H2o

How many other QB needy teams did not get Watson, Mahomes, or Jackson? And what if Josh is never viewed as elite, but still gets 2 rings ala Eli Manning? I'd take 2 Lombardi's over HOF stats or league MVP's as a fan any day. Who knows what the trajectories of Mahomes, Watson, and Jackson will be in the years to come? Sometimes players have decent starts to their careers and fizzle out. Not saying that is what will happen with any of the 3, but It happens. Or maybe they end up being middle of the road types as well? Maybe Josh does turn into Brett Favre II? Time will tell. PS - Houston and Portland passed on MJ

They didn't inherit the 2016 team, they inherited the team after the 2016 season. Gilmore chose to leave the offseason they came in and I fully believe he was never going to re-sign here. Robert Woods bolted for LA, the place he wanted to be as well. Marquise Goodwin was the epitome of fragile while here, turning in one solid season, and SF gave him more money than we were willing to offer for sure. They let Zach Brown walk as well, who valued himself more than we did and was out for the biggest contract he could get. Watkins was a self-admitted malcontent nearing the end of his rookie deal. They trade him for Gaines and a 2nd. Dareus, while being a talented player, didn't put forth the effort he had prior to his big contract and had gotten himself in the doghouse with his behind the scenes antics. They cut bait and got what they could from Jax. Glenn, albeit talented as well, had an injury history that was piling up and a situation that unfolded over his foot/ankle injury here that seems eerily similar to the situation he took Cincy through this year if I am not mistaken. He was sent to Cincy in a trade to help position us for our QB. The cap situation was inherited from Whaley with the contracts he handed out. We can also throw the Charles Clay deal in there as another Whaley gem, even though he was here through last season. Fact of the matter is many of the better players we had on the 2016 roster chose to leave on their own in FA in 2017. But at the same time, let's not forget that in 2017 we added both Poyer and Hyde to the roster in FA. Great gets for the Bills. After that first season where they made the playoffs, Beane and McDermott determined somewhere along the line that Tyrod was not the long term answer at QB. That was their main focus heading into their first full offseason together. Tyrod is traded to the Browns, a deal where they were completely fleeced by Beane. They traded Glenn to Cincy to position themselves for said QB as well. Preston Brown? Adios. In this time we also find out Wood is going to be forced to retire because of a neck injury. They get Josh in the draft, as well as the QB of the defense in Edmunds. At this time Richie is starting to come off of the rails, drinking and drugging again. He says he is retiring. They trade Glenn because they are comfortable with Dawkins at LT, lose Incognito because of his life direction at the time, and Wood is forced to retire because of a neck injury. That is 3 new starters along the OL going into 2018, with two of those being really good players we had previously expected to be here. The cap situation and timing of things in some instances hindered them from being able to do but so much. We go 6-10 and Josh gets to make starts because Peterman was absolutely horrendous, still absolutely horrendous like we all knew, and the team starts growing together. In 2019 they hit FA to remake that OL, bring in a couple of solid WR's, and add a couple other pieces because they had the $$$ to maneuver. Draft wise: 2017: Tre White 1st, Dion Dawkins 2nd, Matt Milano 5th (missed on Zay 2nd, Peterman 5th, and Vallejo 6th) 2018: Josh Allen 1st, Tremaine Edmunds 1st, Harrison Phillips 3rd, Taron Johnson 4th, Siran Neal 5th, Levi Wallace UFA (Wyatt Teller 5th got a us a pick from Cleveland, the rest were fodder imo, McCloud and Proehl) 2019: Ed Oliver 1st, Cody Ford 2nd, Devin Singletary 3rd, Dawson Knox 3rd, Jaquan Johnson 6th, Darryl Johnson 7th. Do I agree with every move they have made? Nope. I do think they have done well in the draft, despite how the hindsight crowd wants to portray things. They are drafting a young core, sprinkling in some solid vet additions through FA, and building the team towards sustainable success. Your assessment of the team being full of "non-NFL caliber/JAG/decent players" is being a bit overly dramatic and seemingly from a stance that they haven't done what you claim you would have done. That's your take then so be it. Just point out whom you believe to be what you claim. If the team were as bad off as you would like to make it seem then we wouldn't be 7-3 no matter who we played. And I can respect your take as well my friend. I also agree that the jury is out for everything as a whole. But this regime, team they are building, and everything that has taken place since they have been here seems to have a completely different energy than that of those past. It kind of reminds me of the same feel the Bills had in the late 90's under Wade. We'll see how things go.

Until we beat a team that people expect us to get handled by, a team with a solid record, it will be more of the same. It's quite understandable. I'm hoping our guys come out on Thanksgiving ready to play and put together their most complete game of they year against the Cowboys. First on the agenda though, keeping it going against the Broncos this week.

We have been discussing Buffalo Bills football here looooooong before you ever came along my friend. There has always been quality discussions on TSW. There have always been people on both ends of the spectrum and then the ones who stayed somewhere in between. You, on the other hand, are contradicting yourself. You say there should be a Kool Aid forum that you would be glad to never visit, but then make your plea for a forum of "like minded" people where you would gladly spend your time. So are you're saying that the drinkers should have their own place and then you would gladly relegate yourself to "The Pit of Misery", since we're talking about people "like minded" as yourself and all. Only one thing to say to that.

