Pyrite Gal

I think you are sorta right in that I think what you seem to find troubling and what BADOL has trouble watching is that I think I can see where the tackling issue stems from. TV's final #s has him credited with a number of tackles which i believe were in the low 70s and placed him about 7th in tackles on an unproductive D. However, what I think could use some additional substantiation if it is to be credible is the opinion that he is easily hurt. Sure he is getting older and like Milloy and Villarial what used to nicks he played through could become an injury. However, when you look at the stats (I know that you find song more credible than stats, but I think they while they prove nothing completely in themselves, they certaintly are an indicator which one would have to be fairly football ignorant to either ignore them completely or to accept them as gospel without some consideration). TV actually started 16 games for the Bills last year. He like Milloy got hurt last year and this clearly impacted their ability to wrap up on opponents and to make tackles. However, BADOL is correct in saying that drawing a conclusion of cowardice on his part is incorrect as he clearly played through these injuries and started each game (in fact, if he was so obviously bad as some say it makes a pretty good case for why Baker probably isn;t the guy to rely on to step up if TV were cut because he could not even beat out a player BADOL had trouble watching. A more in depth look at this situation also reveals something interesting. A look at TVs tackle totals per game reveals a story typical of many aging players. He started a lot stronger than he finished. The difference with TV was that his start in the tackling area was quite impressive. He actually was credited with a double digit number of tackles in both the second game against TB andthe 3rd game against AT. The idea that he was such a weenie as a tackler particularly does no make sense when you consider that half his tackles in the AT game were solo tackles where he took the opponent down on his own rather than getting run over and getting credit for an assist because the bottom of the opponent shoe was touching his face mask when another Bill brought him down. His numbers look pretty good until the KC game in mid Novemner where he suffered an injury and missed the second half. There was a marked drop-off in the total tackles credited to him after and prior to this injury. Yet, lest you be too quick to write him off or declare him easily injured, he once again was credited with double digit tackles the next week against SD and join in a solid performance by the team to wrack up double digit numbers against CIN. However, in most of the final games we saw him register only 2 or so tackles several times. My sense of what this points to is: 1. If you consider the fact he had a strong start last seson (2 INTs to go with the mere two tackles against Hou, but then being credited with double digit tackles about half of them solo tackles in the AT game there is nothing inherent in his play last year that shows him to be a slacker or weenie. 2. He did get hurt (though so did a stud like TKO) last year and it is reasonable to figure age was a factor. 3. However, he clearly played through the pain to be credited with double digit tackle #s twice after the injury which knocked him out of a game but which he played through to start the next game. Add on this, that even after his injury and after the Bills season was clearly in the toilet, he made several playmaker plays getting an INTv. CIN he returned 42 yards and several key fumble recoveries and asses defensed thoughout the season. His productivity as ballhawk even after he was hurt makes think that the easily injured tag may be incorrect or at least does not tell the full story. Overall, even if he were to hit the wall suddenly as someines happens with older players and that even the norm; NFL nicks tend to neurtalize the effectiveness of an older player the situation for the Bills looks quite good. He most likely scenario for this playing out strikes me as. A. TV is not cut this year (as I think the thought offered by BADOL and probably you is based on his union duties (as BADOL highlighted) or how much money he has made and has in the banks due to his cagey investments (as you have strangely noted). Neither issue has much whatsoever to do with how well he performs on the field and this will either likely be by far the main thing which determines his fate amd quite likely will be the only thing. B. Again, though age can strike suddenly, given his leading the team in turnovers gotten last year and even late in the season turning one INT into a 42 td. return and his starting all 16 games last year, barring a freak injury (which TKO will tell you happens sometime) he will start a bunch of games and be effective in many of them. C. As an older player though he will get hicked and it will either force him to beh bench let him play less effectively due to the nick. However, if he even gets through half the season with the type of production he showed last year consistenly until gurt and episodically afterwards that will be what we need. 1. Whitner will be an immediate starter for us, but supplementing his great physical abilities with TV analysing and counseling him in safety play and coverage techniques and vet tricks should sink in by mid season and if TV is out it will still be mission accomplished in terms of training this rookie to be a vet. 2. Likewise we are all high on Ko Simpson as an eventusl stud FS and Yobouty who has 1st round physical talent, but should have stayed in school this year as he has a 3rd round experience and discipling at CB will benefit from having TV as a teacher, example and advisor/ If/when TV goes down if its in the second half of the season, we may end up with current #2 Baker stepping up but Simpson with TV'help may be the next Eric King, a rookie ready to step up by late season. Yet, though I think it is more likely that the question is WHEN rather than IF TV goes down, I think given his productivity cumulatively last year (including some end of the season play like his INT against CIN and him registering double digit tackle numbers) that it actually is more likely he will play all season that he will play so badly he deserves to be cut. so: Most likely- he will play long enough to train his replacements. Second mot likely- he will play all season productively as the Cover 2 is much morehis game than the zone blitz and requirig him to read plays and pass cover will keep him healthier than requiring him to pinch up and ruin stop as required of safeties in the zone blitz/ Unlikely possibility- He gets hurt grievous;y before game 8. Really unlikely- he gets cut and we go with Rashard Baker at FS who likely has nzxed out in his ability to develop and who was not even good enough to replace a TV you say sucked.

