Pyrite Gal

Its nice there was a run on defenders early which has left a lot of OL players on the board, Also, the fact that Winston Justice has dropped has seenmed to create the side effect that teams feel like there is enough OL value left for them to hold off,

The one thing I would guess for sure is that the "new" Bills are all about being a team and this is true of not merely the players but also the braintrust, Ny guess is that though a Modrak, Levy or Jauron can be correctly labled as the initator or an action of prime advocate, unless this man has co-conpirators who are willing to be upfront in joining them as advocates I doubt it will happen.

Either the Bills are seeing things that no one else sees or they are seeing things that are not there. Its all so odd we have to wait to see reality to judge, though I am sure that people are going to be entertained by complaining.

We could use OL but please I hope the character word holds as Justice apparently is plummeting due to character issues.

Yeah true, but what many legend in their own minds fan draft gurus fail to admit is that we are missing critical pieces of infomation which can make the difference between the close marginal choices of a player turning out to be a bust or a great pick. So much turns on how good the braintrust is in what I call looking a guy in the eye to judge whether he is gonna be Peyton Manning or Ryan Leaf (or Edgerrin James or a Rickey Williams) is the real key to making a good choice here. Marv has a track record with his long term winning Bills teams of making good coices and managing these personalities well in the past. This is no gurantee whatsoever that he will make a good choice now, but it has earned him the benefit of the doubt IMHO (though I have tons of Whitner doubt). The pick was weird, the reactions and handwringing are even funnier.

While i also disagree with this pick (mostly because I think we shoulda/coulda traded down to get him) I do not see that also acknowledging reality in terms of adding Whitner to this team is sugar coating this pick I would not have made. Whitner is clearly an upgrade over Coy Wire at a pivotal position for this team. I think this is true. Do you disagree? I think they could have gotten this quality of player with a trade down to the mid first, but while i disagree it is hard for me to say really this is a disaster. Given I am missing the critical fact of having talked to this man and that based on what we know about Whitner he is a clear upgade for this team at a position of critical need in a Cover 2, I think the failure to see reality here is those who declare this a total disaster. Perhaps it is for those more tuned into fantasy football snd whose season revolves around draft assessment rather than Ws, but this is a pick I disagree with which has plusses and minuses.

I definitely agree with the thoughts. I think it is unfortunate that Marv does not seem to trade much, but though this not perfect it is not a fatal flaw as best I can see.

Let's watch what happens when the season starts to make an even better judgement about the quality of this draft. Whitmer appears to cleary be a bad pick as best as I can tell because we shoulda/coulda traded down and still get him and also get additional draft picks. However, he clearly is an upgarde over Coy Wire, and there appear to be other options we better get to fil out holes at DT and on OL. We'll see.

Whining about what is likely a reach for Whitmer is legit as this gives the Bills a horrible (and probably unrecoverable this weekend) start at being ranked as having a good draft. However, folks need to keep in mind that finishing first in the eyes of pundits and draft fans is meaningless compared to finishing first on football field when the real play starts. I am displeased with this pick because I think that they could have gotten Whitmer with a mid first pick and I wish to heck they had traded down and gotten another first day pick as we have several needs for starters who are not yet on the roster. However, you need two teams to make a deal and perhaps they could not get this done with a team that made the Bills feel secure they could get Whitmer. I feel good about the Whitmer acquisition in terms of team building as I would have felt good about Huff as this team badly needs an SS or else we would be depending on Coy Wire to run the Cover-2 SS for us (can I say uugghh). Basically, one of the things that all of us fans and most pundits lack in terms of info that the Bills have is that they got to talk to the man, shake his hand and look him in the eye. This all comes down to marginal difference between most players and an assessment of their character and how the will fit into the a winning team is the key to whether a decision works out or not (along with the wildcard of injuries. The Bills will likely have a lousy grade for draft picking today, but if Marv and the gang do well building a winning team and we get lucky with the vagaries of injury, this may be a great choice by the Bills. I think offhand they could have made this same choice later, but who knows as it takes two to deal.

This true that it is a wasted pick in ranking the draft, but it still might be a good or great pick in building a football team if he produces on the field. We will see. It all comes down to who knows really what the future will hold.

