Dibs

Thanks for that.

At this point I'll follow Beerball's example from earlier in the thread and bow out.

.....and you have just reminded me of how long it's been since I've listened to my Beatles albums. Too long.

I'm not 100% on the rules......but assuming his last 4 game cheques won't be paid.....that will save the team $182.5K(minus the minimal 53rd man's contract replacement)......which would then be rolled over onto the 2014 cap.

I don't claim it didn't look suspicious. It did look suspicious. But it makes no logical sense to think that Tomlin could think that there was even a remote chance that it could help his team......and that he would know that there was a very high chance that it could hinder his team. With that in mind....again....how can you possibly think that he would intentionally do something that he would obviously know had a great chance to hurt his team(and himself) with little chance of it helping?

Wilson QBR = 82.4

The coach was on the field of play......not just in the white zone. If intentional, his purpose wasn't to simply be in the white zone for a closer look, it was to be on the edge of the playing field so as to effect the play.......which is totally different to the normal situation you are referring to(which is rarely called). How can you possibly think that Tomlin thought....."Hmmm....we get away with standing 3 foot into the white zone all the time.....I think I'll stand 6 foot in, on the actual field and disrupt the play. They're bound not to call that either."

I'm finding it difficult to nail down the details of Spiller's contract. The two main sites I look at have vastly different figures for him(with other sources claiming different figures again).....but it appears that the last year on his contract(2016) is likely voidable. If that is the case & he can hit FA after 2014 then I would think it imperative that we extend him as you have suggested. If anybody has a definitive link to Spiller's contract.....please link. http://www.spotrac.c...s/c.j.-spiller/ http://www.overtheca...n=RB&Team=Bills

So you are saying that he even though he knew that he would draw a penalty for his team(for standing on the field.....and bound to be called as he actually impeded a ref)......and he knew that if he actually impeded a player he would possibly cause a TD to be awarded to the opposition......and that he knew that he would also incur the wrath of the NFL for the action............that he thought it could in some way benefit his team and therefore purposefully made the decision to do it? Really? It's like saying that a robber sees the police next to and inside the store.....sees the security cameras all around the store.....but decides to attempt to rob the store anyway.

I think this is a very good point.......so I looked up a few things which I believe help explain things. Choice was due to be a FA next season. His salary this season was $780K(including $50K signing bonus). In two weeks Choice was going to turn 30 years old(very old for an NFL RB). As you pointed out, the Bills could have easily demoted Choice to 4th string and elevated Mingo to 3rd.......but considering that there was little chance that Choice was going to be on the Bills roster next season(due to the factors listed), it makes some sense to cut him now.....save $182.5K(which will be added to the 2014 cap)......and give Mingo a chance to show what he can do in gameday situations before we head into the next draft.

Yes to both......thus my argument. Tomlin would have known exactly what his actions would result in(regarding the refs and rules)......regardless to the fact that the expected outcome of penalty and possible TD awarded didn't occur. To somehow think that, with this knowledge, he purposefully put himself in that position is totally illogical. Btw......I'm not saying he shouldn't be heavily penalized. He definitely should be heavily penalized.....and the club as well IMO.

Is there any reasonable way that one would have expected there not to be a flag thrown in that situation? Are you suggesting that as part of his plan he bribed the refs beforehand to not throw the flag when he stepped onto the field? I've gone through this before in this thread..... Put yourself in his shoes at the time. What would you honestly expect the results of the play to be? You'd expect to be heavily penalized with a likely TD given if you actually did impede the returner.....and you would be expecting a heavy fine with potential banning and potential draft picks lost.......additionally your legacy(attaches heavily to ego) would be permanently ruined. That is why I asked what his motives were......because if the motive was to try and cheat to help his team, he would have known that there was only a minute chance that this would occur(that the refs would somehow miraculously ignore his actions). See above.

I'm not making excuses at all. I'm trying to point out that there are many valid areas where one can blame the Bills......but to call the Bills horrendous for not drafting Wilson when there was no team in the NFL that gave him more than a miniscule chance of becoming a top QB is illogical and wrong. Just a few areas where you would get no "excuses" from me if you argued them are:- Drafting extremely few solid(let alone good or great) players over a 10+ year period. Not placing enough emphasis on trying to obtain a top QB.....and using questionable methods when they did. Bringing in bad GMs, coaches......which led to the continual changing of schemes....which led to the letting go of some of the few actual good players we had. Having no apparent long term team building/cap plan. etc etc etc. Since his post was directed at me.....and I certainly don't fit into that category(a fan that can't help it)......you can shove your comment up your clacker. .....and who are these Nix loving fans you speak of? I have never seen anybody proclaiming their love of him. The closest is those that believe that his drafting ability might have been considered underrated(as until this season it was considered to be terrible).

