McD

A good D can cover up a LOT of mistakes by the O, and even make statistically avg QB's like Cutler and Sanchez seem like "franchise" QB's to some.

You must be about 30... The Bills just came off of back to back 2-14 seasons. We needed EVERYTHING! Bruce was needed badly and helped lay the defensive foundation we needed. But, he alone wasn't taking us anywhere. If Kelly would have signed in '83-'84, HE would have laid the foundation first, but he too wouldn't have taken us anywhere without the rest of the pieces. Again... we need balance, and an upgrade of the D is more important than on O. I still got it!

LOL!!!!! Are you serious!?!?! Ok... this is a no **** comment you made, BUT you forget to mention we also picked up Talley, Reed, Tasker, Hull... hell, half of our damned SB teams during the years immediately preceding and following Kelly. He was a "piece" a HUGE piece, but damn he wasn't everything. Offensive starters: QB Jim Kelly 1986 RB Thurman Thomas 1988 FB Jamie Mueller 1987 WR James Lofton 1990 WR Andre Reed 1985 TE Keith McKeller 1987 LT Will Wolford 1986 LG Jim Ritcher 1980 C Kent Hull 1986 RG John H. Davis 1987 RT Howard Ballard 1987 Defensive Starters: LDE Leon Seals 1987 NT Jeff Wright 1988 RDE Bruce Smith 1985 LOLB Cornelius Bennett 1987 LILB Shane Conlan 1987 RILB Ray Bentley 198? RILB Carlton Bailey 1988 ROLB Darryl Talley 1983 LCB Kirby Jackson 1987 LCB James E. Williams 1990 RCB Nate Odomes 1987 SS Leonard Smith 1989/90? FS John Hagy 1988 FS Mark Kelso 1985 Special Teams Starters: K Scott Norwood 198? P Rick Tuten 198? PR Al Edwards 1990 KR Don Smith 1987 This team wasn't "looking" for just a QB and then they were on their way... the whole damned team was just about overhauled during this span. I love how you all just think I don't believe the QB position is vital, lol...

bull **** dude... you so lost the point of the entire thread. We DONT need a QB right now. We need a damn D! Tell me that we don't... I'm all ears on why we need a QB at #3 (esp since there is no Andrew Luck)? And I've said it before... I'm not sure if there's an amazing D player at #3, but moreso than a QB. I'd LOVE to trade down some and get even MORE players, but that prob wont happen. Again.. If we can trade back to #10 and get a Newton/Mallett/Gabbert type (if they're sold on him), AND get a few extra picks for the D I'm all for it. We both know a QB in this years draft doesn't help us for another 3 years Unless FItz gets hurt and he's thrust into the line-up, but even then he'll have to throw for 4,000 yds to keep up with all of the points the D will continue to give up.... Yay!! Good for you (clap, clap, clap!) Now go look at the defenses those teams had... top 10 most of them? You betcha. Good spin though.

No, that's not quite true. While I'll agree it's the most important single position. It's not that there are a TON of picks on QB's, but it does mean that the % of QB's taken in the first round have been busts. Lol, I wasn't replying to a question... you posted goofy faces as a response.

Guess I have to spell it out... there are a shitload of fist round QB busts littering the NFL, and way more of them than D linemen especially within the top 10 busts of all time.

Good article on Gabbert IF you're interested. Going by need and "worthiness of a #3 overall pick", I'd go Fairly first, then Dareus... http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Why-all-the-Blaine-Gabbert-hype.html

This article is pretty interesting... these are the top 10 teams to never win a SB. Weird thing... all but 1 had the top rated Offense in the league, but it did have the #2 Offense and the #1 Defense (NFL stats, not combined with AFL stats)... that was the '68 Colts who were upset in SB 3 by the NY Jets #2 O and #4 D that year. FWIW...our beloved 1990 Bills are #10. Again, you'll see these teams very well balanced (no argument there). http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Articles/11_1190_The_almost-greatest_teams.html

There are what they are my friend... fact is, keep looking at these lists... they have a very common theme...

Here's some articles for you.... http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/galleries/nfls_biggest_draft_busts/nfls_biggest_draft_busts.html http://bleacherreport.com/articles/389546-the-nfls-10-biggest-draft-busts http://www.xtrapointfootball.com/20100321280/2010-archives/march/nfl-draft-busts-top-50.html http://www.nfl.com/news/story?confirm=true&id=09000d5d817ff891&template=with-video-with-comments http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft08/news/story?id=3325687 These lists are EVERYWHERE... OMG too damned easy.

Lets pretend those teams didn't have great defenses. And how is Sanchez and Cutler franchise QB's if Fitz isn't? Fitz has better stats than Sanchez and equal to Cutler... and he did it with NO real preseason prep with the rest of the starters and he didn't play in 3 or 4 games. You have no clue to what you're talking about. This is comical... This isn't a slight, but no ****. But lets also look at our beloved Bills. We upgraded our QB play (maybe not dramatically, but it was an upgrade), however we did NOT improve our record. I know we need balance... people here keep thinking I don't value QB play.. THEY'RE WRONG! I do value it, BUT we need balance too. Fitz works for now, but we don't have adequate D play. WE need playmakers on both sides of the ball, but we have so very few on D. Draft D and more D. This is the essence of my post! You don't want to go here do you? You do realize that a team will carry WAY more D lineman/front 7 guys than they will QB's right? Therefore, there will be WAY more D lineman/front 7 guys drafted and theoretically have more players counted as BUSTS. You aren't that ignorant. But... go ahead and do some research... find the biggest BUSTS of all time. You'll find a good mix of players and positions, but if there were 5 QB's and 5 D Line guys, then the %'s would tell the real tale as probably twice as many D line guys are selected than QB's. I've seen many of these "lists" the past few days and they are littered with QB's. Again, because you seem to have lost any clue to what my original argument was... we have a QB... Andrew Luck isn't there... we prob wont find a trade partner, and no other QB should be taken at #3... draft the hell out of D, we have holes everywhere on D... fill them, and not with bondo patches, but with real no **** steel. Do it right OBD.