1. Maybe my toleramce is higher than yours, I am made of sterner stuff, or simply so not know the game as well as you, but though I cetainly see s healthy Milloy as a far better tackler than a healthy Vincent, I have no trouble watching him play and do not find him awful as a tackler. It is however because I certainly do not rank him high as a tackler but recognize that if he was awarded multiple Pro Bowl berths (by his peers, coaches and fans who vote for Pro Bowl) that he must have been a heck of a cover guy in his prime if he was also such a lousy tackler. Ae any rate, regardless of what folks tend to see which is at least influenced by their preconceived notions, the key thing for the Bills is that we are moving to a Cover 2 scheme from a zine blitz scheme, this means that the FS's primary duty will now be pass coverage rather than playing the line in more of a role which the LB traditionally plays as a run stopper. Yes, the safety must still tackle in a Cover 2 but logically one must view this switch as significant in some way. Don't you? My sense is that TV clearly has more of a ballhawk interest than a take the body interest (Hence him tying for the team lead in both INTs and FRs) and the switch made him a far more likely player for the Bills to keep than Milloy. His being an older player is definitely a negative, but one of the positives that comes with his advanced age is experience as an ability to read plays and routes is going to be central to good FS play in the Cover 2. A post which assesses TV which ignores these points lessens it credibility. 2. My recollection of the Bills signing of Vincent was specifically based on the idea that we got him for a relatively small contract (this is reflected in the relatively low cap savings from cutting TV which played a role in the decision to cut Milloy which saved multi-millions for the Bills in cap hit) was that he was given a lower contract because the plan always was on his and the Bills part to move him to safety. I think TV has pretty much met the Bills expectations for what they got for him (and by agreement of all parties what we paid for him. That is to say he is a player who started for us at CB when he arrived, but made the switch to safety as soon as our CB development allowed. This actually happened more quickly than we planned on as TV got hurt and McGee learned the spot in a trial by fire. However, outside of this problem, and the persistent concern for any older athlete (like Milloy last year or Villarial this year) dings that were formerly nicks can become injuries, I think that rather than guessing as you do the Bills expected stupidly to get the Pro Bowl CB Vincent, I think it was fairly clearly stated upon acquisition and by him agreeing to a contract with safety money rather than CB money, this move was always envisioned. Has TV lost a step from his peak? Yeah (maybe two). However, he can still play FS as indicated by him tying for the team lead in both the areas of INTS and FRs and likely even more so as the scheme is switching to his strongest suit. 3. I agree that having Rodney Harrison instead of TV would be great. Yet, in the real world this ain't possible. However, I think his union role should have zero impact on the preferences of someone more concerned about what is good for the Bills rather than someone's ideological dislike for unions. If one wants to consider the potential football impact of the Bills cutting this player and leaving any implication this was done due to distaste over his being voted NFLPA Pres by his fellow athletes, the Bills actually run some risks if they give this impression. Should the players feel that the Bills are declaring war on their elected president because of his union activities, I would not be surprised if all things being equal an FA chooses other teams over the Bills. To this point Buffalo is seen as a straight-shooter willing to judge players on their merits on the field and actually FAs like Adams and Spikes (and even TV) chose to come here at deals seemingly below what they could get elswhere. Marv comsulted with TV about the signing of Jauron and I think this sent a positive message to the players and we will get more loyalty and perhaps better play because of it. I was also quite intrigued by the way things went down last year with Moulds. The NFLPA even did things to come to the defense of that idiot TO. Yet, when Moulds was docked a games pay for his tirade against management, nary a peep was heard from his fellow Bills opposing this action. My guess (and it is simply a guess) is that his fellow players (likely in some way agred to by TV as he is NFLPA pres) did not rise to Mould's defense as: 1. He threw a little hissy fit not due to him being treated unfairy by management by in fact has helped the team by being a decoy rather than a featured player and actually it was really a sign that Evans (with chemistry with JP) was now athe #1 WR over the aging Moulds. 2. There is also the possibility that as his fight was with Tyke Tolbert (obviously popular enough with management that he held his job with a shift in HCs ) and also Tyke like Moulds is an African-American (so there was no race card for Moulds to play if Moulds choose to) there was little ground for supporting any Moulds c;aim anyway. Still i was surprised when the suspension was taken without a discouraging word from the players and that Moulds was so dead certain convinced that he was out of here but the braintrust was still saying positive things about him. I think the issue of TV being NFLPA pres is irrelevant to me in terms of assessing wether he is a good, bad or indifferent player. To the extent that the real world operates differently from my principles though, I think that us outsiders may well be incorrect in assuming that TV is defintiely a negative because of his NFLPA role and that actually, the Bills would run quite a risk if there was any perception that we chopped him because of his NFLPA role.

This certainly seems a lot more logical than the Bills giving up with no evidence on Everrett and taking the accelerated cap hit for doing this. Or giving up on their leading turnover producer last year when the scheme switch plays toward his skills and their is a definte use for him to be an on field tutor for the young DBs we have.

Eureka! I now understand what I was doing wrong all this time this time, I was looking at stats as an indicator when i really should have been listening to people sing 9or at least reading the words) to draw conclusions about this stuff. While I'm sure there are folks who recognize the name (get 'er done Marv) there likely is a reason he still unemployed. Again I am disappointed not to really see any reason sited in terms of his on field performance for why Vincent should be cut. If you want to point to the subjective because for some reason songs are a better indicator than stats, are their specific plays of note last year where TV was repeatedly a problem (or the unemployed Shulters) is a better choice?

