Dibs

An exception to the rule does not a rule make.....& it's reversed anyway. Troy Brown is an exceptionally versatile athlete. I assume you agree with that statement. Think about the word exceptionally. He is an exception to the norm. It's a fairly ridiculous hypothetical. Simply, if all you needed to be a great WR was speed & allusiveness, there would be EVERY decent PR & KR in history making the change(or at least attempting it)....a top WR is perceived as FAR more valuable than a top return man. You insult WRs by implying it is that easy to do their job. Honestly, why is it when you admit that this is simply thrown out there by you & that your first thoughts on it were....& I quote....."I told him I did not know and basically didnt care.".....why do you feel the necessity to argue the point when others point out how ridiculous it is. You act as if you believe it could be a legitimate possibility even though you know it is preposterous(or do you?). Playing devil's advocate only works when there is a reasonable counter argument.....when there isn't it just becomes a waste of time.

I'm a Mr. fan as well. In my lunch break I thought I'd look over the stats & see what I could see. I thought I'd check the play-by-play & count the run/pass plays called.....not counting 3rd & 5+ since they are nearly always pass plays & shouldn't count towards play selection...or penalty plays. It's rough & I'm sure I've made a mistake or three but.... W1 NE loss 23 Run 18 Pass 56% run W2 MIA win 31 run 15 pass 67% run W3 NYJ loss 32 run 27 pass(+11 passes in final 2 catchup drives)(38) 54% run (46%) W4 MIN win 29 run 33 pass 47% run W5 CHI loss 13 run(14) 17 pass(+9 passes & 1 rush in final catchup drive)(26) 43% run (35%) W6 DET loss 15 run(18) 20 pass(+12 passes & 3 rushes in 2 catchup drives)(32) 43% run (36%) Total for 6 games 143 run(147) 130 pass(162) 52% run (48%) I think from this that one can conclude....???? Basically when you fall behind in a game, the number of rushes accumulated are minimized. This combined with many 3rd & long situations puts the ratio looking to be at a lower level than what it 'actually' is. The 60%+ you want is just not statistically realistic....as example... ATL has a 60.4% run/pass ratio & they by far lead the league. SD has a 56% ratio DEN 55% most others are around us or less PIT 50.5% BUF 47.9% I do not know what league average is.....or how much 3rd & long & junk time effect every teams stats but from looking through the stats it looks like we have rushed the ball as often as we have been given realistic opportunities to do so...except for 3rd/4th & short....we pass too much in that situation. Did this help? I don't know....but I certainly enjoyed compiling the stats.

The people who say this have their expectations set waaaaay too high. TT will be in the HOF next induction. He was arguably one of the top 10(top 5?) RBs of all time. Who cares if WM is never as good as TT. He can be a multi-probowl RB & not be as good...hell, he can be a HOF caliber RB and not be as good. It baffles me. Not as good as TT in some peoples minds means not worth having. If JPL becomes good he'll suffer the same thing with comparisons to Kelly.

What is it you mean(above)? I'd totally agree if there were a bunch of people saying that we are great...or all is going perfectly, but there isn't. You seem to be saying that just because we have not done too well for the last 7 years that 'realistically' everything will go wrong in the future & that everything is going wrong now. That is NOT realistic. A realistic view of things is usually a balanced view....in this instance....seeing where we are deficient & seeing where we are improving with reason for hope. Perhaps an idiot is someone who cannot see any merit in opposing views.....or sees that when something is said with a positive(or negative) spin on a specific subject, they are saying "all is great" or "all is crap". If you were expecting no improvement this year(5 & 11), what are you whinging about? This may be what you are 'saying' now but.....it was you who started all this by asking just who is an idiot....obviously implying that anyone with a positive view of things(anything) is said idiot. Since I view that I have many positive outlooks on this team(improvements in JPL & team as a whole, rookies look great, new system + improvements + time = potential good team etc, etc, etc), I take it that you were referring to me.....therefore you were basically calling me an idiot. You, my friend, are the idiot. ricojes said it best with..... "Posting intelligently + backing up your post with facts = a tough post to disagree with!!! " Your response puts things into perspective with...... "I agree wholeheartedly. BTW The facts are this team sucks. "

I've been under this impression myself but......if the 3 of them are good enough, i.e. Schobel is good....Denney is a monster etc, why is it that we do not seem to get any pressure what so ever on opposing QBs through most of the games? Against NYJ, Min, Chi & Det, QB pressure from the DEs was virtually non-existent. I understand some pressure up the middle would be good but....again I think, if these guys are actually good, they should be able to regularly beat their guys 1 on 1 particularly since their opponents have been often rookies/fill-ins/backups/garbage. I'm not saying that they are no good.....I'm asking that if they are good, what is going wrong?

