Dibs

This hinges around how good AS was(is?). You define him as mediocre. I listed 11 starting DEs who got new contracts in 2007 and ASs stats were well above all but one of them......and only a small jump above them in contract level. In 2006(leading into new contract) he had 14 sacks. This was with Tripplett & rookie Williams as his DTs.....Kelsay/Denney on the other end.....Diiorgio & Ellison as LBs.....a rotation of players at RCB......and one of the toughest schedules in the league. And not surprisingly made the probowl. Never got consistent pressure? Not even HOFer level DEs get consistent pressure. If other DEs around the league got consistent pressure......surely they would rack up more sacks than they do. Back when he got his pro-bowl there were several posters against AS.....saying he only got sacks in junk time etc. I compared AS with the only other two DEs in the league who were considered 'good' and had racked up similar numbers(Taylor & Peppers). I broke down how many sacks in individual games, at what times, against what opponents, etc, etc. Schobel compared with both. He did not have inordinate multi sack games against scrubs.....he didn't have an inordinate number of junk time sacks.....his sack numbers were spread over similar games to the others. I'm not saying AS was as good as those guys.....but he certainly was better than most DEs in the league at the time. You can make the argument that AS played like the DE equivalent of Barry Sanders(to a lesser degree) in that he produced more negative plays than the average good player.....but you still have to concede the inordinate number of BIG plays. Mediocre players don't make the big plays(sacks) to the level that AS had done. He wasn't a super-star DE when he signed in 2007.......but he was certainly well above the average starting DE in talent, consistency and production.

All Bills fans live in Hell

Air conditioning can only do so much......mind you the shopping malls(which have great aircon) are packed. .....and yes....a nice side effect is the girls wear less.....but unless at the beach, the sun is too strong & they cover up Thank you all for your.....ahem.....sympathies. You can all get fu ed

Looking through all of the DEs signed in 2007.......it is clear that AS's contract was actually cheap for his production over the years. Veteran DEs do not come cheap.....the lowest of the 11 signed was for $4.9mil/year. Schobels pro-bowl appearance & over 10 sacks/season make his $7.2mil/year seem a bit low. I would imagine that if he was a FA in 2007, rather than reworking an existing contract he would have gotten $9-10mil/year. Starting DEs signed in 2007.....listed in order of highest $$$/year. Dwight Freeney 5 years exp....3 probowls....56.5 sacks(11.3/year) 6 year contract, $72mil($12mil/year)....$30mil guaranteed Charles Grant 5 years exp....no probowls....26 sacks(5.2/year) 7 year contract, $63mil($9mil/year)....$20mil guaranteed Aaron Schobel 6 years exp....1 probowl....60.5 sacks(10.1/year) 7 year contract, $50.5mil($7.2mil/year)....$21mil guaranteed Ty Warren 4 years exp....0 probowls....13.5 sacks(3.4/year) 5 year contract, $36mil($7.2mil/year)....$18mil guaranteed Cory Redding 4 years exp....0 probowls....12 sacks(3/year) 7 year contract, $49mil($7mil/year)....$16.6mil guaranteed Patrick Kerney 8 years exp....1 probowl....58 sacks(7.3/year) 6 year contract, $39.5mil($6.6mil/year)....$19.5mil guaranteed Robert Geathers 3 years exp....0 probowls....17 sacks(5.7/year) 6 year contract, $33.75mil($5.6mil/year)....$12.5mil guaranteed Dewayne White 4 years exp....0 probowls....14 sacks(3.5/year) 5 year contract, $29mil($5.8mil/year)....$13mil guaranteed Chris Kelsay 4 years exp....0 probowls....12.5 sacks(3.1/year) 4 year contract, $23mil($5.8mil/year)....$11mil guaranteed Vonnie Holliday 9 years exp....0 probowls....49.5 sacks(5.5/year) 4 year contract, $20mil($5mil/year)....$10mil guaranteed Aaron Smith 8 years exp....1 probowl....34 sacks(4.3/year) 5 year contract, $24.5mil($4.9mil/year)....$8mil guaranteed

I'll swap ya

There are some players on both those teams that I have no idea how good they are..... OG Lutui, Wells, Kemoeatu, Stapleton (Could Butler & Dockery start ahead of any of these guys?) CB Hood, Taylor, McFadden(Townsend) (Could Greer, McGee.....even McKelvin start ahead of any of these guys?) TE Spach......5 catches in 8 starts OT Brown, Gandy, Colon, Starks (Peters is a probowl OT......Could Walker start over some of these guys?). Good teams are usually littered with mediocre or situational talent.

I'm dying. My entire body is wet from perspiration. I hate this heat!!! 4 days now of 40-45 degree heat(104-113 Fahrenheit).....it's been worse in Adelaide apparently. Our average January temp is usually 26 degrees(79F) I wilt at 30 degrees(86F) Looks like a cool change tomorrow......36(97F)

I'd think that there's a good chance you are.........you can't get things wrong all the time......surely you're due.

