Dibs

I thought similar until I did some actual research to back up my thoughts. Bledsoe in 2000...45 sacks Brady in 2001...41 sacks...2 less games. NE got... Woody round 1 in 99 Klemm round 2 in 00 Light round 2 in 01 These guys improved the line as time progressed.....and the guys that Bledsoe played with were still better than our line today. There is a HUGE difference between saying "a great QB can make a line look better and a crap QB can make a line look worse"....and what you said "a great QB would make our OL great".

Not arguing here...just adding my 2 cents....IIRC Marino used his(considerable) influence to make sure his OL were very adept at pass protection. It was like everything was geared to support him as a pocket passer.

Sorry for laughing at you but....

That was my impression. I feel it a possibility that him being sooooo conscious of his recent turnover troubles, he hindered his natural game-play & decision making abilities....add to that the insistence by coaching that he stays in the pocket & I can see great hesitation on his part. Keep in mind here I'm not creating excuses.....understanding why somebody stuffs up is not the same as saying "it's OK to stuff up". A concern I have with him is he seems never to change the play-call at the LOS. I guess most of these points all reflect back to a lock of confidence.....having better protection will obviously help in that department but.....we'll see won't we.

You are absolutely correct! Because the Raiders have one of the worst performing lines in history....that means that our line is actually good enough. Good point you make.

To me this is a very BIG point that is causing a lot of unrealistic descention on this board. There seems to me to be many like you with this view & as far as I can see it just isn't the case. There is virtually no one here who comes out & says what you are refering to....except maybe cåblelady...but she just thinks he looks cute....maybe one or two others but they don't blanket post their thoughts. If you look at the 'excuses' posts, you'll generally find they are responding to the 'bench him now' posts. There is no general attitude on this board that JP is tops &/or it is all the OLs fault. Most JP backers expect more errors from him at this point than from an established QB. There is simply the attitude of 'since the OL does suck, it is premature to judge too harshly at this point'.....also the 'JP sux' line of thinking. I have posted a LOT in defence of JP....not because I think he is good....I don't...I think that considering all the factors (OL/experience/new everything/etc, etc) it is premature to call for his head.....particularly since we apparently have no other realistic option...& the fact if we give up 1 month too soon on him, it could mean another 10 years of waiting for the next guy.

Exactly....so why call for his head?(not you specifically...all the others on the board).

8-15-102-1 TD-0 INT....97.1 QBR If JP had garbage stats for the game then your argument might mean something....but since he nearly had a 100QBR & we won the game, your point becomes meaningless. The argument was to say that the drops stopped the offence moving/scoring. Look through the game to see how each drive failed(or not)......and we'll assume AnthonyF is correct in that only 1 sack was JPs fault. Drive 1: 3rd & 1 & RR false starts....3rd & 6...JP completes, 1st down....Drive stops at 3rd & 1 on the 7 because we couldn't rush for a yard.(FG results) Drive 2: A sack caused 3rd & long. Drive 3: Sacked on 3rd & 4. Drive 4: A false start on Reed causes 2&12....on 3rd & 6 JP scrambles for 4. Drive 5: 3rd & 4....pass incomplete(Evans dropped it?) Drive 6: 3rd & 1....again can't rush for 1 yard. Drive 7: Sack, Peters false start....3rd & 25....sack. Drive 8: 3rd & 6....JP overthrows Davis Drive 9: 2nd & 5, Sack brings up 3rd & 12 Drive 10: 2nd & 20, JP completes deep under pressure to Evans for TD Drive 11: Short field, Rushing TD Which stalling drives were JPs fault? I reckon if we say....Drives 8 & 9...and we'll add in another random one as well. This means of the 9 non TD scoring drives....JP caused 3 to falter....the inability to rush for 3rd & 1 caused 2 to stop....3 were because the OL can't pass protect....and 1 was due to dropped balls. Can we blame the QB for the win here? Hang on a minute.

If he was decent against MIN who can't produce any pass rush....perhaps if he had an OL that could provide him with better protection he would look more like the QB aginst MIN & improve from there. "..he brings nothing..."? You can't say his TD to Parrish in the DET game was nothing....nor his 60yard scramble for 3rd & 2. He definitely has potential. If he didn't, there wouldn't be much argument about him. Let's see how the new OL pans out. Can Peters hack it at LT? Can Pennington play RT in this league? These Qs are probably more important at this point than whether I...or you...or anyone....is ready to 'give up' on JP.