I still haven't heard or seen any credible demonstration that the team's leader in turnovers claimed last year as he tied for the lead in both INTs and fumble recovered does not have game compared to the other members of our fatally flawed 05 D. I'm not arguing that he is as young as he used to be or even that he is a great player, but the facts are he produced in terms of turnovers better than any other Bill last year. Like it or not them is just the facts. When you add into this that the scheme is moving from the safety playing like an LB to the safety playing like a centerfielder it moves to his demonstrated area of strength as a former Pro Bowl quality cover guy and granted an older player but one who has seen a ton of plays. Like any human being he almost certainly has lost a step as he has gotten older but given he had the speed to cover the other guys best WR, he had a much higher base of speed to lose a step from than Milloy. When one added in the salary fact that there was a much greater cap gain from cutting Milloy (multi millions) than the few hundred K that is still all that would be found in cuttring TV, those who argued or cutting him rather than Milloy seemed foolish to me. Finally, the last seemingly objective argument trotted out is that we drafted a bunch of stud DBs which makes TV expendable. On the contrary, it actually heightens TX's value to the team this year (we will see about next year) as neither Yobouty or Simpsom seems ready to contribute to the the team untrl mid-season at best and having an on field teacher like TV will actually speed this process. Perhaps Ralph is so small that he will hurt this team's ability to get Ws by cutting TV out of spite because he is Prez of the NFLPA. My sense is that I do not think Ralph is that small of a person and even if he is he and Marv want to win more now and unless he has suddenly hit the wall keeping TV provides specific benefits in terms of his 05 performance relative to the rest of the team, the scheme switch to an area of his past expertise and a definitie teaching need of talented youngsters. I repeat all this because i do not think we can even agree to disagree on this when those who advocate his cut have presented zero beyond their seeming soap opera based dislike of a union pres for saying he should be cut. He produced more on the field than most other Bills last year (again acknowledging the fact that a healthy Milloy is a better tackler than a healthy Vincent is not saying at all TV cannot tackle because he can, just not as well at Milloy at his best) and those who advocate his cutting have presented nothing more than fact free opinion so there is even little real there to disagree with.

I agree this is unlikely as I do not perceive we are going to simply pass on Everett and take the resulting cap penalty without even getting even a little look at what he does in pre-season camp, the fake real games against other opponents in pre-season or a the regular season. This surrender would be to declare him such an obvious bust he never should have been recommended and drafted by scouts still with the team and we take the accelerated cap hit as well with nothing at all to show for it. Royal is in, Everett is in, and we will need to find the 3rd TE from between Cieslak and Neufeld. The Bills seem quite comfortable with this though fans are not as they search for the next Tony Gonzalez. If Everett is such an obvious bust then why would anyone trade for him. Folks also seem more than willing and in fact anxious to ditch Troy Vincent. This makes little football sense to me unless age causes him to suddenly hit the wall. Given he led this team last year in combined turnovers by tying for the team leads in INT and in fumbles recovered, there seem to be few objective signs that his productivity in this area is anything but best on this flawed team. Add in that the move from zone blitz to cover 2 is toward his past stremgth in coverage (in addition to the limited cap benefit of cutting him this was why it made far more sense to cut Milloy than TV). Also, like it or not neither Simpson or Yobouty are ready to contribute to this team and drafting these young rough DBs actually enhances Vincent;s value as an omfield teacher rather than makes him a likely cut this year. Finally, while this team does not have a definite solid #2 (though Price is likely to be this man given his tremendous #2 output for us in 2002). We do have 2 fairly definite #3 quality WRs (PP and Parrish) and 2 definite #4 quality WRs (Reed and Aiken). With the wildcard Davis (also possible #2 quality though doubtful, probably #3 quality and definite #4 quality) and younster Fast Freddy (probably #4 and definite return guy. Why would you look to get a Leile (maybe a #2 but likely a #3) when all this means is that we likely would not upgrade WR performance with his presence and we have to cut even another pro quality WR. Weird things happen in the trade world, but looking for Leile or Johnson seems to make little football sense.

I think TDs ultimate miscalculation which cost him his job was that he concluded that JP's learning curve which he would have last year would be less brutal than it was. He knew Bledsoe provided not much of a chance of carrying this team to the playoffs after the debacle in Pitts, but even still the smart bet was that a bad Bledsoe provided more than a learning JP. I don't think he realized how devastating effect it would have on the D to feel that the Bills were willing to consign the offensive production last year to a learning session for JP rather than take its best shot (even if its best shot was bad) at winning. From what I can see, it actually proved to be a disadvantage to have 10 or 11 starter return on D as there was a ton of film available to opponents on our D scheme and the individual players. The loss of but one player PW weakened this unit in run stopping and provided a clear area for opponents to attack successfully. JPs initial horrid struggles (really a worse case for him in production though I think it is way premature to write him off), combined with an obvious point of attack on the D and then the loss to injury of TKO and PWs inadequate replacement Edwards simply opened the floodgates to a meltdown. I think TD assumed he would get at least another year to right the ship of state. but the meltdown was so horrid and Ralph knows he ain't getting younger so even TD being a great business manager (salary cap management, partnerships with folks like St. John's Fisher and Tops) was not enough to save him.

