Dibs

I agree. Favre put up over 4000yds, 28TDs & 15ints with a QBR of 95.7 last season......leading the Packers to 13 wins. He may be old but he is still miles ahead of the rest of the Jets QB options.

That we do

So simple......yet seemingly incomprehensible to some

Your biggest assumption is that others are 'hung up' on misconceptions. I've told you before that I believe that building the lines is IMO the most important part(apart from star QB) of having a good team......I object to your over simplification of "the best team's use a higher amounts of their early draft equity on DTs than the Bills and the Lions." It shows itself to be untrue whichever way you look at it. Equity? Last 8 drafts..... The NYG have used a #1 pick(equiv) on QB, #14 at TE, #s 20, 22 & 31 at DB......and a #25 at DT Cowboys have had a #s 5, 8, 11, 18, 20, 22, 25 & 26 and didn't select one DT Pit has used #11, 15 & 16 on QB, LB, DB(& going another 2 years back #s 8 & 13 on WRs)....plus used their 23, 25, 30 & 30 while only using a #19 on DT Indy hasn't selected a DT in the 1st round at all SD has used a #4(equiv), 5, 5, 12, 19, 27, 30 & 30 on non DTs while selecting a DT at #28 How are you figuring that the best teams are using high resources on DTs???? Is there even one 'good team' apart from the Patriots that has used a 'high' draft pick on a DT in the past 8 drafts???? The Rams & Texans have spent much greater draft equity on DTs than any 'good' team apart from the Patriots.

Unweighted??? I was directly responding to your statement below.... Apart from the Patriots your philosophy simply does not hold up. You want to put a higher weight on the higher first rounders? No problem....it still doesn't match. It also assumes that teams can chose when they pick early to correlate with a stud DT prospect. Who are the good teams? Last 8 drafts....DTs in the 1st round Bills 1x1st(26th pick) NYG 1x1st(25th pick) Colts 0x1st Cowboys 0x1st Steelers 1x1st(19th pick) Chargers 1x1st(28th pick) Seahawks 1x1st(23rd pick) A few bad teams... Rams 2x1st(12th & 12th) Jets 1x1st(4th pick) Texans 2x1st(10th & 16th) Mediocre team Eagles 2x1st(14th & 31st) You statement was wrong. The Patriots are your only true example as they have drafted well above the average(the most) and have been extremely successful. One example does not a theory make.

Back to this again......IT IS INCORRECT! Apart from the Patriots who are undoubtedly a good team & have spent well above the average on early DT picks in recent years..... Since 2001....1st/2nd/3rd Bills 1/0/2 NYG 1/0/1 Det 0/2/1 Ind 1/0/1 Dal 0/0/1 Ari 1/1/0 Chi 1/1/0 Pit 1/0/0 Apart from the Patriots there is no correlation between early DT picking and success on the field. This does not mean that having top DTs is not important......

ditto

I remember that song from when I was a kid......surely it's not sung by American kids. Does anyone here even know what a Kookaburra is(without looking it up)?

Speaking in broad emotive opinion without any logical backup is not an intelligent way to progress in a discargument. I gave you the benefit of the doubt in my previous email but it is now obvious that you are not capable of thinking rationally on this topic......you did not address or rebut even one of my points apart from stating 'catch phrases' at me. I'm surprised you didn't resort to "It was Adam & Eve, not Adam and Steve." Where I addressed the concepts of what freedom was......you responded with a bigoted rant. Welcome to ignore.