1. Marv looks pretty old age picking a guy he seemingly could have traded down for. 2. The rants and whines from alleged Bills fans who are distraught that there own stone lock cold decisions were not followed with the #8. Overall, the pick looks pretty weird, but the best sign it may be a good choice is all the whining it has producd from the so called experts. Everybody agrees this one makes no sense, the only real thing to do is to wait and see how he produces on the field. I guees it is draft weekend so whining is allowed and in fact encouraged by just those who say say what you want just get the name right. If you are selling a product it is far better to have folks talk about you (even if they are ragging on you) than ignore you.

This is gonna be hilarious is Jets fans go nuts and kill themselves because the Jets take D.Brick over Leinart. I hope they go Leinart so we can get D.Brick

The NFL Network will never have good journalism and reporting as its primary goal as its primary goal is to sell a product (aka the NFL). ESPN also has as its primary goal (by law under the system of the good ol USA) to sell stuff to return profit to its shareholder, but to the extent this is achieved by getting a rep for good ports journalism, ESPN developed a rep for seeking out fact and reporting its opinion (like Mel Kiper challenging various GM's decision-making) even if their opinions challenged NFL stakeholders. Yet, in the new world, NFL Network has been created because the fiscal powers that be recognize that if a third party like ESPN can make money even though at times they are simply pretending to be objective, that the NFL can make money by pretending to be objective as well. I think we as consumers (it seems unfortunate that is all people have been reduced in a world with an information highway) can play a role of fostering truth and good jourmalism best by whining about the NFL Network (and in a growing amount ESPN as the CBA gas shown the NFL that there is more $ to be made by these individuals if the cooperate to get $ fir the oublic rather than competing between the worketrs and the owners) and by pointing out in as factually and statistical way as we can episodes of NFL Network not reporting the truth to sell their product. On the other hand, we can easily ignore truth and just enjoy football. Even when you are getting screwed, if you both enjoy the sex it is fun. The great thing about the NFL Network and TV generally is that we consumers can simply turn it off and go enjoy something else if we want. No really does mean no when you control the remote. Turning off the TV (or the computer for that matter) and going outside is a big part of liberation.

Yhe Bills already have a lot of work to do manging their current draft board with a lot of picks to make (thankfully and in contrast to last year). It already seems to most folks it is a stretch (though a possible one) that first time GM Marv will complicate this situation by inserting in a significant trade (a swap with the Rams for an extra 2nd seems more likely). However, even though this is possible I do not think anyone considers it likely. The suggestion is that Marv is actually going to add to this questionable possibiliy by also managing to find a second trade partner. Add to that life will now be complicated by them managing at least 6 first day choices (if not more from these trade-downs) and even that thought that Marv is going to enter into the high stakes world of draftng a QB only to pull off a trade for him while managing all these picks and the board. Its theoretically possible but really heads off into fantasy land pretty quick.

I think most folks are reacting to this very talented draft pool (according to many observers both credible and incredible) with the sense that the draft is a real crap shoot under the best of circumstances. Given thiis basic uncertainty, they are generally interests in having more chances to succeed (or fail) than reducing our # of chances and increasing the need for success. In particular with this draft, the consensus observation seems to be that there really is not a huge difference between most of the best players (D'Brick for example is clearly the best LT, but has some questions that no one confuses him with Boselli or Pace as a prospect) and a ton of folks in this apparently deep draft (even the 3rd round should provide some players with no unreasonable hopes of being first year starters when usuall the second round is the end of this road and often only the 1st rounders have much of a chance of starting, If these factors prove to be true the trading up would be a very bad move, particularly for a team that needs multiple starters who are not on the roster yet. Further making this view important is that the few players who appear to be very special in this draft (Ngata MAY be a great DT choice but only MAY and anyway Bunckley appears to be about equal and some folks even have Cargo as a first year starter but others have him as a second day choice) is the sense that the extremely special players who are virtually certain blue chips (as opposed to folks like D'Brick who while clearly is the best LT is a probable rather than certain blue chip) at positions of lesser need (Davis at TE for example would likely force the cut of Royal, Euhus, Everett or Neufeld if not two of them when there is reason to keep any of these four and Hawk if selected will force Ralph to pay millions for an LB to sit on the bench and assure the cut of Posey and maybe one other player). If we took one of the true BAPs we not only would have to cut a player we would pay a bunch too but we still would have holes not filled by the current roster at DT. SS and probably OL. This all mitigates against the notion of trading up.