Applying this hypothetical to the real fake world of the NFL. Fans are certainly well within their "rights" to advocate that the NFL equivalent of "Steve" be cut or somehow disciplined for blowing off the voluntary session. Also, the NFL and the NFLPA are well within their rights to ignore rants about advocating this point unless it has some effect on something they care about (the adoration of fans or more likely the bottomline profits). In general, its all about entertainment and ultimately about winning and losing. Even if the Bills lose, they have built up such an adoration from local and fans around the country that folks are still manic about it and spend their nickels for their team. Running a team has always been a tougher sell than running a team in a town with a larger population base and a more go-go economy like DC. However, as part of the whole NFL structure, team owner Ralph still makes money hand over fist over foot in this "tough" market. All signs seem to point to even after 5 years in the playoff wilderness under TD and little more than hope of making the playoffs under Marv that the fanbase is generally rabid. Ralph has the ability to essentially cry poor and set up NYS government getting the shovel ready in this falls gubernatorial elections to shovel tax payer cash into the Bills coffers. If this does not work, the team has the option of competing in the North American marketplace with the threat of moving the team to LA after Ralph is dead or even to Toronto to rake in the bucks. In essence, they have the full capability to consider something like your hypothetical or the particulars of the Willis situation and say so what if they choose to. As far as Willis goes, there seems to be a pretty clear answer for him as well to really say just spell the name right as far as any publicity about him. Ultimately the team's fate regarding W/L will be determined far more by what he produces in terms of yardage on the field and TDs he scores than whether he shows up for OTAs or not. He does not seem to be an inspiring character at all with the inwardness of a personality he has demonstrated in his brief time with the Bills. if he provides any leadership it would be nice if he was a Darryl Talley but he seems to be more of a Bruce Smith who even worse is on qualudes (actually wasn't Bruce on qualudes when he fell asleep in car). Really the only leadership was is gonna get from WM is if he puts down a lot of yards and TDs as a rusher and pass receiver. Willis has clear things he can do to maximize his "leadership" on the team AND also maximize the big bucks he can make personally selling his personality. His task is to get himself into the best physical shape he can get in and to increase his notariety in the press. he has chosen a coirse of working out at the U to get himself into the best shape he can (signs such as his recovery from the injury and the muscle and weight he put on last off-season are a clear indicator he is serious and diligent about this. Even better for him by not only pursuing this course at the U. but making a point of blowing off the voluntary worjouts and saying stupid (but not illegal) things like his baby momma comment on ESPN, he can raise his visibility among the same rubes who will send nickels his way just as they did when Ray Lewis proved his street cred by being involved in and beating the wrap on a murder. It strikes me that some on this board have a fantasy wish that Willis is going to be a vocal leader on this team when he has shown no signs of having the type of character to do this. Even the general threat of the rantings of these fans disapproving of Willis being such an idiot actually seems to play right into giving WM street cred to make a bunch of money off being an idiot. If he can produce yardage and TDs on the field I have no concern all that WM does not attend voluntary workouts or that he is no Darryl Talley, Kent Hull or whomever. Folks may not like it, but really the only real thing they can do about this is to remember not to get impregnated by Willis. Otherwise, as long as he gets his body into the best shape it can be in to do the job he can do, it eems silly to get mad at him because he is not doing the job (being a Talley/Hull type leader) when he shows no natural ability to be this type of person (he seems to be a fellow who likes sitting in his spartan apartment and play Nintendo when he is not making babies). In addition, it seems to both suit his interests to get himself into the best physical form possible and also to help him make money from society. by blowing off the voluntary OTAs.

I'm glad you agree the players should not be punished for missing the voluntary practices by being cut or some other item that hits them in the wallet (thouh suddenly becoming an FA would be a great reward to WM as the bidding war for him would be intense. If TO can make out like a bandit financially from getting waived then the benefit to WM would be enormous. I'm amaxed that some folks want to reward him by cutting him. This would only produce worse behavior by individual Bills. I would not tell anyone that the players need the time off to perform because quite frankly none of them need the rediculous money they get for playing a boys game. Working playing football an extra month or even an extra 5 months so it truly is a year round job does nothing to justify the outrageous amounts of money these men receive to play a boys game compared to someone who really serves society like a soldier, a fireman, a school teacher or what have you. Worth and value are two different things in this society and world and it strikes me as poorly thought out to view an extra months work as making a big difference when none of these athletes remotely is compensated based on the value he provides to our society. Compensation is determined instead by worth and in this society even though a soldier provides far greater value, they are compensated based on their financial worth as entertainers. For me, I value what a soldier does for our country far more than WM's contribution as an entertainer. Now do I think because one of these entertainers attends every voluntary OTA and is a leader of these men playing a boys game that eveb though he gives more value than WM that he still like Willis is not even a fly speck on Pat Tillman's dead butt. Mo. I think folks will show they have a clue if the really want to assess the personalities of players that the real scale here is not WM's value compared to Rashad Baker (who attended all the voluntary OTAsas far as I know. Both are relative zits compared to Tillman who left all this money behind to truly serve. This is a football board and its fine to compare simply the football players and leave reality out of this. However, some of the comments about personality and the value of a particular person as a player clearly extend beyond the field and football. I'm not saying that WM deserves a free ride, i am simply saying that if his non attendance at voluntary practices is a problem then we will see it on the field. Until, then these assements by folks are of marginal import and if they try to make them seem important by asseting broader value judgments then they run head on into a real scale where even a player totally devoted to his team and the game do not even fit on the same scale as a soldier, perace officer, etc or someone who has real value.

