Dibs

It's a chicken or egg discussion really.

But again I say pertinent to what? You aren't saying that the new FO is going to be terrible......you are simply showing some points which indicate that it might be terrible. The only use for this information at this point is to counteract an irrational optimist......of which I am not.

I tend to think that the next 5 weeks should better determine the direction of thought on this. If over the rest of the season, Woods & Goodwin show themselves to be likely legitimate talents.....then obtaining another WR will effectively be seeing some of that talent spending extra time on the bench. Obtaining a legitimate TE on the other hand will mean that we will have more overall talent on the field at any one time(3 talented WRs & a talented TE). If Woods & Goodwin excel, it would be a waste of resources to add another WR into the mix when we could have greater improvement at other areas on the team.....and in the case of the TE position, potentially fill the role desired of a better WR.

Agreed. Past performance are pertinent....but pertinent to what? As nobody has any real idea of how much influence they had in the previous regime, nor how much differently they will do things now that their potentially theoretical shackles have been(or not been) removed......one cannot objectively judge them until they have had some legitimate past performance, which will likely take at least a few years. Agreed again.....but it is not just the purview of the optimist to come to irrational conclusions and then strongly voice them. From what I have seen it is usually the irrationally critical pessimistic posts that draw out the optimists' apologist reaction. I believe that the type of poster who causes the most trouble is the one who draws a fixed conclusion on a topic where a fixed conclusion is impossible(most topics fit this)....and then dogmatically argues the case. Topics such as: Will EJ be a bust/star? Is the new GM/HC/OC any good? Is SJ a good WR? etc, etc, etc. None of those questions can be objectively definitively answered at this point, and any dogmatic arguments one way or the other on the subjects is bound to draw opposition from either the optimists or pessimists......as well as the objective thinker. I feel I should add one more point on viewing things objectively. You said earlier that you are relatively emotionless in regards to following football. You must acknowledge though that most others are not the same way....or at least have regular difficulty, due to those emotions, to think objectively. It makes sense that "what" and "how" an objective poster reacts to non-objectivity can help nullify or exacerbate argument. When I see an irrationally optimistic post I tend to think "I hope you are right, and I will feel pity for you if you are wrong and your irrational dreams are crushed."....and I leave them with their good, fuzzy, and mostly harmless thoughts. When I see an irrationally pessimistic post I tend to think "Ugg....why are you irrationally schitting on peoples hopes and dreams." ....and I will then often try to succinctly show them where they are being irrational.

So you obviously agree that their abilities in their *new* roles cannot be assessed properly until they have had the chance to fully show just how good/mediocre/bad they are at them. Yes, but they are objective viewpoints which don't and can't form objective conclusions. Another objective viewpoint that doesn't and can't form an objective conclusion is that Marrone brought a failing, flailing and abysmal college football program into that of relative strength, stability and success despite the limited player resources he had to work with. I think you'll find that it's not.

I hate Tom Brady.

That isn't what he was saying at all. He was saying that both pessimists and optimists can be guilty of lacking objectivity......and it is illogical to assume one over the other(in this case pessimists) has more inherent objectivity. Being objective means that you can see something clearly without letting emotions cloud your conclusions. An example would be the Bills this off-season. New President, new GM, new HC, new coaches, new QB. Objectively one would have to say "Let's wait and see how this is going to go before making judgements." The Optimist would say "This is great, we are finally heading in the right direction." The Pessimist would say "These new guys are nothing until they have proven themselves." ...or worse "This is the same schit, different boat."