Do you realize the type of society that you advocate is akin to the Taliban run Afghanistan. There is one basic rule for a free society.....and that is that the individuals of that society can enjoy freedom of any sort as long as they do not either remove the freedoms of other people or pose a reasonable threat to the society. You advocate a society where only certain sanctioned freedoms are allowed.....just as the Taliban did. If it is deemed illegal for an individual to do something which does not remove another's rights & does not pose any threat to society.....who determines what is and is not legal? Let's make homosexual acts illegal.....let's make anal sex illegal between man & woman.....let's make the use of any sex aids illegal.....let's make oral sex illegal.....let's make anything 'unusual' or 'deviant' illegal. Who makes the rules? Some would have us make pre-marital sex illegal....contraception illegal.....anything other than missionary illegal.....divorce. Gay marriage? I've always thought that they should just remove the term 'marriage' from the situation as it has deep emotional/religious connotations to it. I can't see that there is anything wrong with two people of any sort.....whether it be a hetro couple, a gay couple or simply two friends or family members who wish to devote themselves legally to each other and function as a unit rather than two individuals. Pedophilia???? Please try to understand the difference between an act that takes away the rights of another(pedophilia, rape, blowing up towers) and an act that doesn't(gay marriage, deviant solo sex, the wearing of a turban). Why does this man deserve to be made an example of? Assuming he wasn't trying to be seen by anyone, what did he do that was wrong(i.e. taking the rights of another individual)? You talk about "how many rights are you willing to give up?" Please name one right that is given up by society for others to be free?

You're assuming that the original table had given consent......and that he hadn't already done worse(i.e. destroyed previous tables). Your absolutely right though.....had he not been caught then every piece of furniture in a ten block radius might have been in trouble. Is it just me or is the assumption that unusual sexual deviancy will lead to rape a tad hysterical? Obviously this guy liked tables......why does that mean he is going to go out & attack people? Perhaps if he ran into somebody going to a fancy dress party wearing a table costume they might be in trouble.....but.....

It's not just you since many, many fans have major misconceptions of what 'should' be achieved from a player picked high in the draft. The reality is that Whitner has easily justified(at this point) his #8 selection. I'll cut & paste a previous post(May 26th) below to highlight this............

Actually in 2004 we had good DTs. Pat Williams & Sam Adams. We also drafted a DT in the 3rd. At that point in time there were more pressing needs than DT for the team......and if we had actually kept PW after the 2004 season we would have been in a very different situation for 2006/7/8.

It's your frustration level that is out of whack......and as a byproduct you post as if the 2006 draft should have been better instead of could have been better. This ends up putting across the message that the management buggered up the 2006 draft & did a bad job instead of the fact that the 2006 draft has ended up being a good one. I would surmise that if you hadn't predicted the 'better' way......which easily could have been the case.....you would be looking at the 2006 draft without frustration since you would clearly see that not only was it better than most of the preceding drafts but very good compared to the rest of the leagues 2006 drafts. Even your wording.....'failure' to accept Denver's trade-down offer shows you view the 2006 draft as a mistake rather than being good. They chose to go a different way which ended up working out well....it may not have.....just as accepting Denver's offer may not have. They chose not to accept Denver's offer. By using the word 'failure' you are clearly putting across an impression that they should have taken the offer. In hindsight, it seems that perhaps making the trade could have ended up better......but at the time they chose one option out of many, resulting in good things......there was no should about it. Frustration is watching most of our drafts net no decent players as in the previous 9 years.....not seeing a very good draft & expecting it should be better. The 2006 draft realistically should give all fans the feelings of relief not feelings of frustration. We went through 5 years with TD taking the chance to be great......and look where we ended up. In 2006 we NEEDED some players who were going to help the team in the short term & provide some stability for the long term.....we didn't need a boom/bust type that if he busts was going to see us be yet another year behind on finding players. BTW, Jimmy Johnson was pretty much talking out of his rear with that comment. It's easy to say that sort of thing when you have the #1 pick in the draft.....luck on to Emmit the next year.....and have all of those extra picks they netted from the Walker trade over the next couple of drafts. He drafted well.....he didn't really take chances.