I know there is a desire to adopt or support a one size fits all strategy for operating a team, but the fact is this is not how real life works. Some players eat all this up, and profit in football performance from attending every OTA. Others are fat pigs, know it and not only have to attend every OTA, but need and enforced diet or they will overeat, choose to live in the same town as their team and get a specific diet from the coaches and ask that the team recieve a report from them each week about what they put in their mouth and check their weight weekly. Others cannot bring themselves to ask for help and gain weight anyway that effects their game and the team forces them to put weight clauses into their contracts. Others like Chris Villarial are on the backside of their careers and are so nicked and banged up they miss a bunch of OTAs to allow their bodies maximum time for healing and to avoid even the potential for additional nicks received stretching or working out in shorts. Others such as Willis have shown their dedication to working out by coming back from a brutal injury (he was highly motivated by money as he saught to get a 1st round draft pick and TD negotiated and incentive laden contract that demanded performance for pay from him). In addition, WM demonstrated last year that he could dilligently pursue workouts and pump up his muscle and weight working out at the U, and not attending voluntary OTAs beyond a drive-by visit. Some make a point of attending voluntary OTAs as they do not have the on field rep to be leaders but earn in from their personalities. Some do better simply forgetting about the game as much as they can until practices are mandatory. All of this gets balanced off against a sense of building a team into a TEAM which attending a practice and abandoning your wife to take care of the kids while you bond with the boys is a way to do this. However, if this type of interaction is required then all should agree to this and the agreement between the team owners and the players specifically sets some tteam activities as mandatory and some as voluntary. If a player breaks this agreement then he deserves to be chastised, but if the team goes back on its word and punishes players who meet the agreement then they should be chastised as well. It MIDHT be nice if all vets showed up for all the OTAs (it would be pretty crappy and low character in my view for a player to abandon his wife to take care of the rugrats or if a child is sick to hanh out with the boys at a voluntary practice, It would be crappy and low character iIMHO if a player abandoned seeing a sick parent to hang out with the boys. I would be concerned if Chris Villarial whom I do not expect to last this season spends much time at all at voluntary OTAs. The voluntary sessions are simply no required and its fine with me if these adults miss these sessions as long as they show up ready to play. WM has clearly worked hard on his own these past three years and I have no problem at all (unless he shows up not ready to play and has not worked hard on his own) with WM skipping the sessions as he clearly works hard on his own. My sense is that WM, like many athletes is an odd bird and actually he adds a little edge to his game by being different. he is not a leader of this team except by example and even with the production outage in the second half of last season, his production of rushing yards in his short career provides enough of an example and with his clear hard work as a Bill on his own and at the U i am happy to give him the benefit of the doubt. If the team demands that he attend an OTA then they should hold out in negotiations to make it mandatory. They did not as attendence at OTAs is a good thing for some but not for others in term of their production of the field. A one size fits all approach may be simpler to understand and deal with but this is not real life at all.

Agreed we have already had this conversation but clearly due to my inarticulation or failure to write slowly enough you somehow have gotten the impression that I said TV is not able to tackle. My apologies for giving you this false impression. I had assumed that simply because my post said "TVs game which historically has involved laying some lumber on folks (which he has shown no reluctantance to do) but he is more of a coverage guy." that you would understand that from what I have seen TV has no reluctance to lay the lumber (this means tackle in my confused little world) on opposing players. I think it is true that a healthy Milloy is a better tackler than a healthy TV, perhaps this iswhat yuou interpret as me saying TV will or cannot tackle. Milloy is a better tackler but I think TV is more than sufficient (but again opinions by you or me are not worth all that much and people tend to see what they already believe). The stats (whether football or baseball( are not conclusive at all but they are indicators of performance and often can be strong indicators. While it is possible that the Bills will cut the athlete who was tied for the team lead last year in INTs and FRs, I simply doubt this. Perhaps there is some objective basis for this belief that you can share with all of us morons. Perhaps it is simply fact free opinion. We shall see. As a Bills fan i really hope that TV does bit the wall that age brings to all of us eventually. However, the good news is that many objective signs such as: 1. The aforementioned statistical leadership in turnovers produced by Vincent. 2. The Bills switching from an emphasis of safeties playing the line to safeties playing pass coverage. 3, The great youth DB acquisition in the draft and the utility of these youngsters learning the game not only from their coaches but also from a fellow player who has demonstrated great respect from players and also great respect for his past play as a multi-tiome Pro Bowler. are all objective things which all can see which point to this team being much better if TV can play like he has in the recent past and thus the bills keep him. In all our past discussions I have simply seen no objective arguments that would make it a good thing to cut TV. There certainly have been strongly expressed opinions I consider to be fairly fact free that he should be cut. However, just as these opinions were proven wrong or ignored when folks suggested TV was gonna be cut or that Milloy was a more likely keeper than TV, I suspect that folks who are phased by the soap opera aspects of getting pissed at him for doing his NFLPA job are quite likely to be wrong about this football decision to keep or cut him. I certainly claim no clairvoyance or inside poop on Bills decision-making and if he has lost it on the field I say cut him also. There just seems to be little objective evidence that this will be the case.