Perspective? Par for the course? Brady(2nd game) 22-46-228-0-1 (4 sack for 23 yds) QBR 53.5 Freeman 15-31-210-1-1 (3 sacks for 25 yds) QBR 67.9 Brady(1st game) 19-39-185-1-0 (1 sack for 7 yds) QBR 71.0 Manuel(1st game) 19-42-243-1-0 (8 sacks for 85 yds) QBR 71.8 Brees 30-51-382-2-2 (2 sacks for 16 yds) QBR 79.0 Flacco 17-26-273-1-1 (4 sacks for 28 yds) QBR 97.1 Ryan 36-45-319-2-0 (2 sacks for 12 yds) QBR 113.1 Roethlisberger 23-30-264-1-0 (4 sacks for 24 yds) QBR 113.8 Manuel(1st game) 20-28-245-2-0 (1 sack for 0 yds) QBR 121.9 Locker/Fitz 21-32-257-4-0 (2 sacks for 13 yds) QBR 131.9 Dalton 19-30-325-5-1 (1 sack for 2 yds) QBR 141.7 Achieved in his 7th start and without his #1 & #2 WRs. It doesn't prove he is going to be good, bad or mediocre.....but please don't downplay his good performances.

That was pretty much my point though. Even the ones that don't become probowlers put up better stats than Chandler. If you are looking at a likely minimal upgrade.....with potential to obtain a star.....that is a very safe pick to make.

If people took the time to look at the career stats of other WRs in the NFL they would see that virtually every other starting WR in the game could also be painted with the "struggles with the rigors of the NFL" brush.

I've had a quick look at 1st round TE stats & it appears that you are quite correct. Though I don't have the knowledge to incorporate the TE's blocking abilities, there seems to be a very low bust rate. Even Pettigrew has had impressive stats compared to the average TEs. In his 2nd & 3rd year he was 71-722-4 & 83-777-5.....and then injured in his third season. (I don't know who you are referring to with Hendricks though). It seems that like most positions, TEs often need several years to become good/solid/top players......with the difference being that even in the years where they are learning, 1st round TEs seem to have stats that are similar or better to the average TE(all Bills TEs). In my view, if there is a highly rated TE worthy of 1st round selection that is available when the Bills pick, we should select him. For those interested, here is the list of previous 1st round TEs.....with links to each player's stat page. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/draft-finder.cgi?request=1&year_min=1936&year_max=2013&type=&round_min=1&round_max=1&slot_min=1&slot_max=500&league_id=&team_id=&pos=TE&college_id=all&conference=any&show=all

This isn't the first time that I have seen this proposed.......and I just can't understand the logic of it. What are your reasons behind it?

it means that the journalist had a thesaurus. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/arrestment?s=t

I agree......but his stats were obviously the reason he got in. The whole stats thing is why I am doubtful that Reed will ever get in. As time goes on, the memory of just how good he was will progressively fade and the modern era WR stats will dwarf his. I hope I'm wrong though.

Stats. 10 x 1000 yard seasons in a row.......4th most rushing yardage all time. Too much emphasis on stats and not enough on the player's ability(impact).

Yep Pretty much....yep again. Where in Melbourne do you live Shamrock?

We have a winner!

Hahaha That was funny. I was endeavoring to make a subtle comment about hypocrisy. Seems to me that some people who think it totally fine and dandy for the players to thank God on the field when they score a TD or win the game have problems when somebody says(or types) their thanks to God for a similar reasons. (Wasn't meaning that is you......just the word gosh in that context always irks me somewhat).

Who's gosh?

Why? 13 year career 8 1000 yard seasons 94 TDs 6 pro-bowls 2 all-pro 6th all time rushing yards 1993 Rookie of the year 1996 Comeback player of the year 2001 WP Man of the year

I understand the benefits for the team and players.......but I hate having to wait the extra week to see the Bills play.

Home crowd &/or traveling &/or playing in unfamiliar surroundings.

Okay.....my prediction is.... Jets, Dolphins, Steelers, Ravens, Browns & Titans end with 7-9 Bills end with 8-8 and take the 6th playoff spot. Go Bills!

I very much doubt that the Panthers ever held much hope that Clausen would be their "QB of the future". They would have had some hopes as every team would have when drafting a QB that late......but they would also certainly have had the knowledge that his chances of becoming said "QB of the future" were very slim.

I personally think it is a natural part of human nature at work. I believe, on a subconscious level, the refs will favour the better(star) players and the better teams.....and even to a lesser extent the teams generally perceived to be more popular(based upon individual refs preconceived beliefs). I don't believe in any conspiracy........just in the concept of humans being fallible.