My point really is that every single fan has preferences of what should happen on draft day. Some will end up advocating players that would have been better.....some not. There will always be(due to the vast number of fans) some fans who suggested something which once viewed in hindsight might be a better end result than what actually happened on the day. This does not mean that the fans who suggested this have the right to suggest that there were mistakes made.....particularly if the actual end results were positive. To continually imply that the FO buggered things up & it could have been better just because you theoretically happened to predict a 'better way' is only useful if the FO actually did bugger things up. As it turns out, the 2006 draft netted us a(minimally) very good starter(DW), another(hopefully) very good starter(JM), a(assumedly) solid starter(KS), a(hopefully) solid starter(BB) & 2 solid backups(KW & KE). I'd say no matter which way you look at it the 2006 draft was a successful draft. If you need acknowledgement from your peers that it could have been better......you have my acknowledgement(since every draft could be better). If you need a pat on the back for predicting a better draft.....you have a hearty "Well done, good on ya." from me. If you need to claim that management did a bad job because the job they did was not perfect.....you have a "Get some perspective." from me.

Those things could happen......but the likelihood at this point is to say that success depends on TE(if you were to be picking 2 factors). IIRC it was actually TE that made people sit up & take notice of his performances in the pre-season.....not so much JPL.

I don't think that there is any question the the Bills have grossly ignored the OL over the last decade(or so). But, as you pointed out, the new regime has been addressing the situation by determining what should be kept(resulting in probowl LT).....and bringing in 2 good young FAs. Obviously improving the OL was a priority for us since we spent an entire off-seasons FA budget on two starters for it. In regards to depth.....we don't really need depth so much as we need one or two more starters. If Butler does not firm into a good player then we are looking at the OL equivalent to Ellison & Dig at LB last season. If we manage to get legit starters for C & RG then we have the depth players(Fowler & Butler) already on the roster. By saying say that "Most teams that make improving the OL a priority make the playoffs." you are not really saying much since most teams will have a playoff appearance every couple of years anyway. That being said, I agree that smart teams keep the OL a priority.

I disagree.....the Bills have been a bad to mediocre team because they, over a long period of time have not been successful in drafting for the most of it.....have not brought in good young FAs when appropriate.....and have let good players walk when they should have been retained. Had we not waisted draft picks on....Rob Johnson, Erik Flowers, Travares Tillman, Mike Williams, Willis McGahee, Drew Bledsoe, J.P. Losman and drafted good players instead.....and retained Winfield, Williams & Brown.....we would be looking at a whole different team now. It also would have helped to not have TKO injured & paid the money to bring in good young FAs(like we are doing now) rather than players on their last legs or stopgap types. It's too easy to look at just one factor & cast all the blame there.....there are many areas where the Bills have been badly managed over the last 10-14 years.

Players are only partly paid based on production......they are also partly paid based on talent.

Yep.....coming off back-back pro-bowl seasons......that Schobel is mediocre.....average at best.....liability for the team....needs replacing NOW!!!

Wanting the Bills to trade down......hmmmm.....I want to win the lottery. Wanting something to happen that is not in any way a certainty has no effect on the reality. In this case, the reality is that at best we can speculate a reasonable chance for a trade down to the #11 slot(due to the Broncos comments). To assume that we could trade down however we like to orchestrate the best draft.......and then put across that because we didn't do it we in some way made an error is unreasonable. I wanted Mangold too......but I also wanted Winston Justice more(as did many posters here). We needed a LT badly & WJ was rated as a top 12 prospect by many. At that point in time we had no idea what we had in Peters(nor most of the OL). If we were going to address the OL in the first draft of the re-build, it would have been to target a LT......not a C.....and had we done that we would have waisted the pick. Every draft for every team in every year could be magic if the fans were to assume their team could trade into whatever slot to get the players that ended up being good players......we conveniently forget all of the players who we would have been happy for the team to draft(eg Justice, Bunkley) when they don't pan out......and only focus upon when the players we liked do pan out(Mangold, NGata).

