Dibs

Huh? I was making reference to the fact that Marv places a very high import on the Kicking Teams. I meant he would have pushed very hard for a reasonable contract to be offered to the young kicker.....who would have then signed.....& then would have won the competition at training camp.....& then would have "nailed 83% of his kicks in his rookie year".

Also, if Marv was the HC at the time he would have made sure none of that ended up happening. Marv would have loved a kicker like Anderson.....luckily the Bucs cut Christie all those years later so Marv could finally have one.

I thought there was very little signing bonus with the PP deal. Sorry Marv....I thought it was your decision to give a signing bonus when a roster bonus would have been far wiser. Does anyone know who's decision the dollars & cents falls to?

Exactly. We have so much room under the cap with nobody left to spend it on. The money goes to Peters right now in either event so why not put it under this years cap?... IMO this is the first true error Marv has made.

The devil himself, let alone his advocate could not argue with that statement.

.....a bad QB is just not good enough period. I agree(again) that if one has a strong team, one only needs a decent QB. At this point we have not produced a decent QB(though one may develop). One thing I didn't look at in my first list was who WINS a superbowl. My list focused on who gets to the Superbowl. 13 of the last 18 superbowls were won with HOFers, future HOFers or MVPs (Rothlisberger may turn into #14, who knows) I don't want us to be just competative. I don't want us to be just superbowl runner-ups. I want the Bills to WIN the superbowl. 13 of the last 18!!!! Having a future HOFer or MVP QB is not essential to winning the big one....just extremely useful.

....and.... a great QB is awesome(12 of the last 17 superbowls were won with HOFers, future HOFers or MVPs...obviously not including Rothlisberger) ....and.... a bad QB is just not good enough period. It is this last bit that I think is really important to team building. There is no point having a strong team if your QB is a dud. I'm really hoping JP/Nall/Holcomb pan out because there would be nothing worse in 3 years time having a superbowl caliber team with a rookie QB. Mind you, we could always grab a McNair type QB if that happens ala the Ravens this off-seasons. Dibs's prediction: The Ravens will have a great year now that they actually have more than a dud at QB.

It's much harder to remember the one year crapola guys than to remember the 5 year good ones. I'm assuming the question is "...worst Bills at each possition of the last 15 years(from players who were starter.) John Fina??? A ten year starter from our SB era??? He was better than....Ostroski, Hicks, Jennings, Gandy & as you mentioned, Williams...plus anyone else I've forgotten. What is it with the lack of Fina lurve?

FB add Larry Centers OT add Fina OG add Parker SS add Schulz DE add Wiley Delete... QB Reich(he played well for the bills but he was a backup) TE Riemersma DE Jeffcoat SS Milloy FS Vincent

I understand what you are saying & I had that in mind when I gave my 'QB' response. I don't think we need a 'great' QB or even a 'very good' QB.....just a 'good' one will do....one that with the right supporting cast can be a probowler. That pretty much means above average. There are a tonne of QBs who simply never get the job done(no matter what the supporting cast). They might last 4, 7, 10 years in the league & year after year do not perform. Aaron Brooks, Tim Couch, Kyle Boller, Jay Fiedler, Joey Harrington, Rob Johnson, etc, etc, etc. If we end up with a QB like one of these & we have a top team, it won't make any difference because they won't take you to a superbowl......hang on a minute.....we did have a top team & one of them.

My list was in response to the question...."What the Bills need the most..." I didn't mean that none of the QBs on our roster could not become a probowl caliber QB....simply that to become a legitimate superbowl contender, we need a QB of probowl caliber. I did not however "cherry pick" anybody. That list is each & every QB to start in the last 17 superbowls. The only reason for the list is to back up my point that... What the Bills need the most....is a probowl level QB. As the list clearly shows....A run-of-the-mill QB just will not get the job done. I'm hoping we don't have to figure out how to aquire the probowl type QB....I'm hoping one of the 3 on the roster is going to develop into that vital player. If not....it's back to the drawing board isn't it?

