Dibs

Down by 3 in the first half.......you punt.

Oh no, Pettine knows we are going to run up the middle. Luckily for us Pettine cannot stop the run up the middle. He couldn't do it in Buffalo, and he can't do it in Cleveland. My fear is that we won't take advantage of that poor run defense.

Yes, we could have said the same about the defence a short time ago. Dareus, A.Williams, Bradham & McKelvin were not going to be "good" back then. Like most players they needed a few years(& a few more for McK) to develop into consistently talented players. Mario wasn't going to miraculously recover from his injury......and Hughes, Brown, Lawson & Kiko were not on the team. You seem to be making the error of mistaking potential or future talent with that of actual or present day talent. As I said above......I think we have a tonne of potential talent on the offense, but right now we are not abundantly talented on the offensive side of the ball(injuries also factor into the talent that we can put on the field today).

I see so many people commenting on the supposed great talent we have on offense but I just don't see it. The only real players of note on offence are Glenn, Wood, Jackson, Watkins and Woods. Glenn and Woods are having down years (Glenn missing nearly all of preseason didn't help). Jackson is no longer a feature back, is aging and has been hampered by injury. Woods is developing, but like many players, likely won't come into his own till year 3. And Watkins has been hampered by injury and is a rookie(still learning the game and making rookie mistakes). Really, the only A-grade star player on offense is Glenn. We should likely develop some more over the next couple of years(that are already on the roster) but at the moment we severely lack true star players as well as consistent good players. Compared to our defence where we are loaded with stars and consistent good players at every posistion, our offence is IMO performing at a level which is only slightly below their current talent level. Don't get me wrong here. I see a huge amount of potential talent on the offence(mainly WR & OL) but that potential talent has not yet manifested into true talent......and in combination with injuries, we have at best a mediocre offensive unit at this point in time.

You might want to start questioning the value of your source for that information. 2 ways to look at it.... Browns opponents have won 47.5 games, Bills 60 games. Browns have played 4 easybeat teams(JAX1, OAK1, TB2, TEN2), Bills have played 2 easybeat teams (NYJ2x2). Either way the Browns have had the far easier schedule so far this season.

Here is the list of OLmen that were drafted in the top 10 that contributed to a superbowl appearance for their drafting teams in the last 15 SBs: Ogden BALT (W) Jones SEA (L) Pace STL (W & L) Brown ARI (L) Okung SEA (W) I'm not sure of what value this provides as teams that draft in the top 10 are usually bad teams.....and teams that make the SB are usually good teams.....and teams that go from one to the other usually have found their Franchise QB. For interest sake, here are the WRs (same criterea as above): Crabtree SF (L) Fitzgerald ARI (L) Holt STL (W &L) Hilliard NYG (L) Glenn NE (W)

Assuming Watkins develops into a star WR, I don't see the problem. Who cares if a different team drafts a Don Hutson if you drafted a Jerry Rice? The Bills were sure about Watkins.....and obviously unsure about Beckham(as were most[all] analysts). Time will tell, but if there were two(or more) future HOF WR drafted in 2014, as long as one is Sammy Watkins it was a good move to trade up to get him. It means that the Bills skillfully acquired the guy they were sure of.....and that the other teams were lucky that their future HOF guy fell into their laps.

You forgot Eric Wood.

Regarding the Intentional Grounding call.....interpreting the rule as they did on Thursday would mean that every overthrown ball (missing by 5+ yards) that is thrown just before the QB is hit should be IG. So too should every pass that goes wildly out of bounds, or simply wildly off target. Seems typical that the rediculous version of the rule gets called against the Bills.

What talent? We have some WRs and a LT(and an OC). Where is all of this talent people are talking about?

Why this talk about front loading contracts? It does not save any money in regards to the cap anymore(due to cap rollover rules).

It is threads like this one that give me a glimmer of hope that people will actually learn something from them.

With the modern day rollover cap rules, it would make zero difference if one frontloads a contract or not.

Not attempting to get the first down is not what most people were whinģing about. People were, as usual, crying over run instead of pass (or vice versa). It seems you missed my point.

That's a real pity (though pleased that it was due to good news for you). I totally agree however with all 5 of your points this week.

So many people complaining about the 4 passing attempts. Had we run(and gotten stuffed) on first down it would have been dubbed predictable by the board.....and then what? 3 passes....or another "predictable" run on second.....leading to pass, pass? People really need to learn that a play that doesn't work doesn't necessarily mean it is a bad play......and conversely a play that does work doesn't necessarily mean it is a good play. It just baffles me that for so many fans, the complexities of playcalling boils down to "should have run instead of passing".....or "should have passed instead of running". It's like people think the coaches are playing a simpler two option version of rock/paper/scissors.

So three come from behind wins this year means nothing?

I thought we might lose at the opening coin toss. Obviously you are far more confident than the average fan.

That's about as bottom line as saying we scored less than our opponent.

.....and today shows why Orton is not the QB of the future. Best we have for now.....but we need someone more consistent IMO.

And after Benjamin's latest effort, the 2 rookies are on pace for: KB: 71-1047-9 SW: 76-1180-10

The thing that I am really enjoying about this thread is that for the most part everyone is being very cordial and respectful to each other. I put that down to the concept that whether one agrees with the trade or not, everyone is happy with how SW looks.....very happy in most cases. What a rare treat it is on a Bills forum to discuss the relative merits of our FO decisions when either way we have done well. Sammy Watkins is like a magic bullet for Bills fans .

Very well put. Of all the things I have read, this has eased my mind the most in regards to what appeared and felt like very conservative playcalling on the day. Thank you.

Though some may have flippantly said that(or somewhat disturbingly seriously said it), the concept that draft picks are generally a hit/miss percentage is very valid in the discussion. The reality is that most 1st round picks do not pan out into the players that are hoped for. Are two 1st hit/miss picks worth one....ahem...certain stud(with hit/miss superstar potential)? That is pretty much the arguement.....not that we definately would have missed on the two other picks. I personally don't have a problem with people not changing their minds about the trade after seeing how special SW is. If the situation were reversed and SW was only looking to be decent/good, it wouldn't have effected how I view the trade(and I'm sure most others as well). To me it really isn't about how SW performs or even ends up performing like. It comes down to whether I thought it was worth it to go for a guy whom the Bills FO saw not only as the best player in the draft, but a true superstar potential player. His performance does not effect how my views are about that trade.......and I respect those who had(have) the opinion that the trade was not worth it, and are not influenced by SW's performance to date. In short, one can agree/disagree with the trade regardless of how SW plays and IMO still hold a legitimately strong arguement(as drafting is not a science......not yet at least).

For the last bunch of years it has shown a remarkable correlation to not only playoff teams but SB contenders as well. It is a little flippant to say "it's something we already knew" as there are many axioms in football that "everybody knows" that are not supported by statistical analysis. "Run & stop the run" is one such axiom that can't be backed up statistically in the modern NFL.