Dibs

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Different indeed Though both are quite similar Lazy speaking thrives

HBD Lori.....for all the great stuff you do here, you deserve a great big expensive prezzy. Not saying I'm going to buy you one......just that you deserve one

Oh sweet irony Starter of the Haiku thread Gets first Haiku wrong

I think this is right on the money. I find it hard to think of the best of the best that don't(when it's needed).....use their brains(Thinker).....take a gamble(Gunslinger)......scramble(though this one is lesser)......stand in the pocket picking apart opposing Ds(Passer)......or simply take what is given to them(Game Manager). I figure HOF level QBs typically have a predominant style but have the ability to do most things......hence putting them in the HOF class. At this point, perhaps TE is a Thinker who has shown some Game Manager and Passer ability.....with a smattering of scramble. I'd like to see some Gunslinger come out in the next few years......and also see him get into the HOF

Fair enough. I guess my expectations of rookie WRs(and rookies in general) tends to be a lot less than most. To me, saying a rookie WR is not performing is actually the expectation.

Oh yeah.

Sorry.....I deleted the start your post which said..... Sounded to me like you were making an assessment well before its time.

According to league sack statistics it was under the average. Perhaps we had generally good pass protection.....with occasional meltdowns.

Won't be long to wait now.....only another 2 to 3 seasons or so & we'll most likely have a good idea about which(if any) WRs panned out from the 2008 draft.

Actually I think the pass protection had been a bit below par this season....until last week. This IMO is due to a rusty Peters who is now(hopefully) back at probowl form. The run blocking continues to baffle me though.

Sure did. I still feel a correlation between Game Manager & backup though. Of the 5 starter categories, the other four have the potential to win games on their own merits/skills.....the Game Manager doesn't. There are not many teams which remain content with a Game Manager at QB.....they are constantly trying to find one of the other types. I'd say there is no doubt that Game Managers end up being the best backup QBs.....they might not be able to 'win it' for you coming off the bench.....but they are unlikely to 'lose it' either. Elway? Good question. He was Gunslinger when he needed to be....could scramble.....and showed that when he had the right environment could be a passer as well. IMO Elway was magic.

With JPL showing promise and having had only 8 starts.....& having numerous huge needs throughout the roster it was obvious we were not going to take Cutler or any QB using a large amount of draft resources. Trade down? We would have ended with the #15 selection(selections 15-22....DB,DB,LB,LB,CB,DE,RB,LB). Mangold(selected #29) was not going to be selected at that slot. Like it or not, OCs are not considered to be positions of great importance(at least in relation to draft equity).....only one has been selected inside the top 20(17, Woody) in the last 15 years. Considering also that we had just signed Fowler.....using high draft equity on an OC while we had positions we were totally devoid of(and of very high importance), being DT and Safety was again....not going to happen. Unless one wants to imagine further trade downs(and limiting chances of getting an impact player), the only real options we had was DB or DT(N'Gata or Bunkley). Hindsight has shown Mangold to be a golden pick.......hindsight also shows the logical reasons as to why we have selected who we have(1st & 2nd rounds) over the past 3 drafts.......and it has nothing to do with having a bias towards DBs.

I think you've got a point here. Perhaps 'The Game Manager' is really a good backup 'Thinker'(or 'Passer' maybe) that under the right situation can get the job done & not lose the game......but is not good enough for the ups & down of long term success.

I really liked this.....good post.

Hmmm......based upon 3 drafts. The first we were not going to draft a QB.....nor were we going to draft N'Gata. With the talent on the board, this left us with drafting either a LB or a DB(selections ran LB, QB, QB, N'Gata, LB after #8)......and since Safety is very important in the T2 it made sense that we drafted one since we didn't have a starter on the roster. We didn't have a starting DT either(which is also important to the scheme) so they spent resources to trade up and make sure they got one(didn't pan out obviously). The second there was no DBs drafted. The third....secondary was in need(though not imperative) & the best DB dropped to #11 so we selected the best available player. Looking at the other viable options.....OT & RB(with Peters & Lynch, these were not reasonable options at #11).....the only viable player in the vicinity was OG Alberts(who was my preference) but with Dockery locked & Butler showing good promise.....and the concept that McKelvin was rated well above Butler.....he was the only realistic pick. In and of itself, the current regime has drafted quite logically. As it happens, there has been either a high need at DB or no available talent in the areas where we were more needy(i.e. 2008 there were no TE, WR, C, DE, DT or LB left at the #11 slot rated anywhere near McKelvin.....the first one of those positions went at the #28 selection). You seem to be influenced by Bills history here rather than analytical observation of the 3 drafts you are referring to.