The thing is....if you assume he is running behind a below average OL & he is still getting all the yards he is getting & he is still getting 3.9ypc.....perhaps he is making something happen on his own. What you wrote did not make logical sense....particularly since you were responding to the comment..."A running back is only as good as his offensive line. ". Have we yet seen a play where every other player on the offense perfectly executes their play yet? I think we have & that is why WM gets many rushes for more than your stated 3 yards(hence averaging 3.9ypc)

I tend to think if you were going for comparable draft position you should use players say....within 12(or so) spots. You did this(6 spots) on the positive side but went 42 spots on the negative side. Don't get me wrong here, I do not believe that drafting a QB is easy & I fully know that 1st round QBs are a lucky dip(even in the top 3) but I find your list has a whole lot of names that are not what I would consider to be JPLs drafting peers.....you also missed off Pennington. NEW LIST(Probowlers...and Grossman in BOLD) Jay Cutler(1,11) Aaron Rodgers (1,24) Jason Campbell (1,25) Ben Roethlisberger(1,11) JP Losman (1,22) Kyle Boller (1,19) Rex Grossman (1,22) Patrick Ramsey (1,32) Drew Brees (2,1) Chad Pennington(1,18) Daunte Culpepper(1,11) Cade McNown(1,12) Jim Druckenmiller (1,26) Tommy Maddox (1,25) Dan McGwire (1,16) Todd Marinovich (1,24) As you can see, my new list is smaller & still shows a low percentage of success. It does however show a much higher success than Ozy's list.....also....Drunkonmiller was 1997 whereas McGwire & Marinovich were 1991 & Maddox 1992 which IMO is enough time difference to drop them from the list(different drafting era)......also......players in their 1st or 2nd years should not be counted as busts yet.....I'm gonna drop them too......also.....JPL should not be part of the list since we are comparing the relative success of his peers. NEW (improved) LIST(Probowlers...and Grossman in BOLD) Ben Roethlisberger(1,11) Kyle Boller (1,19) Rex Grossman (1,22) Patrick Ramsey (1,32) Drew Brees (2,1) Chad Pennington(1,18) Daunte Culpepper(1,11) Cade McNown(1,12) Jim Druckenmiller (1,26) WOW....that gives 5 out of 9 success stories from JPLs peers. Looking at these stats, I'd be inclined to see how he further pans out myself.

What about the 49ers?

I find these polls useful. It goes to show that there is a lot of negative posting done by a minority here at TSW.

I find these polls useful. It goes to show that there is a lot of negative posting done by a minority here at TSW.

Did I say you did? It was not me who doesn't get it....I agree with what you wrote "We dont need simplistic excuses for poor play". The original post is a different issue....."We don't need the errors of those around JPL to be counted as his errors when he is assessed."(summarizing) The 2 points are not mutually exclusive to each other. They are both valid & since you never addressed the issue that the post you responded to was addressing, I called you out on your opinion on it. It was you who did not get it. Try responding to the points made rather than assuming everyone else is an idiot. Not everybody here at TSW are single-minded morons.

I'm sure he'd take the wins if they come though. Being competative every game is the goal. If it is achieved, there is not much more needed to win the games(rather than just lose by a small margin).

I think you've gotten close to nailing it there. It is teams that win championships pure & simple. A team (usually) needs to be at least solid in all areas....dominance in one...i.e. Defence....can make up for a weakness...i.e. QB play(Ravens SB team as an example). I disagree, the Patriots showed quite clearly in their first SB year(& probably the following 2) that they were not great in any area....offense, defense, special teams.....the only things they were great at were winning games, playing as a cohesive team that would never give up & kicking game winning field goals.

"Denny Green is losing it, Cant say I blame him" I assume you are talking about a different "it" to the "it" being talked about on the other threads.

I disagree......in a team sport it is harder to tell if someone has 'it' than in individual sports....& also 'it' might take some developmental time.....or 'it' might look like it is their but was partially missing....but 'it'...or 'star quality'.....or 'that something special' is certainly more than simply winning. The greats look great & elevate those around them just by being there.....not by winning their games(which tends to be a team achievement). How many superstar players who obviously have 'it' languished for most or all of their careers on crap(losing) teams? Lots.

The Cardys are my #2 team & have been for 16years or so.....They actually make the frustrations of being a Bills fan seem 'cute'. The Cards have shown themselves to be nearly there nearly every 2-3 years I've been following them.

he added the word.....therefore fixing it in his oppinion.

Typical Cardinals.....no matter how bad we might be, we don't find quite so many ways to lose as those guys.

He re-signed during the week LINK

The guy is in his 6th year... He has also been a dissapointment for them...pick #2 in 2001 draft.

When DJ got coach of the year, his team certainly played with INTENSITY....but there you go. Tell us....which young QBs have IT & which do not? Does Grossman? E. Manning? Roethlisburger? Young? Rivers? Smith? Carr? Huard? Leftwich? Please, fill us all in on which QBs will be great & which will be busts. I'm sure their teams would love to know too.

Well, if ESPN say so......basically I was mainly refering to your opposition here. If we don't think NC is worth the money, why do people think other teams will think he is worth the money. IMO we will not be paying 7mil+ for NC next year....if some team is willing to pay him, he will be gone.

No he didn't.....I think you may have misread what JPL7 wrote because you are attacking him for things he didn't say. He was referring to their irrational comments inside the 'grades' link.....not the grades that they gave in the link. Re-read it & you'll see....

What makes people think that some other team will pay him the money if we don't? IMO there is a decent chance that NC will be back at a much reduced rate next year....after he hits FA & learns that no team will pay him the levels he wants. Unless we trade him now of course.