H2o

Whaley was still here then up until after the draft. They couldn't resign all of those guys for the money they got elsewhere. We still had Sammy and Marcel on the roster going into the 2017 season as well. If I'm not mistaken we only had like 12-14 mill left in cap at the beginning of that year. Sammy was moved after being showcased in the 3rd preseason game and Marcel later in the year. The next year we were right up against it cap wise. The money situation is completely different now and Beane has already shown that he takes care of our own. I'm not worried about us not re-signing our core players now because I trust they will manage things correctly.

Please stop posting this mess. God, when are YOU PEOPLE going to realize we could have had Mahomes, Watson, or Jackson already?!?!?!?

The sad thing is all of their fans and the organization will defend it. I have never seen a more classless group in my entire life. I hope a sinkhole opens up swallowing Gillette Stadium.

I hope to God that one of them or anyone in the general vicinity was mic'd up. That could clear the whole thing up real quick. And if Garrett is lying he should get a 2 season ban for even suggesting such a thing as well as beating the man over the head with his own helmet. If Mason Rudolph is guilty then he should get a season ban.

I call BS. Garrett is just trying to find a way to reduce his sentence or flip the narrative. The reason Garrett did what he did was because Rudolph tried to pull his helmet off first. I think Rudolph is to shoulder some of the blame here and should have gotten at least a one game suspension. But trying to invoke the race card here is rather cowardly imo.

Dan Snyder and Bruce Allen are the biggest hindrance to anything "good" ever being in Washington.

Sunday is gonna be...

There are a few around here if you haven't noticed and they all stick together.

Yeah, but the article has Mahomes, Watson, and Jackson all ranked higher than him. This team, coaching staff, and FO sucks.

And if we were a team full of "non-NFL caliber/JAG/decent players" as SoTier would like us all to believe then our record would not be 7-3 no matter whom we've played. It would probably be the exact opposite at this point. Then we'd all be talking who's getting fired, draft prospect, and 2020 FA.

Congrats Dion. May your family abound with health, love, and prosperity.

Hope he's not dumb enough to take the Redskins job. That could be a career killer.

Yes, his OL is putrid. It reminds me of Andrew Luck's OL his first few years in the league.

Idk Gunner, he was pretty bad against the Jags earlier this season also even though they won the game 13-12. The game against Carolina he was pretty meh as well in a loss. I do like Watson though and think he is definitely one of the better young QB's as well. Every QB, young and vet, will have bad games at some point. You just hope that the number of good greatly outnumber the bad.

Dear God, not like this I hope.....

I was thinking the same thing.

And if Allen is a solid QB who gets a ring/rings while not having Mahomes' stats, but Mahomes never gets one despite the coulda, shoulda, woulda's then what? He may just be Dan Marino in the end. Still a brilliant career, but sometimes stats aren't everything.

How many other QB needy teams did not get Watson, Mahomes, or Jackson? And what if Josh is never viewed as elite, but still gets 2 rings ala Eli Manning? I'd take 2 Lombardi's over HOF stats or league MVP's as a fan any day. Who knows what the trajectories of Mahomes, Watson, and Jackson will be in the years to come? Sometimes players have decent starts to their careers and fizzle out. Not saying that is what will happen with any of the 3, but It happens. Or maybe they end up being middle of the road types as well? Maybe Josh does turn into Brett Favre II? Time will tell. PS - Houston and Portland passed on MJ