What is not delusion is the fact that Harbaugh is one of the best coaches in the game, a SB winning coach at that, who's teams have been well out in front of the Bills overall for quite some time. Ozzie Newsome is not only one of the best TE's in NFL history, but also one of the best GM's the league has ever seen at talent evaluation. They also had Greg Roman on their staff at the time of drafting Jackson and made him the OC because they knew HIS SYSTEM would maximize Lamar's talent. Roman's success with these types of QB's is well documented along his NFL tenures. Here you have a 1st time GM and a 1st time HC who came in, got their team to the playoffs, had to tear it all down basically (aided by the Eric Wood retirement and Incognito derailment), got us out of cap hell, got whom they believe is their Franchise QB, have basically remade the whole roster in 3 years, and now are the figureheads of a 7-3 team in 2019(surpassing the 2018 win total in just 10 games). Yes, you have to sculpt things around the talent you have. I think they are doing that as best they can as you can see with the constant moving and shifting of the pieces on the field. At the same time they know the type of players they are looking for and that is whom they will go after. You look for guys who fit the system, but they are also looking for guys whom are talented at that because that's what you need for perpetual success in the NFL. I like Lamar, that's why I started this thread. I think Harbaugh is an excellent coach. But going into vain ramblings about a HC and GM who have brought this team more success in the last 3 years overall than we had seen the previous 16, outside the year we had a chance if an egg had not been laid by Bledsoe against the Steelers 3rd string defense, is grasping for straws at best.

He's done so at least twice this year, both against the Dolphins of course so they don't count probably. He also got the W against the Jags last year in that brawl of a game.

Basic human decency tells a man not to punch a woman in the face. He obviously is lacking in that area regardless of his upbringing.

No doubt. It was not written by him, AB. I'm sure everyone here has seen an example of his communication skills? He should be tried for crimes against the English language.

Brady will s*ck Satan's d*** just to get one more ring if he has to. No surprise here. I don't think Kraft brings him back after his "different strokes for different folks" little quip. The guy is a douche, he's mentally unstable, and he's only sorry because he sees them $$$ getting flushed down the toilet on a daily basis.

Aaaaaaand this is the post I was scrolling down to find. GreggTX, all things Bills hater, never fails to come up clutch.

The original post was not based on a single game or performance, but on looking at the season as a whole with what he has been doing. This has also been discussed at other points in time, on this board, with many people making the same asinine posts claiming that Josh hasn't shown improvement. Or they suggest that we, our FO and coaching staff, need to be in search of a new QB this offseason. Many of the things he gets knocked for were all things that he again proved he could do on Sunday, things he has improved upon from last year to this one. He was calm in the pocket, went to his 2nd and 3rd read, put a lot of passes right on the money so the WR could get YAC, beat the blitz on a number of occasions getting the ball out to the CORRECT hot read, used his legs when the opportunity presented itself, and he didn't throw an INT for the 5th straight game. He has completely flipped his TD/INT ratio the last 6 weeks. If he had not had this type of performance ALL of the Nancy's, not just the ones only in this thread, would have been out in full force even if we won under different circumstances. NO ONE is saying he has arrived and is now a top tier, elite QB. But if you continue to deny that he hasn't shown improvement from rookie year until now, then it is fairly obvious you are either willfully oblivious or have an agenda. PS - Darnold and the Jets were one of the teams the Dolphins had beaten during their 2 game winning streak prior to Sunday.

I am thinking we may still see a rotation here with Ford and now Bates. Bates showed fairly well in the preseason no matter where they seemed to put him. I think they have faith in the young man. He hasn't been active because it wasn't deemed necessary until now.

You knew Lee wasn't out there much because of our 2nd lowest total in penalties this year.

I've already answered a similar post to this.

Pretty sure @GunnerBill has mentioned this previously as well as to why he is encouraged by Allen's overall play this year.

This falls directly in line with what I felt the other day after hearing and watching the situation unfold. Posted this on Sunday morning.

Josh gets the Buffalo stigma. There always has to be some extenuating circumstance that explains the anomaly of his god day or they want to point out what happened at previous points to rationalize why it shouldn't be taken into account. Just the way it is for now.

Let me guess, Florio @ PFT?

Yes, he does still lock onto a single guy and take off if he's not open. He does still also seem to not go through progressions at times. Josh has done these same things. I really think the NFL is seeing the next great crop of QB's rising who will carry the game on after the Brady, Brees, Rodgers, and Rivers of the NFL are gone. Even with that, the things we are seeing from Jackson, the young man is still more successful than I thought he would be. I am man enough to admit that. Now he may get hammered by someone one day and it changes the trajectory of his career. Who knows? Right now though, even if you are stopping him throwing the ball, he can light you up to the tune of 150 and 2 or 3 TD's with his legs. He is a true dual threat unlike anyone I have ever seen outside of Michael Vick.

Can't stand those effin dorks

I don't know about Bi-Polar, but there are NUMEROUS Bills-polar around here.

Truth on the coaching. Jeff Fisher, that's all you have to say. It is a West Coast type of system that Philly runs, but there are a lot of RPO concepts within that. It's not the same RPO that Roman runs by any means, but a lot of the reads and route concepts are still the same without the QB keeping the ball anywhere near as much in Philly. Like you said, tailor the game to the QB's strengths. A lot of times it is what makes or breaks the career path of many of these young QB's.

Another "system QB" to look at, who's quite a bit different on the athletic pendulum of it all, is Nick Foles. Great in the RPO with Philly early in his career, wildly inconsistent everywhere else, returns to Philly under the same system, and lights it up on the way to a SB victory over the Pats after a Carson Wentz injury. He then looks like he is heading in the same direction again before being derailed by an Alshon Jeffrey drop.

He's is turning out to be the FA gem of the 2019 offseason. No one expected this.