What it seems to say based on their unwillingness to resign him for what the market would give him and several factual occurences last year and the word (rumors) from the Panthers and their fans is: 1. He was quite productive at G last year as Carolina was a winner and the word os they were already high on Mathis and wanted to play him but did not make the switch because they were winning with Reyes playing guard and playing it productively. 2. Mathis provides them with a guy they think is working his way quickly up to starter level pay and he gives them a huge cap advantage even with his slotted contract )with loe or prorated base pay) while they market for Reys as giving him a substantial raise. In the end, Reyes is a substantial improvement for the Bills because we were not satisfied at all with our LG play last year. I think it is quite foolish to argue otherwise. However, does this mean that even though Reyes is certainly an upgrade that he will also be an adequate starter for us at LG? Likely the answer is yes he will be an adequate starter as he played well enough a a starter for a productive Carolina O last year, though it was at RG last year he has played LG before and at 7 years of play he is at about his prime as an athlete and having relatively little erar and tear early in his career and starting a full 16 ;ast year ir is not unreasonable at all to hope/expect he will at least be adequate as a starter. Again however, does this mean he will be better than adequate and actually a very good LG? The answer strikes me as possible but doubtful. After 7 years a player is usually at his athletic peak and the though experience may allow him to decline slowly and be solid for years, it is unlikely he will improve much beyond his current play which was good enough to keep the well-regarded Mathis on the bench. However, the fact that Carolina let him go and went with Mathis confirms that he likely has little upside to grow beyond his current level of being a productive starter. I guess (as we all do) the bottom line is this: 1. Reyes is visualized by the Bills braintrust as having good potential to be a starter. However, our OL needs talent and if they get a chance to draft a top uuard with other needs taken care of they will go guard. 2. However, the acquisition of Reyes really lowers our need for more G helo and if the choice comes down between a G and another need position at SS, DT, or OL, all things being close to equal the Bills will take the other equivalent talent rather than the G. 3, One of the primary benefits that Reyes offers is that he can play RG where he was for Carolina, LG where we need help as he has played this position before and even C which is talked about as part of his espertise. While he can be replaced if a stud LG is on the board and no DT, SS, or other OT is available and Reyes can move to create competition at C, his acquisition really lowers the chance we will draft a G on the first day or two overall. If someone has a crystal ball and want to suggest which stud G will be available AND we have no need or ability to improve things at DT, SS or oOT, then do so. However it looks really doubtful all these events will occur at the same time and I suspect all of them will have to be the case for us to pick 2 Gs in this draft or even pick a G on the first day.

The key is competition on the field. I would love to see Reyes start (or Holcomg, or JP, or Nall, or even Ochs) if they win the job on the field. I don't care which players play as long as they produce for the Bills. The one thing I do not want to see ever again is a player being given the job off the field like JP or RJ were by someone (be it TD or the whines of fans) being dealock sure about who they think is good or who they think is bad. its realy these judgments that have killed the Bills.