They didn't inherit the 2016 team, they inherited the team after the 2016 season. Gilmore chose to leave the offseason they came in and I fully believe he was never going to re-sign here. Robert Woods bolted for LA, the place he wanted to be as well. Marquise Goodwin was the epitome of fragile while here, turning in one solid season, and SF gave him more money than we were willing to offer for sure. They let Zach Brown walk as well, who valued himself more than we did and was out for the biggest contract he could get. Watkins was a self-admitted malcontent nearing the end of his rookie deal. They trade him for Gaines and a 2nd. Dareus, while being a talented player, didn't put forth the effort he had prior to his big contract and had gotten himself in the doghouse with his behind the scenes antics. They cut bait and got what they could from Jax. Glenn, albeit talented as well, had an injury history that was piling up and a situation that unfolded over his foot/ankle injury here that seems eerily similar to the situation he took Cincy through this year if I am not mistaken. He was sent to Cincy in a trade to help position us for our QB. The cap situation was inherited from Whaley with the contracts he handed out. We can also throw the Charles Clay deal in there as another Whaley gem, even though he was here through last season. Fact of the matter is many of the better players we had on the 2016 roster chose to leave on their own in FA in 2017. But at the same time, let's not forget that in 2017 we added both Poyer and Hyde to the roster in FA. Great gets for the Bills. After that first season where they made the playoffs, Beane and McDermott determined somewhere along the line that Tyrod was not the long term answer at QB. That was their main focus heading into their first full offseason together. Tyrod is traded to the Browns, a deal where they were completely fleeced by Beane. They traded Glenn to Cincy to position themselves for said QB as well. Preston Brown? Adios. In this time we also find out Wood is going to be forced to retire because of a neck injury. They get Josh in the draft, as well as the QB of the defense in Edmunds. At this time Richie is starting to come off of the rails, drinking and drugging again. He says he is retiring. They trade Glenn because they are comfortable with Dawkins at LT, lose Incognito because of his life direction at the time, and Wood is forced to retire because of a neck injury. That is 3 new starters along the OL going into 2018, with two of those being really good players we had previously expected to be here. The cap situation and timing of things in some instances hindered them from being able to do but so much. We go 6-10 and Josh gets to make starts because Peterman was absolutely horrendous, still absolutely horrendous like we all knew, and the team starts growing together. In 2019 they hit FA to remake that OL, bring in a couple of solid WR's, and add a couple other pieces because they had the $$$ to maneuver. Draft wise: 2017: Tre White 1st, Dion Dawkins 2nd, Matt Milano 5th (missed on Zay 2nd, Peterman 5th, and Vallejo 6th) 2018: Josh Allen 1st, Tremaine Edmunds 1st, Harrison Phillips 3rd, Taron Johnson 4th, Siran Neal 5th, Levi Wallace UFA (Wyatt Teller 5th got a us a pick from Cleveland, the rest were fodder imo, McCloud and Proehl) 2019: Ed Oliver 1st, Cody Ford 2nd, Devin Singletary 3rd, Dawson Knox 3rd, Jaquan Johnson 6th, Darryl Johnson 7th. Do I agree with every move they have made? Nope. I do think they have done well in the draft, despite how the hindsight crowd wants to portray things. They are drafting a young core, sprinkling in some solid vet additions through FA, and building the team towards sustainable success. Your assessment of the team being full of "non-NFL caliber/JAG/decent players" is being a bit overly dramatic and seemingly from a stance that they haven't done what you claim you would have done. That's your take then so be it. Just point out whom you believe to be what you claim. If the team were as bad off as you would like to make it seem then we wouldn't be 7-3 no matter who we played. And I can respect your take as well my friend. I also agree that the jury is out for everything as a whole. But this regime, team they are building, and everything that has taken place since they have been here seems to have a completely different energy than that of those past. It kind of reminds me of the same feel the Bills had in the late 90's under Wade. We'll see how things go.

Until we beat a team that people expect us to get handled by, a team with a solid record, it will be more of the same. It's quite understandable. I'm hoping our guys come out on Thanksgiving ready to play and put together their most complete game of they year against the Cowboys. First on the agenda though, keeping it going against the Broncos this week.

We have been discussing Buffalo Bills football here looooooong before you ever came along my friend. There has always been quality discussions on TSW. There have always been people on both ends of the spectrum and then the ones who stayed somewhere in between. You, on the other hand, are contradicting yourself. You say there should be a Kool Aid forum that you would be glad to never visit, but then make your plea for a forum of "like minded" people where you would gladly spend your time. So are you're saying that the drinkers should have their own place and then you would gladly relegate yourself to "The Pit of Misery", since we're talking about people "like minded" as yourself and all. Only one thing to say to that.

What is not delusion is the fact that Harbaugh is one of the best coaches in the game, a SB winning coach at that, who's teams have been well out in front of the Bills overall for quite some time. Ozzie Newsome is not only one of the best TE's in NFL history, but also one of the best GM's the league has ever seen at talent evaluation. They also had Greg Roman on their staff at the time of drafting Jackson and made him the OC because they knew HIS SYSTEM would maximize Lamar's talent. Roman's success with these types of QB's is well documented along his NFL tenures. Here you have a 1st time GM and a 1st time HC who came in, got their team to the playoffs, had to tear it all down basically (aided by the Eric Wood retirement and Incognito derailment), got us out of cap hell, got whom they believe is their Franchise QB, have basically remade the whole roster in 3 years, and now are the figureheads of a 7-3 team in 2019(surpassing the 2018 win total in just 10 games). Yes, you have to sculpt things around the talent you have. I think they are doing that as best they can as you can see with the constant moving and shifting of the pieces on the field. At the same time they know the type of players they are looking for and that is whom they will go after. You look for guys who fit the system, but they are also looking for guys whom are talented at that because that's what you need for perpetual success in the NFL. I like Lamar, that's why I started this thread. I think Harbaugh is an excellent coach. But going into vain ramblings about a HC and GM who have brought this team more success in the last 3 years overall than we had seen the previous 16, outside the year we had a chance if an egg had not been laid by Bledsoe against the Steelers 3rd string defense, is grasping for straws at best.