Still not as far as Australia though.....

I think this is a bit of a generalization. Marvin Harrison is certainly one of the great ones(though having Manning passing to him surely helped his numbers). He is 2" taller yet 12lbs lighter......and unless I'm mistaken has not been known for being overly physical. But I generally agree. I think Evans could be awesome given the right circumstances.......but.....

Cool.....we'll find out from the expert. I don't want to preempt anything here but......both the links you provided stated that the signing bonus was amortized evenly over the length of the contract.

Sort of......but that first example didn't imply one way or the other. From that first link above.....Question 1.7e For example, if a player signs a four-year deal with a $1 million signing bonus, $250,000 of that bonus will count toward team salary for each contract year ($1 million divided evenly over the four-year contract is $250,000 per year).

In a nutshell.... My parents are English so I wasn't indoctrinated into the local game. A friend introduced me to American Football......the first game I watched was the Bills/Giants superbowl. I picked a team to root for on the day.....my selection was mainly based upon helmet logo.....and Thurman Thomas. I joined & played in a local league for a few years which catapulted my interest in the sport. It was a great time to follow the Bills but my love for the team was cemented by the class of the organization(how they treated people compared to other teams) and players(though not saints, they had 'football character').......and the class of the fans. As example......the reception given to Scott Norwood(after wide right) by the Bills fans actually made the sports news coverage out here. Thousands of fans cheering him really highlighted what being a Bills fan is all about. I was & am proud to be a part of it.

Shamrock & I both live in Melbourne......and I recall another poster from Australia(vaguely).....as well as the Alice Springs poster. Interestingly it looks like Alice Springs & Melbourne are about the same distance from OBD.....9,500miles.

From the article in your second link..... The signing bonuses do in fact count against the NFL salary cap, under a prorated system. This means it doesn't all got tossed into the team's salary cap for one season, but rather it's spread evenly over the duration of the contract length.

Nice post C.Biscuit. The only part I disagree with(and it's just the wording really) is the last sentence. HOFers can be found all over the draft(generally speaking). Drafting higher just theoretically increases your chances of landing one. The situation a player is drafted into I think also effects how their careers pan out. Moulds IMO was a good example of this. He was a great WR........but if he had top players around him for his career(instead of the rubbish he generally had) it's not ridiculous to think he could have put up HOFer level numbers.

I remember being surprised at the negativity on the site when I first found it. I've come to realize that apart from it being only natural(for some to look negatively at things rather than positively).......the site does provide an avenue for people to vent and let off some steam. Most here are extremely loyal fans(fanatics) who sometimes just want to voice their frustrations to other fans. I do draw the line at people who advocate wishing death/injury though. Being frustrated is no excuse for acting like a complete arse. BTW, I'm with Cincy.....good posting.

They have no choice but to amortize it evenly. A signing bonus is always divided evenly by the number of years in the contract......and counted towards each years cap(your figuring of $700,000 was correct). Ramius explained what I meant best in his post above when he said...... It baffles me why(particularly with Evans) we don't give as much up front to players as possible(as a roster bonus). When we extended Evans contract, we were well under our cap and C2C levels. Had we done this, it would not only leave little to no cap hit if he leaves(cut, injury) but also frees up both cap and C2C space down the road.

I should have said 'big contract' rather than 'star players'......as most of our big contracts have gone to decent/good players(at best).

Cash to Cap means...... The actual dollars that get given out to players in a given year do not exceed the cap amount. This does not mean that there are no amortized bonuses.....only that they would generally be used less or be of lesser amounts. Even without amortized bonuses, players still want their guaranteed monies. This can come in the form of 2 or 3 years of guaranteed salaries......which means that cutting a player could have a negative cap impact the following year. If used cleverly, C2C can be used to leave a team with a massive amount of money to spend down the road by front loading contracts with star players. Unfortunately the Bills have not done much of this to my knowledge.

The Bills totally ignoring the interior OL positions has been appalling. Bringing in Dockery has been the only real attempt at getting some talent(it should never have gotten to that point in the first place). To those that say....."Good teams build from the inside out." though, I respectfully disagree. IMO, good teams build with the total team in mind.......and not totally ignoring one aspect(ala interior OL).

.....and when you consider that there would obviously be a large donkey vote percentage for the fan votes(voting for 'the guy on your team')......this would drastically reduce the fan vote strength.

No......but I feel we have a lot more talent than many people believe......and certainly a lot more talent than the combined negative views of TSW.

Most of our players are under contract. The only two players not under contract that are considered to be decent are Greer & Crowell and I can't see us tagging either of those.

Luckily reality isn't effected by the consensus of message boards.