Perhaps I make a different assessment than you or perhaps we have different goals for our team. Either way I am all for the guy who tied for the team lead in INTs and in fumble recoveries as TV did last year to be our starting FS. TV is getting old for the pro game and he could hit the wall suddenly which if he does we should look elsewhere. However, his statistical productivity and my observations of the game (I think the stats are a better indicator as we all see generally what we want to see including me) indicate that TV has not hit the wall yet as a player. Even though he almost certainly has lost a step or two in speed as he has gotten older (he had more speed to start from as historically he has covered the opponents best WR and struck me as a far better keep than Milloy). The other two big things is that our switch to a Cover 2 and our draft has greatly increased TV's utility to the Bills. He was required to play in a zone blitz scheme last year which was far more Millou's game as a big hitter who can pinch the line than TVs game which historically has involved laying some lumber on folks (which he has shown no reluctantance to do) but he is more of a coverage guy. As a safety in a Cover 2 (or the Tampa 2) it will be demanded that he be more of centerfielder. As an older dude he has seen a lot of plays and this style will easily extend his career by a year if not two. Also of import, we drafed Whitner, Yobouty and Simpson and it is harder to imagine them learning how to be a pro (which all rooks even immediate starter Whitner must learn). They simply cannot do any better than learn at the knee of a perenial Pro Bowl CB in the past who is respected enough and had his head screwed on straight to be elected by his peers NFLPA Pres. Folks can whine if they want to about these athletes being way overpaid to pay a boys game. It isn't fair, but if folks had not noticed life isn't fair. Because life isn't fair if he hits the wall due to age cut his butt and I hope the door does not hit him on the way out. However, given his production on a bad team last year, our scheme playing to his strengths, and him having a role to train players how to play on the field and at least stay out of trouble off the field, I look forward to rooting for Buffalo Bill Troy Vincent this year. In case folks haven't noticed, the owners beat the NFLPA's butt so bad in the replacement player battle of the mid 80s that the NFLPA had to pull out their nuke of threatening to decertify themselves. The team owners confronted with the horrible option of negotiating with individual players in a free market, instead agreed to form a partnership with the NFLPA to restrain trade through the draft, the CBA, and lawsuits by both parties against people who try to follow the free market route of MLB, NBA, tennis, golf etc and play when they are well under the age of consent. In the new CBA the players are not only partners but arguably the majority partners as they take home 59.5% of the gross revenues. Cry if you want but this is the way of the world and America in particular.

I think you are right on target. I love the quote from a Supreme Court Justice (Brandeis I think) who said that it was possible for him to 52 weeks worth of work in 50 weeks, but impossible for him to do 52 weeks worth of work in 52 weeks. My sense is that the players play better if the OTAs are voluntary and in addition to getting paid to play a little boys game that they take a chunk of time off to forget about being judged by the coaches and the fans. As long as Willis gets to 2000 yards rushing faster than any other back in Bills history, I have little problem with him skipping voluntary practices. In particular given that in the past two years he has shown incredible diligence by working himsel into the physical ability to start and then last year worked out diligently at the U to put on the muscle needed to get pounded by Brian urlacher and Junior Seau, I think the motivation issues raised on TSW are little more than whining. Its American society and we operate by The Golden Ruke, he who has the most gold generally rules. WM is a talented guy and by agreement between the players and the team the OTAs are voluntary. If the teams do not like it they should have held out to make OTAs mandatory. If we fans are jealous because these men are so well paid to play a boys game, then we can whine to no effect if we want to or go watch something else.

My question is that if funny bounces of the ball and dumb luck leads to the Bills improving or being competitive in 06 does TD deserve any credit? I'm sure that he won;t get any credit and I am sure that if the likely happens and this team is sub .500 he will get a lot of the blame. However, the two conclusions would seem contradictory to some extent (unless the gains or losses are all performed by Marv insired acquisitions). Folks migjt want to step up now and state whether they think that the '06 squad is primarily or at least substantially a TD creation and deserves the primary or substantial blame if they suck and also credit if they prosper. Alternately, one can decide the team is different enought that in essence the TD era is done with his dismissal and blame/credit goes generally to Marv. I think that the players are substantially TD acquistions and he deserves a big chunk of the blame if they continue to struggle but also will deserve some props if the team improves.

I gained a lot more respect for being interested in watching golf a few years back in the mid-90s when I kept seeing in my review of the sports pages, article after article heralding greg Norman's extraordinary play in that year's masters. The Sunday morning papers all agreed that Norman had built such a big lead after the third round that even with a foldo of galactic proportions the final holes might be an interesting competition. I was cable surfing around and stumbled upon the Masters with the final pairing of Norman and Faldo playing the 10th or 11th. Amazingly, not only had Norman imploded so badly but Faldo was standing on his head with each shot and the tournament was for all purposes over. It really was amazing watch what in essence was well over an hour of death march as these two played the back 9. The announcers simply spoke with subdued mourning about how huge of a meltdown this had been. The final drama was that when Norman finally holed out to end voyeuristic monstrosity he did the only thing a human being could do in the face of this agony he gave his fellow competitor a big hug. What amazed me even more was that Norman was so beaten that he could do nothing but accept the hug and hang on himself. Sorts is a weird thing. Golf in particular earns its nickname of a good walk spoiled, but I really had never witnessed such a psychodrama played out of the public stage. I never envisioned I would watch golf and as folks can tell from my verbose football psots, I am deep into the details of the game, but when it comes to golf I could care less about the details of whether it would be better to do a fade or a cut shot. If the final round involves a good soap opera and testimoney to the hum an condition I will watch.