Actually I didn't research much.....I remembered the Eagles had done such a draft after losing to the Rams awesome offence in the previous conference final. ....& I totally agree....if the OL is not addressed this off season(draft) after Marv. & Co. have had a full year to assess what they have(which is mainly crapola), their timing of when things need to be done will be shown to be definitely on a different scale to most. If they have managed to get the D good....& the skills positions are decent(please JP...please step up)....a few high draft picks for the OL could see us very nicely positioned in 2008. Go Bills!!!!

I was thinking similar. We look good against the Jets & lose. We look awful against the Packers & win. I guess it comes back to turnovers....our D finally got some &......was it just me or did JP seem to play as if he was determined to keep his turnovers to a minimum? I'm thinking possitive about the Colts. Two words. Chicago....Miami. GO BILLS!!

Oh....OK then. Have you seen how good/bad Nall is in practice? Have you been able to make any sort of assessment on Nall apart from you have lost patients with JP and want an alternative.....the only alternative being Nall(or Holcombe but we won't go there)? Maybe you were impressed with the way GB were so enthused with him they simply let him move on knowing that Favre would have 1(at best) more year.....or that after having him for 3 years they spend a 1st round pick on Rodgers(who apparently is not impressing in GB). Maybe it was his lofty college pedigree that you remember as impressive enough that without seeing how he is now, you are willing to put him out there ahead of JP....hang on, him being a 5th round pick he didn't show too much in college. Maybe it is the fact that JP was picked by Marv & DJ...therefore being 'their guy' & Nall was from the previous regime....therefore Marv & DJ would feel no obligation to him. Oh, silly me....it's the other way around. Maybe you feel the guy who cannot surplant Holcombe as the #2QB is just tricking. Tell me again what it is in Nall that you have actually seen to make you think it would be worth the chance? I'm not saying Nall is not good or has no chance to be better than JP. What I am saying is...... How the hell would any of us have any idea how good/bad Nall is! Calling for him to be put in is mindless emotion based on impatience. We all have been patient for years.....to throw logic out the window based on the concept that "we have waited long enough already" is not going to change the reality of the situation. If the coaches put him in, it will show that they see things in Nall from practice(& that will be fine & dandy). It will also show(everyone) that they believe that (more than likely) JP will not make it. IMO they will not do that unless they truly believe it to be the case....in which case, God help us because we will need (more than likely) at least another 3 years of patients in the future....probably a lot more. BTW....welcome to TSW.

Is Brett Favre most over rated, most over hyped player in the League? What a rediculous question. Absolutely moronic.

Yes he does.....but I think everyone should take a deep breath, take a chill pill & only relate what "is said" to the people who said it....not to ALL the people who support that side of the argument. Example here(this thread) is BuffOrange talking about questioning the coaches & you HudsonValleyBillsFan pointing out "the only reason JP sucks is the OL" where as the coaching & play-calling has been clearly mentioned on this and many other threads. Why can't the coaching/play-calls/OL/and any other excuse you want be factors to bad performance by the QB? The bad performance by the QB is certainly contributing to the crappy performance of the offence so.....why not the other way around. I pray for the glimmer of a chance that JP is young & panicky under the enormous pressure of a rubbish OL(& offence in general) & that with a little help(just a little) he could thrive.....who doesn't hope for that? If that doesn't come about & everyone who wants to cut him now gets there way it will(more than likely) be at least 3 years before we see any daylight & possibly another decade of QB grabbing/developing/dumping/grabbing etc etc. rocketbills made some reasonable points.....perhaps that's why he got attacked.

So did I....but who cares? We're gonna win.

Hey....there's still time

I hear that already.

ah-hem....pardon?

....which will be the perfect opportunity for JP to win some fans with a come from behind drive.

because we'd lose more yardage with the sacks?

Now it's the Ds turn to fall in a heap.

Hopefully this will give the kid some confidence....maybe.

ho..frikin..ray

yep

You mean like every single other first down except for one in the game?