I agree with this based on the fact the QB (and the center actually) handle the ball on each O snap. While both QB and the C are makng formation decisions and communicating them to teammates on every O snap, the QB'd duties are broader and more expansive than the Cs. However, like the C while both positions are critical , they both are dependent on their teammates doing their job or their efforts do not amount to much. One can argue the QB position is the most important (just as one could reasonably argue the C position is critical or even 2nd most important but when it comes down to a decision to draft a player this importance decision really amount to SO WHAT as far as putting up Ws is concerned and winning the SB as soon as I can which is my real priority. If the greatest probable QB in the world is available, but also a player at a position which is a gap on my team that I think is one player away from winning the SB, I pick the player that most helps me win the SB and pass on getting this potential stud QB The actual place where QB is all important and I might pick on over a player who I judge better helps me win is because we have a society where our little brains like rooting for one person rather than worrying about the intracacies of the game. QBs are often picked in the 1st and are over-rated as best as I can tell in terms of making the difference and even the biggest difference on the team and on the field mainly due to putting butts in the seats and marketing rather than the game. The over-addiction to the QB spot is the main story IMHO and our horrible record since Jimbo left. Having caught lightening in a bottle with a cocky QB who;s frailties as a teammate and a team leader were nicely compensated for by the Bills having a plethora of solid leaders (Kent Hull, Darrl Talley, Tasker, etc) simply allowed this team to win and overlook Jo,bp's antics that came along with his good play. Since then our braintruat: 1. Misassessed how long Jimbo would last (Ralph even made a handshake deal to compensate him in next contract only to have to pay him a million bucks walking away quitely money after a concussion drove him out the game. This whistling in the dark belief he would last longer than he did made us draft a replacement a year later than we should have. 2. Despite our belief he would last, the handwriting on the wall and our lateness made the Bills overeach and spend a 2nd on Collins. 3, When it became obvious that TC was not the man after we tried to rush him along his happy feet probably could not have been trained out of him, Butler panicked and traded a third for Hobert who was such an idiot we had to cut him. 4. Panicked by these three errors the Bills desperation actually produced a good outcome as we were one of the only (if not the only given how little he signed for in base pay) we signed Flutie with a promise he would gat a fair shot at the starting QB job. However, we destroyed a chance of good play by him being all positive by turning around and signing RJ to such a big bonus it gave him the starters job regardless of play. 5. We added injury to the injury added to this insult by setting things up so that when DF played like AJ Smith expected him to we ended up owing him all is achieved bonuses in his next year caP hit AND had to pay him his achieve bonuses as base pay AND there was still the pro-rated bonus of RJ's contract. Even with the forced reduction cap hit we had because we had to renegotiate DFs contract to sign him long-term (and thus prorate the bonus over the life of the contract, we still ended up for the 99 season with a cap hit for the QB position so large we had to cut vets who might have knew enough to stay in their lanrs on ST. It actually was our panic as we looked for the next Jimbo which ended up costing us out last appearance in the playoffs. 6. If this was not bad enough as the Bills were rocked by the DF/RJ controversy under Butler, TD ran into this buzzsaw and got the same illness. Trying to see if RJ might work in 2001 was almost certainly not going to work and TD recovered nicely from watching him screw up as his Bills career by getting Bledsoe in a trade (s good move in my book as the available alternatives where Chris Chandler and Jeff Blake). However, TD drank the QB Kool-Aid as well as a very good Bledsoe first season was followed by a horrendous 03. TD should have called it a wash at this point and simply cut Bledsoe. Instead the QB marketing addiction got him to extend and renegotiate the Bledsoe contract. Ironically, he added injury to this injury not simply by trading up to get JP, but making the same mistakes as Butler by giving the starter job to a player who had yet to prove it on the field. the results were a disaster. QB is an important job, but the thing that has killed the Bills is that they seem to have the same attitude as the one reflected in your post that is addicted to the QB slot as though it were the same thing as developing a good team. IT IS NOT. The Bills have 3 QBs on this roster who will compete against each other to start. I generally agree with Marv that when a team has two starting QBs it has no starting QBs. However, to me it simply means pick one and stick with him. The important thing is to build a winning team and not to cashier team resources and attention by being addicted to getting some "next" QB to market the heck out of. QB is an important cog in the wheel, but in the end it is simply a cog in the ehrrl if we are looking to get Ws.

Trivia question )of deep import for those of us who are second in the heart of my lovely wife to songwriter Take It Easy songwrite Jackson Browne). Do you know Jackson Browne's real first name? (Details later for those who care)

If hawk falls to 8 this would be great news because my sense is that many teams lower in the draft would be salivating for him like many in this thread. Drafting an OLB and paying him the slotted #8 contract would be horrbile for team building to get more Ws as it would be definition force the Bills to pay millions to a player to sit on the bench this year as well as make us unable to fill gaping holes for a starter not on the roster at DT and SS (not to mention the continuing need to reinforce the OL). Drafting and keeping Hawk gives us a great player but really hurts development of this team. It would only be great for the Bills team because the chances are high we would find a trade partner willing to give us more resources to move to the #8. If Hawk dropping to #8 got us Bunckley or Ngata, and Justice or Winston, and a safety like a Bing in the second round this would be a very good draft for us and do far more for us in terms of generating Ws that getting Hawk and one second round pick with the job of filling holes at DT, and SS, and OL around Hawk.