Sorry about the terse response before.....I'm running out of time atm. The Bills(like every other team) have their draft board. TJ was obviously fairly high on that board so when the Bills saw an opportunity to get him they traded up(using little draft value) and selected him. This is no different to every team in the NFL. Sometimes the situation is they see little value where they are and trade down....other times they see a "steal" and trade up. The fact that the Bills appear to have overrated TJ is not unusual for any team to do.....particularly at that stage of the draft. To single out the Bills as horrendous for simply doing what every team does is not warranted IMO. I personally believe that teams should trade down far more than they do(but if all did this it wouldn't work obviously).......but I'm not about to blame the Bills for doing what is generally considered to be standard practice. .....and having determined that he wasn't going to be any good......they made the correct decision to not select him at 75. Blame the evaluation if you must.....don't blame the choice to not pick him. ....ande blaming the evaluation opens up a different and far more complex discussion deserved of its own thread.

So we should have drafted Brock Osweiler with the #41 pick as he was rated higher than Wilson. Or perhaps we should have drafted both just to be sure. If you are not willing to put the Bills actions in direct comparison to the general actions of every NFL team in the league then that is fine. You can have your opinion.

3rd rounders are usually whiffed picks......this is a normal situation, not a horrendous mistake. Again, the reaction to this particular pick is only relevant because the next guy astoundingly defied all NFL expectations and became a star.

I think that Hackett's advice to EJ after the Steelers game is indicative of where the QBs are hindering the coaches.... “We had that same talk after the Steelers game. It was like, ‘Look man, throw it. Just throw it as hard as you can and don’t think about anything else and believe in what you see. You got exactly what you wanted. Just go.’” It really doesn't seem to be the coaches not opening it up at all......more the problems of trying to build confidence in their rookie QB. I also have no problem with the run first strategy as it generally is considered a very good method for helping young QBs develop(which is really the main concern we have).

"I'll just take this photo." *click* "Oops....Ahhh....come on window....AAAARRRGGGHHHH!!!!"

I'm confused as to why it is a horrendous mistake to pass on a player in the draft who has been passed on 74 times prior.

Nah....he really wasn't. His longest pass(including run after catch) in his first 9 games was 51 yards. Wilson's longest passes(including run after catch) in each of his first 11 games were: 27, 22, 41, 17, 30, 51, 36, 19, 23, 38, 32 EJ's longest passes(including run after catch) in each of his first 8 games were: 19, 45, 33, 42, 24, 23, 43, 33 Conclusion: No conclusion can be garnered at this point in time.

So......what do you think his motive was for doing it? As I've mentioned earlier in the thread......if it was no accident or mistake......what could he possible have been hoping to achieve by doing it? *btw, laughter is a natural human reaction for many after a shock/surprise situation.*

The Chiefs game is still hurting for me

If not for the concept that you are using this assessment to denounce the coaching, I agree with the it 100%. You may be right to blame the coaches.....or you may be wrong. The next couple of seasons will tell the final story. I believe that the limiting factor you listed above of "QB play" has had a much higher effect on the outcomes of the games we have played than it seems that you believe. Solid QB play....even basic solid game manager type QB play would likely have seen us win @Jets, @CLE, CIN, & KC & .....possibly @PIT as well.....with an additional Bills irony being that we very most likely would have won the ATL game regardless if not for the unfortunate confluence of horrid events at the end of that game. I don't know how good/mediocre/bad our coaches are.....but it seems pretty obvious that we would be easily in the playoffs if not for the limiting factor at the QB position we have had this season.

TO-GA! TO-GA! TO-GA!

I think you are referring to something I wrote here.......and I was serious.....but my meaning wasn't in the way that you took it be. I'll preface this by saying that I hold no stock in my opinions in this sort of area....but conversely, I rarely make comment in these areas unless I feel confident that I have seen something. My comment comparing his performance to the Steelers game was nothing to do with his stats or overall achievements in each game. Obviously he played a vastly better game against the Falcons than he did against the Steelers. My correlation was instead one of how I perceived his demeanor on the field. Through most of the Falcons game I felt that he was not totally confident. This then caused him to play a more "game manager" role(which he did fairly well in) rather than a confident "play maker" role which he exhibited more in the Jets game. In my mind.....assuming my amateur and perhaps naive thoughts have some validity.....this is a good sign for the concept that EJ can become an elite QB. If many of the flaws that he has shown are a product of being a nervous rookie, and not endemic to his actual abilities......when he overcomes the nerves and plays the game in a confident and relaxed manner, he might well become the answer at QB that we have been looking for.