Thanks for the thoughtful commentary. My response to some of your notions are: 1. The MW to Peters comparison strikes me as an upgrade in large part not due to Peters strengths (yet we hope) but MWs weaknesses as a player/person. JMac seemed to have to work overtime his first season applying sticks (threatening to move him to Guard) and carrots (the gameball for one of his games) in 2004 to shke him out of the lethargy caused by the death of the grandma who raised him. It seems a better use of his time and skills for the Bills for him to teach football to players rather than have to spend time doing the Svengali act to get even an adequate performance and a professional approach out of a player. My guess is that he like Peters simply because he is a sponge compared to MW in terms of learning and applying football lessons. 2. The Anderson situation is interesting to watch. The frustration for me with his play last year (particularly after we had spent the big bucks on him) was that his several false start penalties and a few plays where he got beat seemed to be simple inattention and a lack of focus on his part. Physical mistakes happen to the best of them from time to time and are forgivable for me as a fan (unless they happen all the time), but mental mistakes (particularly after you have agreed to a big contract) are pretty difficult to take or escape getting blamed for. Still, it is amazing how some folks can have a sudden epiphany often seemingly triggered by weird little things as we get older (for example, I'm not sure what got into Sam Adams but he proved to be a different player initially for us as he took far fewer vacations during the game for us and really gave a big effort. Ultimately his basic personality emerged and he proved to be a me first player who would not play a less effective for him stay at home style even though it made the Bills a better team. Edwards was simply not the wall PW was which gave Adams more of a chance to freelance. Our prime need last year was not his extraordinarily quick first step but his big body clogging the middle. I think the irony here is that Adams was probably the prototypical body we need for the Cover 2 as he coul clog the middle against the run with his big body, but still shoot the gap from time to time with is great first step. However, in the end, one cannot count on him to do what he is told and I think he was cut as not really a coachable player in the twilight of his career). If Anderson had some moment of clarity this off-season which results in him playing up to his capability, the Bills OL may actually be awesome to behold. A revived Anderson could either be a back-up which gives us great flexibility at G/C with Anderson/Reyes/Villarial/Fowler and Preston giving us as many as 5 reasonable players at these spots or if he makes a total revival and plays like we expected him to play when we gave him the big bucks G may turn from a problem area to a deep area for us. We'll see. If Losman actually proved to be as good as a performer as flawed Jake Plummer rather than give more like Todd Collins like performances you can mark me down as pleased. As far as KH, the key to his production being very good strikes me as being if the speed of our WRs plays out well. If opponents are forced to give Evans, Price and Parrish ample cushion in the routes due to their speed and thus make it easier for them to cut off routes and allow KH to make good vet reads and dump it off to them where they Run After the Catch bigtime, this O will be very dangerous. Thanks again.

Its about time and I am pleased about this. Given that so many teams have gone through complete idiots as coaches it is amazing that no one but no one would hire this former NHL Coach of the Year. it would be nice to see the Islanders do well merely to have John Muckler roll over in his grave.

I think it looks likely they will be better in both regards: OL- The 06 starters should be am upgrade at 4 of 5 starting positions. (If you disagree then please say who) MW-Peters- Definite upgrade even though Peters brings the uncertainty of any youth, but right from the start MW was troubled and not productive Villarial-Villarial- I suspect this will be a downgrade as CV is a year older on the backside of his career. i did like Preston as a fill in for CV last year though as things that would have formerly been nicks are injuries for CV now. Fowler-Teague- Fowler apparently was pretty good replacing an injured Birk several times last season. There is a question how Fowler will do being relied upon for 16 games, but he was not resigned by the Vikes not because he sucked but it was clearthe market was gonna pay him starter money in his FA year and the Vikes were committed to mutl-Pro Bowler Nirk so Fowler was gonna det back-up $ if he stayed. Teague is not a natural center having been moved there by the Bills and I think Fowler should be an upgrade unless you want to make a case for Teague. Reyes-Anderson- again a clear upgrade as Anderson was inattentive and inconsistent. Reyes was solid at RG last year as Carolina was psyched for the youngster at back-up RG but the team was productive and reyes was solid so no switch was made. Lime Fowler, Reyes was gonna get starter money and as they were going with the youngster it was notthat he sucked last year its that Carolina was not gonna meet Reyes market proce. Gandy-Gandy- He young enough that this adequate starter should at least remain adequate The key for the Bills is for JMac to find adequate back-ups from thr multiple candidates we have. The OL will not be great but should be much improved unless you have good things to say about the 05 OL. QB Losman probably will not be adequate but he might be and I give him at least a 33% if not 40% chance of being a good enough starter. Holcomb remains a solid back-up and I put his chances of being a productive starter for an entire season at 25%. Nall is a wildcard, but even a 10% the combined chances of these three mke it a probabiluity that one of these players will be an adequate starter.

I thought it was Colonel Klink after the accident

The only word I've heard that can be defined as negative was some mild words from Jauron that he was disappointed that more vets were not at the OTAs, but even this was a fairly mild "indictment" which in no way singled out Willis. I think the posters which identify this as almost totally a fan complaint are on target (though probably some media idiot will hop on this bandwagon if their ratings are down or they are bored this summer). Not only is this a voluntary camp (probably part of why the the Jauron complaint was so mild) but I have few problems with WM missing these sessions to attend the more rugged and focused workouts at the U. Not only does the whining about WM show a blatant forgetfulness of the motivation it took to come back from the injury, but it also conveniently overlooks that the results of his workouts last year added 5-10 pounds of muscle mass to his frame. I think this added muscle not only is a clear objective demonstration of his motivation and commitment in the off-season, but I think that it was essential to him being able to take the pounding delivered to him in running into NFL LBs and DL players over 30 times a game. Instead, this improvement simply seemed to lead to complaints that he had lost his breakaway speed (what is his 40 time?) I love the commentary on TSW, ut the continual carping about missing OTAs (and even about his views on baby mommas) really makes TSW posters look really bad and more interested in the NFL as a soap opera rather than football. Believe me, it other Bills would produce at their positions the equivalent of WM being the fastest Bill RB gain 2000 yards then I only wsish they were all this unmotivated.

A photo of the Wall of Fame designation of The 12th Man (that is of course if Cablelady approves).

