Dibs

My point is absolutely regardless of politics. Personally I think a (predominantly) two party system based on personal popularity is not the best way to pick the best person for the job......it is however besides the point. You are correct, it shouldn't matter what colour he is.......and that is the point. Throughout American history it has mattered what colour a persons skin is. It has mattered a huge amount. It shouldn't have.....but it did. 40 years ago America went through a social upheaval.....people marched through the streets.....people tried to make their voices heard, the inherent racism in the culture was put on public display.......people were killed for this. The concept that as a Nation the USA has progressed to the point where skin colour doesn't matter to the extent it did in the past is a HUGE thing. When faced with the petty hatreds, bigotries and irrationalities every day by our fellow man......it is affirming to humanity that change(albeit over time) can actually occur.

I didn't/couldn't/wasn't allowed to vote but..... ....and I know this isn't PPP but...... From watching from half a world away I was filled with a sense of pride in my fellow man. Politics aside, it was only 40 years ago that MLK was killed advocating civil rights.......and now there is a black man in the White House. This really renews my faith in humanity. It shows that change can happen(for the better). It takes time, but it does happen. Well done USA

Like, you know, I'd kinda go with this one myself. Make sense to me Real chips are better for two reasons......they are yummier & they are not French. If the shoe fits...... Now that's just retarded.

Personally I don't have the ability to grade OLmen......so I rely on others. PFW had Dockery as the 10th best OG in the league after last season.....and most analysts(including those I trust from TBD) rated him as a fine player(though not dominating). Walker was being lauded as good & versatile earlier this season(when he was moved to LT to replace Peters)......I recall many a comment(and actual article) saying how he was certainly showing himself worth the $5mil price we are paying. These guys didn't go from decent(let's call it that) to scrubs overnight(a few weeks).

The thing that I find strange is that coming into the season most were convinced that we were only an OC away from having a very good OL. Probowl Peters, very good Dockey, new contract Butler & worthwhile Walker. IMO the ability is there.....it just isn't showing on the field.

Tee hee.....I liked this.... Yes, rookies take time to develop. Unless you’re one of the TV goofballs on draft day, you can’t judge a draft until two or three years down the line..... followed by this..... But this class has been a disappointment. We raved about Marv Levy’s two drafts, which produced instant starters on both sides of the ball. So it’s fair to say this group has been slow to develop. Interpretation...... You can't judge a draft until two or three years down the line......but I'm gonna do it anyway.

I have a feeling you could be right.....hopefully it won't take a total re-build of the OL to find that out for certain.

According to the Trade Value Chart(Usually used as a guide for trades)......it was quite a good deal for us. #2 = 2600 #14 = 1100 #26 = 700 #53 = 370 Total = 2170......plus Greg Bell Add to that that one is supposed to use a round lower(2nd instead of 1st) if the pick is for the following year and it becomes a very good trade for the Bills. #14 = 440 #26 = 320(2 years after) #53 = 165 Total = 925......plus Greg Bell In terms of the 3 teams.....etc,etc, etc it was a massive trade. In terms of basically giving up 2 1st rounders for a player(or high 1st round pick) it was fairly common.

Geez, what's your problem?

Shouldn't UFOs be the only one that everybody believes in? By definition they are Unidentified Flying Objects......and since there have been numerous flying objects that have never been properly identified......then UFOs 100% exist. This isn't to say that the objects are aliens(or whatnot).....just that they are UFOs.

A very happy Birthday to you Mead107. I will have a glass of wine tonight in your honour.

I think TE will certainly get the 300+ yards with 3+TDs many times throughout his career....particularly if we gain some consistency in the running game. Not this week though. Personally I don't care if he only reaches that benchmark on rare occasions.......as long as we are winning as a team then what does it matter? FWIW, HOFer Troy Aikman only had 3 games where he threw for over 300yards & had 3 or more TDs......out of 165 starts.

Mmmmm....cooking up the second one now....I can't wait.

Sorry to hear about your Mum......but it's good to hear that she is doing better. It looks like you enjoy the discussions, arguments & discarguments as much as I do. This is a great place to hang around.

No....but they taste delicious.

It's in my profile.....I'm an Aussie.....living in Australia

....or choosing between a $10 hooker & Paris Hilton.

I was going to say a similar thing. I don't know, but, I was under the impression that opposing teams started to make adjustments to take away the deep ball & force DB to be more patient(which I believe was one of his flaws).

It was me....probably said in this thread. I totally agree with you that if Joseph had been selected at #15 that he would not be considered a reach(I'm basing this on him being a very good player). The thing is though that he was selected #23. This means that the NFL teams selecting(generally) had him rated at around that level. Assuming the Bills had him rated lower than many other players, it would not have been a wise move to select him above those higher rated players(on their board)......this same applies to all the other teams that let him pass to the 23rd slot. In hindsight he has shown that he would have been a good selection at #15.....maybe higher(I don't know).....but teams have to go with their analysis on draft day(they can't wait a few seasons to see who is going to shine....then go back in time & change their draft board). Keep in mind though Bill that I personally believe that OGs should be selected much higher than they tend to be. From what I've seen they virtually always pan out in the first round. It surprises me that more teams have not picked up on this and place a higher 'perception' value on the position.....i.e. there is extra value in a player who you are more certain will not bust. BTW....yes, I was too harsh on HA

