Dibs

I don't know. Did you mean 6 first round pick for each of them or for both combined?

I find the timing of this very odd. Surely your thoughts about EJ having no chance to become good would be better placed directly after a game he played in, not one that he didn't.

In the replay, yes. I can easily see how it was missed live though. From most angles it looked to me like the player didn't even grab the ball.

I went with Fred. We had to move the chains & he delivered yet again.

The "WE" is the thing that puts the conversation into perspective. If WE think that a player is of top notch talent, the is no reason to think that the Bills won't try their best to retain the player.......which doesn't necessarily mean that the player will be retained obviously.

The aggressive adjective was used to describe how they found their QB, not the fact that they decided to start Wilson over Flynn.....but in relation to your post. Bold? I can't see it sorry. Likely Flynn looked very mediocre and Wilson looked like....well he likely looked like a budding perennial probowler. Has there been a situation in the modern era where a future star QB was left sitting on the bench when there wasn't an entrenched starter? Obviously with hindsight & not knowing what their training camp looked like, I would say had they not started Wilson they would have been dumb.......boldness doesn't really enter into it.

Being fair, I don't think Levitre, Poz or Whitner were of the same perceived talent level. That being said, if Glenn wants to leave, he will make it happen just like Peters did.

You have misunderstood the discussion. Beerball made comment on how Seattle was aggressive in how they tried to find their Franchise QB. I disagreed with this and we discussed it back and forth over a couple of posts. You then waded in with all sorts of irrelevancies......with an obvious beef that somehow I was being an apologist(which had nothing to do with the discussion). Apart from pointing out the Bills aggressiveness in regards to finding a QB this last off-seasons, I in fact made it quite clear that I believe the Bills have indeed lacked aggressiveness in the past in regards to the important QB position. Perhaps there is a reason why you continually see others who say anything different from yourself as being apologists.

Your response really makes me wonder if you actually read my post....

Not to my knowledge......it is in the CBA without an end date. Page 96 under " (v) Carry over room" link to pdf CBA: http://nfllabor.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/collective-bargaining-agreement-2011-2020.pdf (Sorry, it won't cut and paste) The only part that I am unsure of is whether a team can re-roll already rolled over monies into the next season. Though the language of the CBA seems quite clear that this is not allowed, several examples were pointed out to me by other posters which implied that this had previously occurred. I am waiting for this season to finish so I can look at the new numbers for next season......and obtain the definitive answer.

I don't see how it can make a difference to the individual drafted if there was 1 or 2....or zero players of his position drafted ahead of him. The best in one year might be worse than the 3rd best in the next year. I'd like to add in this thread that it was IMO an excellent assessment from our new coaches & GM in regards to deciding to re-sign McKelvin......and we look to have gotten lucky. Had McKelvin learned in the previous 2 years to "get his head back around for the ball and play for the ball" we undoubtedly would not have been able to re-sign him for the $4.25m(average) that we got him for.

From memory, your sig changes more often than the bed sheets in an upper class brothel.

I was serious actually..... I didn't know if it was that.....or Mo-ee-A-kee.....or Mo-ee-ak-eye.....or Mo-ee-ah-keye.....or....

Can somebody please spell out Moeaki phonetically for me?.....I like to know that I'm yelling(in elation) the guys correct pronunciation.

$3.7m

You are talking about the "Cash to Cap" philosophy which has no relation to the actual cap......which is what was being discussed. The dead Fitz money actually has nothing to do with C2C as there is no cash money associated with the $10m dead cap hit. It is all money that had been paid to Fitz in previous years(in the form of Signing Bonus etc).......so in that regard, again it has no impact on the 2014 season whether it was put in the 2013 or the 2014 year. In regards to the C2C philosophy however.....as far as I'm aware, most teams follow a similar base concept(and that's all it is, a base concept to keep in mind when making transactions).......and according to this link: http://www.overthecap.com/nfl-cash-space.php?Year=2013 (though admittedly I don't fully understand it), the Bills spent 1.115 in cash to cap(12th in the NFL) in 2013.