Taking a QB with the #8 would set back team building by a year or more, On the face of it, they would be paying a #8 slotted contract to a player who will sit on the bench and learn or tries to recreate the rookie year results of Ben RoboQB wth huge holes in the Bills line-up and without the Steelers juggernaut around this youngster. Even worse, drafting a QB forces the Bills to either cut Nall (which costs an accelerated bonus for a player we just signed, cut Holcomb (Which also costs us this year's prorated bonus for him at no production this year from Holcomb for us) or cut JP (which costs us the biggest accelerated bonus hit and would amount to us cutting an running instead of trying to develop this fellow we paid a bunch for. It ain't gonna happen and if it does simply ignore the Bills until 07 at best if not 08.

Agreed. It will take the Bills doing thw work of driving (basically this means keep talking an negotiating and say only positive things about wanting him as a player because being negative merely creates leverage in a situation where you are in charge ofr this year and potentially next if you choose) but the Bills are in the driver's seat in relation of NC playing. NC has the theoretical ability to throw a hissy-fit and refuse to play, but doing this (particularly after last season was disappointing for him) puts him at an even larger fiscal disadvantage that there is no logical financial reason for him to do this whatsoever.

Ngata will need to be coached but the thing for folks to keep in mind is that by definition all rookies are not vets and they all will need to be coached both by the old men in charge and by their teammates on what it means to be and play like a pro. In fact, some of the busts we have seen in this league were talented players with little seeming failings but these legends in their own mind proved to be uncoachable by their elders or their peers. There are two raps on Ngata which should give a reasonable person pause: 1. His tendency toward great athletic plays from a big guy (the kick blocks by him for example) but also for taking some plays off- I am necessarily phased bu this as we are well acquainted with DTs like Adams who would go off on vacation often but he still was a Pro Bowl quality DT because the opponent always needed to prepare that this would be one play he took off and enbarrassed them. He always commanded a DT and gave the rest of the DL one on ones. If Ngata takes half the plays off he will be ineffective. however, if he takes 1/3-1/4 of the plays off he can still be a great player. if he needs to do this in order to be fresh in the last quarter and opposing OLs who are on each and every play are worn down I have no problem with this equation. It would be better is he was always on, but this is reality and it ain't gonna happen with many big body guys. The fact both his parents recently passed away ironically may actually end up being a crticial reason why he does improve actually. If part of his inconsistency came because he was freaked by the life altering event of parental death, perhaps this was the reason. In addition, if he was inconsistent merely because he was a party boy, getting drafted by the NFL and working for a living in conjuction with the patental deaths can be a life altering event. Forget the wonderful judgments of us fans who saw him on TV or from the stands, a far more accurate measure of his coachability will come from those who can shake his hand and look him in the eye. 2. There is a rap on him of recurring injury. This may be true, but the Bills docs made the correct call that disagreed with the norm on WM and I am fine with them either rejecting or endorsing Ngata based on their read. There us simply a world of difference between the medical effects of operating with a pro training and conditioning staff and the best weightlifting and training equipment an NFL team can buy and have it shared by about 50 guys compared to the very good but not at the same level as a professional team equipment and professional guidance. The access to doctors is unparalleled to what is available to a college athlete. In the end, like a 5 year old we all control what we put in our mouths and if the Bills braintrust has any sense that Ngata is going to be an irresponsible teammate and eat himself into oblivion they should chose someone else. However, if the braintrust makes the judgment that he will be an adukt now that he is an adult or that the gut wrenching change of losing both parents which word has it he has reacted to by taking solace in working even harder. If the braintrust with access to Ngata himself that none of us armchair addicts can ever have thinks he is worth the chance, I support Marv and the crew is this judgment.