Firstly I'd like to apologize to you(& the board).....I've been unusually aggressive and short which not only leads to me being less concise in my arguments.....but also a bit rude in my responses(which I try not to be). I'll endeavour to explain why there can never truly be a 'reach' in the draft.....and only in hindsight can there be a 'perceived' reach. Often we see a player who is highly rated by the 'media consensus'(MC) drop waaaaay past his projected draft position(Winston Justice in 2006 was a great example of this). When this happens it shows us that a majority of the NFL teams placed a much lower value on the player than the MC. Most NFL teams had a totally different grade on the player than the MC. When a player is drafted higher than the MC......there are two extremes which could be the situation.....and everything in between the two extremes. The team drafting could have a 'hard on' for the player......thus having him rated well above every other NFL team. The team drafting could(like the player that drops massively) have a similar rating to a majority of NFL teams(which is different to MC). .....or somewhere in between.......with some but not all NFL teams having a high rating on the player. When a player is selected well above his MC draft position.....or well above others at his position who were rated much higher by the MC.....the media(obviously) calls this a reach as it is vastly different to the MC. Knowing however that the MC can get it greatly wrong(which we can see when a player drops a lot)......the only way one can know if a majority of NFL teams had the player rated similar to the MC or similar to the drafting team is to look at their draft boards(which doesn't happen). As examples...... Levi Jones was a reach....yet he showed he was worth the #10 selection.(How many other NFL teams had him rated that high?) Edgerin James was a reach(particularly being taken above Ricky Williams)......yet he showed he was worth the #4 selection.(How many other NFL teams had him rated that high?) Donnie Avery was a reach(he wasn't even considered in the top 5 WRs by MC yet was the first WR chosen).....yet he is showing that he could well be the best selection.(How many other NFL teams had him rated that high?) Ted Ginn Jr. was a reach.....after last week he is showing that perhaps he was worth the #9 selection.(How many other NFL teams had him rated that high?) Donte Whitner was a reach.....yet he has shown(so far) that he was worth the #8 selection.(How many other NFL teams had him rated that high?) With the concept that the MC can get it very wrong indeed compared to the NFL teams doing the selecting(shown by players dropping).....it is not logical to assume that a team that drafts a player above the MC has a 'hard on' for the player. It makes far more sense in the short term to assume that some(if not a majority) of NFL teams also see something in the player. If the player actually turns out to be a good NFL player then it strengthens the likelihood that more than just one NFL team saw the potential pre-draft. Even if the player busts out we can only guess at how many teams might/might not have had him rated as high as he was selected. Essentially what you are saying is that even though the Bills had a much more realistic(better) rating on DW than the MC......and that they were pretty much the only team that did.......instead of being clever for having such an astute analysts of talent they were in fact stupid since they should have known that no other team rated him as highly as themselves. Your logic assumes that the Bills not only over-rated DW compared to the rest of the league.....but that they would have knowledge of this and should have traded down. That just makes no sense at all. The reality probably was that many other NFL teams had him rated quite high. To keep trying to show how the Bills erred here does not make sense. If they were the only team to recognize the talent.....that's a good thing. If they weren't(more likely) they did the wise thing and assumed that other NFL teams don't actually look at the MC for their draft board & had DW similarly rated.

:wallbash:

I'm tired of continually trying to explain things.....you seem to not understand the points I make in relation to the way you are thinking.....instead of addressing the points you simply repeat yourself. You persist on saying the Bills made an error(when the end result turned out to be above average). You persist on relating everything to the 'media consensus'(even after I have shown you how erroneous this sort of thinking is). You then persist in wanting to ignore 'media consensus'(and the actual draft results) and shove players drafted in the late 20s all the way up to #15 or worse #8. You even persist in the concept that a teams FO should be perfect.....in that bad decisions ala Fowler & McCargo should never happen(as if there is some magical GM out there who always gets things right).....and that good decisions ala L.Walker should simply be run of the mill. FWIW, I've never said that the 2006 draft(#8 pick choice) could not have ended up better......I am continually trying to show you that not only was it a reasonable & logical choice(i.e. not a stupid choice)....but one which with hindsight has shown to be a successful choice(when comparing other picks 6-10). I'm done.

I don't get how you say this Bill. I don't see how we could have gotten down to the #23 spot in the draft to select Joseph.....I've already covered the Mangold #29 thing with HA. We were never going to draft a player who was obviously rated(in terms of potential & impact) much lower than the players available at #15(I'm assuming a trade down here with Denver). Here's a concept......perhaps.....just perhaps, the Bills absolutely loved what they saw in DW & had him rated well above most other players. They might well have been wrong but you'd expect your team to select the player who they had rated well above the other players available wouldn't you(ala Trent Edwards)?

Enough that you'd cut the other 3 RBs you drafted that year & rely on the decision? Or worse yet.....what if all 4 RBs you decided to draft didn't have the goods? Now you don't even have a decent RB. Of course there is.....the trick is finding that needle in the haystack though isn't it.....or do you figure that that would be easy enough to do? Apart from me pointing out that finding an equivalent replacement when you select inside the 1st round is hard enough.....how hard would it be trying to scour the later rounds to find the 'right guy'?

Bollocks.....prove it.