Even though I can only play on the weekends....or when I've got holidays, my vote for the future is Party Poker. I've got an acount there already .....though no money left in it

36

Yep....we sure do. I totally agree with everyone wanting strong lines. Strong lines make the defence solid & the skills players better. A team without good lines will be hard pressed to make the superbowl....however. When you look at who gets to the Superbowl you find Probowl QBs. Rothlisberger...Future Probowler Hasslebeck......Probowler Brady(x3).......Future HOFer McNabb...........Probowler Delhomme......Probowler Gannon...........MVP Johnson..........Probowler(but average) Warner(x2).....MVP Kerry Collins...Probowler(but average) Dilfer..............Probowler(but average) McNair............MVP Elway(x5).......HOFer Chandler........Probowler(but average) Favre(x2).......Future HOFer, MVP Bledsoe..........Probowler Aikman(x3).....HOFer O'Donnell........Probowler Young.............HOFer, MVP Humphries......NO PROBOWLS Kelly(x4).........HOFer Rypien............Probowler(but average) Hostetler.........Probowler(but average) Montana(x4)....HOFer, MVP That is every Superbowl appearing QB in the last 17 years. As you can see, unless we have a QB that can at least get to a probowl....preferably one that is a legitimate probowler....we will have very little chance of making the Superbowl. A run-of-the-mill QB just will not get the job done.

average-above average??? I think the crux of this thread was a little off target. Initially(& still in some parts of the media) quite a few people were clearly putting Gandy into the 'bad' category(along with Bennie). This rankled many on TBD(myself included) since he is obviously not. To put him as possibly top 10 though is just as far fetched. IMO he would fall into the 'average' category....probably the lower end of it. Even possibly into the 'below average' category. If he was ranked #23, he would need to be better than 9 other LTs. That list is probably the easier & more pertinent one to do if we wish to grade how good he really is. Can anyone list 9 starting LTs that Gandy is (clearly) better than?

Well thought through. I don't fully agree, but at least you used some sort of logic for each win/loss. I'd be happy enough with 7 wins this season.

Your not wrong there. I was astounded that PFWs Preview 2006 magazine rated 28 OTs, another not rated due to injury, 5 past their prime & they didn't include Peters amongst their 6 'top veteran prospects' list. That magazine has gone a lot down hill since Bauchsbaum's death.

I'm no soccer expert so this is an honest question(if worded with a bit of bias ).... The question is:- If player A is on the ground & player B(with the ball) decides to not jump over or avoid player A(who is doing his best to not impede player B) but to instead fall over player A, is it a foul?

Non daylight savings times....I listen to the 1pm Sunday Bills games live at 3am on Monday mornings....daylight savings at 5am. (Sat & Mon are my days off) That means a 9pm start for you is a 11am start for me the following day.

or....Peters, TKO, Whittner, McCargo, Moorman....hell, I'd be upset if we lost Losman, Fowler, Gandy, Reyes, Preston, Villarrial, Everett, Royal, Ko Simpson, Crowell, Fletcher, Kelsay, Lindell, Schneck or even Anderson.

Cool.

I would be interested but I don't think the boss would allow me to play while at work.(timezone differences ) If you organize one on a weekend I'd be a happy chappy.

IMO your view here is more likely than others views of a cheap shot regarding the O-Line. It could also have been edited down for size. Not likely....but possible. Why would they throw a cheap shot at the O-Line & laud Schobel?

Sorry, gotta disagree with you. Emtman was looking awesome as a rookie. His 90 yard INT return for a TD was indicative of what sort of player he would probably have become. A promising NFL career cut short by a devastating injury. Injuries cannot be counted as bust unless the player involved had a checkered injury past in college. Howard at least lasted 10 years in the league & was a Pro-bowl level returner who also scored a Superbowl ring & a Superbowl MVP. Clearly he was a bust but "certainly was a much bigger bust" ???? No way.......at this point. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying MW was the biggest bust of all time. I believe he is just a run-of-the-mill big bust & there are lots of other busts as bad or much worse.....just not the two examples given.