Actually, it does not take a ton of intelligence to see that its the other way around. Everett was a wasted pick and cap allocation due to injury last year. One cost of picking Vernon Davis is that the contract and cap hit of Everett will be a waste in 06 as well. This time it will not be by chance it will be by choice, However, the impact is still real and one needs to consider this cost when one makes a draft pick if you are interested in a building a winning team within the limitations of a salary cap all team suffer under. The cost of drafting Hawk is even more clearly seen. I think he is a great player who should start immediately for the Bills. However, this choice pushes TKO, Fletch or more likely Crowell who we just gave big bucks to to extend his deal to the bench. We likely will need to cut Posey even without drafting Hawk at #8. We have all seen how Ralph hates to pay big bucks to a person just sitting around (as seen in him anointing RJ the starter based on his mop-up work on a disheatened Colts team and his foolish predictably losing effort to not pay Wade when he canned him). My sense is that though there is a lot to be said for the Beat Player Available approach with a team as far from winning it all as the Bills, Ralph is likely not going to allow us to pick a player whose prescence puts big bucks. It would be dumb to think Euhus is better than Davis, but it would also not be the brightest thing to not recognize that Ralph pays attention to every $ and that the $ paid to Everett to sit on the bench again by our choice or to extend and pay a big up front bonus and then park Crowell is not likely to happen in the Ralph world.

I think that this view of the world which is not fully consistent with reality comes from folks (particularly we see this just before and after draft day) really overemphasize the draft as THE key to building a SB winning team and even as THE key to build a winning squad. The draft is an important tool for building a winning team (mostly it seems to me because almost all good players get drafted and good players have to come from somewhere). However, it is only one many tools and at best is necessary but not sufficient for accomplishing NFL goals. I have pretty consistently harped on the simple fact that when RoboQB played QB for an SB winning Pitts team last year, he was actually the first 1st round drafted QB to do this for the team that chose him since Aikman was drafted by Dallas way back in '89. If folks view fielding an SB winner at the ultimate goal then perhaps we should have a bunch of mock drafts for the 6th round because this is where NE took Brady and he was the key draft pick for this team rather than the psychotic focus on 1st round picks. If you want to analyze the NE TEAM which worked with brady to score that first SB win in their run, then one should note that there is a good case to be made that the key to BB building that TEAM was his acquisition of 15 players that year after the June cut date. Actually, pobably the key to that SB winner as best as I can tell was LB Lewis with the Jets. He was the one who socked Bledsoe and collapsed his lung forcing him out of the line-up. If this had not happened then by the time the team benched the 0-2 at the time Bledsoe (if the ever did since benching a big money contract for a 6th round rookie choice just does not happen in the NFL) the NE team would likely have missed the playoffs that year and given BBs record of failure as an HC with Cleveland the him going back on his word pulling out of an NYJ job he had taken, it is more than conceivable that without Lewis the best HC in the NFL may well have never even won an SB. The Brady situation makes actually one of the better arguments of the importance of the draft (though the 6th round was way more important than the first) because if you look at the other QBs who led teams which won it all you have: 1. Robo, Brady and then twice cut Brad Johnson leading TB to glory. 2. Pedestrian Trent Dilfer showing why rather than choosing an overpriced QB early in the draft, it was a better team-building strategy to pick up a two-time loser QB to not make mistakes so your D can win you an SB and you only pay him the vet minimum. 3. Kurt Warner was plucked from the stock boys at Home Depot rather than over-relying on the draft 4. As so it goes back to the 1989 picks. The effect of the psychotic over-emphasis on the draft are twofold- 1. Teams judge their first round choices like Pickett not on what the do in the real world but what is expected of them which is way more than a normal great athlete can produce. Thus a Pickett can be a far better than average player according to the market, but he simply can be a bust according to pundits and fans. 2. Great players like Favre and Young are avaialble to teams in trades or folks like Johnson and Dilferr on the waiver wire because fans and teams rise up against them in disgust but they actually are simply paid big bucks to learn by the team which drafted them and get paid lesser bucks (at least initially) to really play for teams which recognize the import of other means of acquiring players. The draft is this week so its fun for the psychosis to infect us all, but when we return to normal there will be a recognition that this is all about realizing the draft is but one tool and oftern for a winner at a particulalar time well down the pike in importance for acquiring a winning team.