay Walker Steve Matthews Glenn Foley Billy Joe Hobert Mark Brunell Gino Torretta Matt Blundin Tony Sacca Craig Erickson Casey Weldon Will Furrer Chris Hakel Jeff Blake Scott Zolak Donald Hollas Bill Muscrave Craig Erickson Paul Justin Tommy Hodson Peter Tom Willis Neil O'Donnell Troy Taylor Cary Conklin Scott Mitchell Craig Kupp John Friesz Mike Buck Billy Joe Tolliver Anthony Dilweg Erik Wilhelm Jeff Graham Jeff Carlson Jeff Francis Rodney Peete Brent Snyder Terrance Jones Chris Chandler Don McPherson Scott Secules Stan Humphries Mike Perez Kerwin Bell

....but a worse option than using a 5th/6th/7th. Any QB who manages to fall to the #41 pick is most likely not worth picking.

I have never wanted one of our players to succeed more than I do Dareus. His story is one that really deserves a happy ending IMO.

.....our 2nd round draft pick?