I was of 2 minds as to whether you meant it as a joke....or as a serious knock/dig. It wasn't till your post #54 that you basically spelled out that you were not in fact doing a crayonzesque joke but were being serious about your views that the Bills 'always draft DBs' etc.

I'd say you're correct in that there is a higher number of 'very good' RBs in the league than Safeties....therefore it must be harder to find the Safeties. This is more important to C2/T2 type teams so I'm thinking that DW is extra important to us. Mind you, a lot hangs on exactly how good DW is. Personally I don't get to see enough games nor would I have the ability to make my own determination but even though there are some posters here who think he is average.....I'd go with the general consensus amongst analysts/coaches/players that he is pretty darn good......therefore making his selection in the draft a very good one. Totally agree about the disingenousness(is that a word?) of the thread. What in heavens name prompted it at this point in the season? Though it is true that the Bills over the past 15(20?) years have drafted a higher than league average of DBs in the first.....this is a totally meaningless stat. You draft for where your needs are and who is available at the time.....to assume otherwise is a bit single-minded IMO.

You are mistaken here The Dean......it is a big misconception that you can just draft a 1st round RB & slot him in & he will be a very good one. A very, very high number of 1st round RBs do not pan out for the team drafting them. 12 years of 1st round RBs......1995-2006 Red = bust for drafting team Bold = probowl for drafting team (1)Ki-Jana Carter (2)Ronnie Brown (2)Reggie Bush (4)Edgerrin James (4)Cedric Benson (5)Curtis Enis (5)Ricky Williams (5)Jamal Lewis (5)LaDainian Tomlinson (5)Cadillac Williams (6)Lawrence Phillips (7)Thomas Jones (8)Tim Biakabutuka (9)Fred Taylor (11)Ron Dayne (12)Warrick Dunn (14)Eddie George (16)William Green (17)Tyrone Wheatley (18)Napoleon Kaufman (18)Robert Edwards (18)T.J. Duckett (19)James Stewart (19)Shaun Alexander (21)Rashaan Salaam (21)Laurence Maroney (23)Antowain Smith (23)Deuce McAllister (23)Willis McGahee (24)Steven Jackson (26)Chris Perry (27)Michael Bennett (27)Larry Johnson (27)DeAngelo Williams (29)John Avery (30)Kevin Jones (30)Joseph Addai (31)Trung Canidate

You're not, related to Christopher, Walken, by any chance, are you?

A couple of weeks back PFW Whispers had this.....

The intent will vary depending upon the draft position....the players available....and the teams situation that is drafting. From such a high pick, teams obviously want a 'star' from the pick......though since many high prospects bust out, ending up with a very good solid player would still be considered a successful pick(just not a great one). If the intent is to find the next Sanders or Reed.....then the intent would also be to find the next Pace or Jason Taylor from your linemen..... The results....it's a bit too early to tell since the numbers are from the last 7 drafts. Looking at 2002-2004......giving players at least 4 season to show something special..... All of the safeties chosen have been in the 6-10 range of the top 10 so I have deleted top 3 selections from the list. Red is Bust Bold is probowler.....number in brackets Safeties Sean Taylor(2) Roy Williams(5) Linemen Mike Williams Ryan Sims Bryant McKinnie John Henderson(2) Levi Jones Dewayne Robertson Johnathan Sullivan Jordan Gross Kevin Williams(3) Terrell Suggs(2)

He was to the Bills.....and they were right. There was most likely several other teams who had him in the top 10 as well. Any team that goes with the consensus media opinions of who is a top 10 player & who isn't is bound for failure. As a fan of the Bills, I want them to draft the players that they determine have the best chance......not the media. That same draft Winston Justice dropped massively......this would mean he was a steal, yes? Mike Williams was generally considered(on draft day) to be the best OT prospect. The media was stunned when Edgerin James was taken ahead of Ricky Williams. Donnie Avery was considered to be a surprise pick as the first WR to be selected being generally ranked 5th-6th best.....looks like a good choice now. As for N'Gata.....obviously the Bills had concerns about him. Either that or simply had DW as the better prospect. Assuming he is the better player......that is something that comes about with hindsight. On draft day there is no hindsight & every top 10 pick are the players chosen in the top 10.

It can effect ones overall speed & agility.