My understanding of the type of O which Fairchild is likely to install here is based on a model which actually produces the large gains in yardage which you correctly state are essential to running an offense efficiently and successfully. However, if successfully produced these long gains will come by emphasizing getting good RAC from the receivers after the QB dumps off to them with well-timed and well constrcted short passes. None of us will really know the O until after a few games and seeing how it is adjusted and employed against different D personnel and schemes (believe me this better be true or if novices like even the most expert of fans can figure it out, folks paid to do so with a lot more experience will likely figure it and defend against it). However, if the question is can Kelly Holcomb sling the ball long and all over the field all day long, the answer is obviously no from what he has shown in his lengthy career. However, if the question iswhether Holcomb can pick his spots and send it long accurately enough to force opposing Ds to defend against this possibility and thus open up things underneath for more frequesnt dump-offs by a KH which with good RAC turn into long gains, this makes more sense. The WR corps of the Bills actually seems to have the talent and demographics to make this work. Likely #1 WR Evans- Plenty of speed and will likely get a ton of cushion or beat some press coverage to go deep so he can cut off routes for dump-offs or catch a mid-range pass from KH if he is pressed and singled. Likely #2 PP- Flourished when Moulds drew a double and if opponents double Evans to press him shallow but double him if he beats the press with a deep safety then PP gets likely singled. Likely #3 Parrish- More speed and shiftier than Reed who did well teaming with Moulds and Reed as he often saw LB coverage as both receivers needed to be doubled. Likely #4 Reed- He did well playing #3 with two WRs ahead of him drawing attention so if we go 4 wide- Reed may once again recover the collegiate form which got him the Biletnikoff and was hinted at by his rookie perfornance. Former RB has great RAC potential and dump-offs may be his game unless the droppsies return. I still think the chances are that Losman will beat out KH snd there is little reason to expect (though all Bills fans hope he is a star) that Nall will eclipse the number 3 role he had in GB. However, while I like third year guy Losman to be more likely to have great improvement that makes him at least adequate than I think 19 year man Holcomb will suddenly improve to be more than the adequate player he is, the key for the Bills producing something like the results of the high-flying St. L O is going to be our receiver corps having the speed to force opponents into deciding who they are not going to cover well and thw QB figuring that out and hitting the hot WR or McGahee being used as a prime receiving threat which Clements did not do.. JP can star IF he makes the reads right and calms down on his throws. Even Holcomb can star IF he makes the right reads and the OL gives him the time to throw deep occaisionally to keep the cushion for the WRS. Even Nall can star IF he learned a lot sitting behind Favre all these years and if he can translate this knowledge into game play,, I like the prospects for our O and the demographics of the personnel we have accumulated.

Personally yes I can see why you hope or expect this to be true, but rationally, it may be because of my inattentiveness (as I scrawl lengthy posts) or stupidity (the game is interesting because I have little certainty as what will happen next as opposed to some on this board who seem to feel thay have some certainty about what will happen next or who will be good and who sill suck), I just have not seen anyone make an effective or compelling case that the chances of our QBs suceeding is first JP, then with a comfortable gap Holcomb and having the least chance is Nall, The bad news is that while none of these 3 is likely to be successful this year, there is a good probability that one of these three will be good enough to be a consistent starter. Individuals have their favorite (usally for soap opera reasons that they for some reason love or hate one of these players. From my stnadpoint, I'm a Bills fan first and foremost and it would be hard for me to care less which one of these men can do the job as long as one of them steps up. In terms of assessing them individually. I agree that Holcomb was comfortably the most productive of the 3 last year, but I agree with the post above from Tiger that JP has shown us all he can do and while one can reasonably expect him to be a low mistake QB, he clearly is not gonna carry a team to the playoffs on his shoulders. We would need an unlikely resurgence of the D to past levels of productions AND for them to develop a gamebreaking ability they did not have in our 9-7 year when a Bledsoe led O needed the D to carry him and it failed in the final game as Parjer shredded the D and they could not stop a #3 QB. Further we need the ST to maintain its high level of production and they cannot suffer the same mistakes made in that Pitts game as Lindell missed a chipshot and Clements laid a PR on the carpet. While Holcomb I think has shown us what he can do, JPs sorry performance last year coming after good produdction in college and good progress his rookie season which TD foolishly believed merited a starting job actually has a lot more upside and if it works it can come quickly. Nall mau do it, but is simply an X factor as he languished behind Favre. We'll see.

and to some significant extent the CBA also, but collectivism rather than socialism is probably a more accurate description. The team owners have realized (by force actually as they kicked the NFLPA's butt but then realized when the beaten union annouced it was decertifying itself the owners and the NFL product could not survive in a real free market where team owners had to actually compete to buy all players) that they needed to expand their collective to survive. The players are now not only partners but actually the majority partners receiving 59.5% of all receipts. A free market is about individualism. The CBA is not really socialism as social welfare has nothing to do with this. It is however based upon a collective rather than individualistic economic model.

The neat thing about the acquisition of Price is that he provides a lot for the Bills O with the threat of his speed and his rep rather than requiring him to put up #s at his 2002 levls to be effective for us. Obviously he needs to be consistent and produce at a reasonable level or he will lose that rep. However, if there is a reasonable remnant of the world class speed he showed upon entry into the NFL, opposing DCs will need to make tough choices about whether their fastest CB gets Evans or PP, how he will array his nickel of safties to provide deep cover to both sides and even still in 3 WR sets they will have to deal with the speedy and shifty Parrish (or vice versa if Parrish beats out PP). I think the Bills will see a bit of zone coverage this year, particularly as the season wears on and DBs get nicked. I also think showing an ability to gety RAC yardage is going to be critical for the Bills as they will see DBs give them cushion so they do not get burned. Interestingly, if this passing game clicks, the performance which stands to benefit the most will be that of McGahee. If opponents commit to the nickel and 2 deep to deal with out potential speed, he will not face the 8 in the box sets that jammed up the running lanes. As WM strives to get outside he will be using his stiff arm on DBs rather than LBs and you gotta like that match-up.