I didn't say that they couldn't do it, just that it isn't viable to do. IMO a team needs to plan on things going right, not on things going wrong. If we were to draft another top 10 OT......and not only all of our other young players develop into solid/good/great players but we manage to land a Franchise QB we would not be able to justify two massive contracts for two star OTs. The top 10 LTs average salary ranges from #1 $12.86m to #10 $8.1m. The top 10 RTs average salary ranges from #1 $7m to #10 $3.5m. Even without the young players panning out(or finding a top QB), ending up with two guys who are(have the ability to be) top notch LTs is a virtual guarantee of letting one go.......and rightly so IMO. I'd rather spend $10m on a LT and 4-5m(average) on each remaining OLman than spend $10m on both tackles and only have $2.5m for each of the remaining 3.

That is incorrect. The NFL now has rollover rules regarding the cap. The Fitz situation made no difference to the 2014 cap by putting the dead hit in 2014 rather than in 2013. I have written this so many times this year that I feel that I'm crusading...... I'll draw a fictional example.....simplified. Team A has 25M cap room in 2013. They have a scheduled 20M cap room in 2014. They have a dead cap hit from a player of 10M that they can either put in 2013 or 2014. If they put the 10M into 2013.....that will leave 15M in cap room which they can roll over into 2014.....which makes the 2014 cap 35M(20M + 15M). If they put the 10M into 2014.....that will leave 25M in cap room which they can roll over into 2014.....which makes the 2014 cap 35M(20M + 25M - 10M). Not so.....see my explanation above.

I view Eli as being streaky elite. He has periods of play(6+ games) where he plays like a truly great QB. As it turns out, two of those streaks of elite play culminated in SB win.

I think that you(and several posters after your post) are looking at things through brown coloured glasses. The Bills were aggressive this off season in regards to QB. We determined that Fitz wasn't the answer, we aggressively went after Alex Smith, we brought in the best FA QB(of a very poor pool) and we spent a 1st round pick on the best(in the Bills eyes) QB in the draft. The Seahawks were aggressive at not wanting to spend too much in finding their future QB. In effect, they were less aggressive than what the Bills have been in the past where we spent 3 1st rounders(Bledsoe, JP, Johnson) and a 3rd(Edwards)......and most people view our past desires for obtaining a Franchise QB to be quite minimal. The Seahawks essentially went down a similar road to what the Bills have done in the past. Trading for QBs who have no chance to become stars(deluded perhaps as we were with Johnson over one good game)......and spending minimal draft picks on the position. Had the situations been reversed and we lucked out with Edwards, and Wilson bombed out, it wouldn't change the facts that neither team aggressively tried to obtain their all important Franchise QB......though perhaps people would be shaking their heads and rolling their eyes at the Seahawks at this point and applauding the Bills. Pure and simple, they got lucky......very lucky.

......in which case we will essentially be drafting very high for a RT.......and if he pans out according to what one hopes for with a high 1st round pick, we will likely have to let one of them walk as paying two premium OTs is not viable.

I wasn't suggesting for any posters to be summarily shut down at all. I was simply asking(pleading actually) for the posters who have made up their minds(and I left that open to include the rare person who believes 100% that EJ is the saviour) to desist from interjecting into discussions about EJ's relative merits and flaws. I also wasn't suggesting that everybody who has made up their minds is guilty of derailing an interesting topic from one of discussing EJ's merits/flaws to one of arguing the merits of premature determination. The vast majority of posters who have finalized their views seem to intrinsically understand that to insert that view into certain discussions is counterproductive to the discussion at hand. You are a good example of this. Though I have seen your thoughts several times recently, like most others, you place those thoughts into an appropriate setting(such as this thread). I haven't seen you(or many others) jump into......say.....a discussion of EJ's mechanics and voice that he will never be any good(thus changing the discussion from one of debate about mechanics to an argument of whether one should have 0% faith in EJ).

I'm gonna put this one down to drinking too much Christmas spirits.

I'd hardly call their efforts to find a future Franchise QB aggressive. They picked up retreads Jackson & Flynn and drafted a 3rd round QB. They ended up getting very lucky with minimal investment.