.....and what if Edwards excels? Even OK money for a QB now is mega-dollars ahead of what he is earning now. I see no reason why we cannot re-sign Evans, Peters & Crowell......and in a couple of years re-sign Edwards to a mega deal if it is appropriate. We certainly have enough cap room for this......and the way the C2C is eating tomorrows cap(&C2C) dollars today, we should be well positioned to sign Edwards down the road. Other teams manage to sign their important players...why can't we? I don't know what the cap(or cash) hit is this season for Evans & Peters but the increase from that is the real money that comes of the cap(&C2C). If Peters is on $3mil......and we bump him to $8mil......that is only $5mil difference. IMO our cap level has been low in recent times because we have not had the 'star' level players to fork the money out on. Now that we have some players we want to keep longterm.....the money is there to spend. Crowell may leave(value/money reasons) but Peters is an absolute 'must keep' player and Evans(due to the re-build timeline) is also a 'must keep'.....just as if Edwards pans out he will be a 'must keep'.

As I said in a post earlier......your trade down option(assuming it actually was there for the taking) was at the #11 spot. Unless one was going to draft Mangold there(he ended up #29 which IIRC was roughly where he was predicted to go) then how would you have acquired him? This is certainly 20/20 hindsight because you are using the fact now that he has panned out to in some way justifying that he could have been drafted #11 on draft day(which was never going to happen). True.....but obviously the Bills front office did & that is the only opinion that actually counts. Similar could be said for Mangold except with him, there was a good general consensus that he was a late 1st round talent.......every team in the NFL obviously agreed with this assessment of him since he was not drafted earlier. Others said(including respected media analysts) that the position of Safety has greatly changed in the modern NFL & that the position is no longer considered to be a 'complementary' pick......particularly for teams favouring the Tampa-2 D. The line of thinking from those people who said that was not thought through(most likely an emotional reaction due to their personal preferences at best based upon what used to be.) In the last 7 drafts there have been 5 Safeties drafted within the top 8(none in the previous 7 seasons). Obviously there has been a change in the way either how Safeties are utilized or that NFL teams look at the importance of safeties differently today than they did a decade ago. This is absolute bollocks! No offense but I am getting sick and tired of people having unrealistic expectations for certain draft positions & then putting those beliefs across as facts. Looking at DW......he is widely considered to be a top 16 safety(out of 64).....with many considering him to be top 10. He may yet perform like an Ed Reed if he was in a defense that didn't have a retread WR playing FS, 2/3 of the LBs being backup quality, some actual pressure from the DL & consistency from the CBs around him......i.e. maybe this season. Compared to other players drafted in similar position(6-10).....which is the ONLY thing that one can determine what ones expectations for the #8 should be.....we see(1997-2006)......and keeping in mind that DW has only played 2 seasons whereas most of the players below have 'become better' after 3 or more seasons in the league. *I'll probably put some players in the wrong areas due to lack of knowledge but the overall should be clear.* Better than DW Kellen Winslow Jr DeAngelo Hall Kevin Williams Terrell Suggs Roy Williams John Henderson Levi Jones Richard Seymour Brian Urlacher Torry Holt Champ Bailey Chris McAlister Kyle Turley Fred Taylor Walter Jones In the same ballpark as DW Ernie Sims Roy Williams Dunta Robinson Jordan Gross Bryant McKinnie Corey Simon Plaxico Burress Greg Ellis Chris Naeole Not as good as DW Vernon Davis Michael Huff Matt Leinart Pacman Jones Troy Williamson Antrel Rolle Carlos Rogers Mike Williams Reggie Williams Johnathan Sullivan Byron Leftwich Travis Taylor Ryan Sims Andre Carter David Terrell Koren Robinson Jamal Reynolds Thomas Jones David Boston Chris Claiborne Grant Wistrom Duane Starks Ike Hilliard James Farrior Tom Knight Results.....Of the 49 players chosen over those 10 drafts...... 15(31%) have shown themselves to be definitely better 9(18%) are of similar talent/production 25(51%) are of lesser talent/production When you factor in that DW has only played 2 seasons......and with low talent around him on a bad team(no help from the O).....for anyone to say that Whitner hasn't lived up to the expectations associated with the 8th overall pick is just plain wrong. After 2 years he has played at a level that is better than half of the players selected in the 6-10 range in the draft. He has definitely lived up to any reasonable expectations that one could place upon the #8 draft pick

Aaaah, but the movie wasn't really about aliens and crop circles at all.