On the bolded font above... what do you mean "top 15"?

Let's go back to 1998 with the first round QB's... since Manning is still playing, seems to be a good year. 1998 Peyton Manning (franchise QB, made the playoffs, but ousted by a team with a great D) 1998 Ryan Leaf (EPIC BUST) 1999 Tim Couch (BUST, out of the league) 1999 Donovan McNabb (no playoffs) 1999 Akili Smith (BUST, out of the league) 1999 Duante Culpepper (out of the league) 1999 Cade McNown (BUST, out of the league) 2000 Chad Pennington (out of the league) 2001 Michael Vick (franchise QB to some... made the playoffs, but ousted by a team with a great D) 2002 David Carr (BUST, no playoffs) 2002 Joey Harrington (Taken #3 overall, BUST, out of the league) 2002 Patrick Ramsey (BUST, out of the league) 2003 Carson Palmer (was decent, no playoffs) 2003 Byron Leftwich (so-so, couldn't hang on with Jags... made playoffs as current back-up to Rothlisraper) 2003 Kyle Boller (career back-up, no playoffs) 2003 Rex Grossman (so-so, no playoffs) 2004 Eli Manning (franchise to some, no playoffs) 2004 Philip Rivers (franchise QB to most, no playoffs) 2004 Ben Roethlisraper (franchise to most, in playoffs) 2004 JP Loserman (BUST, but back-up in Seattle, made playoffs, but ousted by a team with a great D) 2005 Alex Smith (eh... no playoffs) 2005 Aaron Rodgers (franchise to some/most, still in playoffs) 2005 Jason Cambell (decent QB, no playoffs) 2006 Vince Young (decent QB, no playoffs) 2006 Matt Leinart (BUST, out of league) 2006 Jay Cutler (good/decent QB, still in playoffs) 2007 Jamarcus Russell (BUST, out of league) 2007 Brady Quinn (eh.. pretty much a bust, no playoffs) 2008 Matt Ryan (good QB, should be a franchise QB someday, made playoffs, but ousted by a team with a great D) 2008 Joe Flacco (good QB, could be a franchise QB someday, made playoffs, but ousted by a team with a great D) 2009 Matthew Stafford (decent QB, too early on him, no playoffs) 2009 Mark Sanchez (good/decent QB, still in playoffs) 2009 Josh Freeman (decent QB, no playoffs) 2010 Sam Bradford (good QB, no playoffs) 2010 Tim Tebow (no real playing time yet, no playoffs) So... there have been 35 1st round QB's taken and the 4 still remaining are split with two franchise/probable franchise QB's and two good/solid QB's. There are QB's up there with way better #'s, but yet these 4 remain... why??? Oh yeah, because they have 4 of the BEST DEFENSES in the damned league! Seems like you can have ALL sorts of "first round QB's", but only those with great D's seem to survive... Hello? Bueller?

Please... dont forget to add all the first round QB's that did NOT lead their team to the playoffs, or that are even in the league anymore...

Really??? This is FACT?!?! You have what to back your claim? Manning already had his ass handed to him by the Jets, but you'll ignopre that right? Here's the thing... We HAVE a QB! And Andrew Luck isn't there... Will any of you listen to this?? If... IF the Bills can trade down, pick up additional picks AND get Newton, Mallett, etc AND then still get the D help... go for it! BUT... again, WE HAVE FITZ for now... WE SUCK STOPPING ANYONE. Are you all going to keep on imagining us not getting our ass handed to us in run D week in and week out??? QB isn't our immediate concern. Hell I wont say Bob Matthews is a fiootball genius, but even HE sees it... http://www.democratandchronicle.com/article/20110118/SPORTS0101/101180316/tbd Lol... some of you are too damned funny... So... lets grab a guy that should be drafted in the middle of the first to maybe the middle of the second round at #3 overall, JUST because you all think our biggest need is at QB. Tom Donahoe... is that you... DJ maybe?

Yes... another person that "gets it". I honestly think the Jets have done a good job bringing Sanchez along, but he's not a franchise QB... yet. He has the intangibles, but he's got to put it all together. Of course he has a tremendous supporting (actually he's more supporting than they are but I digress) cast, and that's what makes them as successful as they are...

Ok just checked the stats on the '09 playoffs. Again, all I see is the same. Sanchez beat a decent 6th ranked Cincy D 10-7 and he was solid at 12/15 182 1 TD 0 INT, But again... guess what? The Jets D was #1 last year (keep that in mind the rest of the way please). Then "he" beat a 11th ranked Chargers D 11-7 (barn burners these games!) where he threw for a VERY modest 12/23 100 yds with 1 TD and 1 INT. However the Jets couldn't hang onto a 17-13 halftime lead on the road in Indy and the battle between the two "franchise QB's" was lost by Sanchez. That was his chance to "LEAD" his team as a franchise guy against a weaker D (actually Indy was ranked 8th), but he failed... now, he was a rook and he had no right to go into Indy and expect to win so I dont hold that against him. They lost to a VERY playoff seasoned Indy team with one of the "true" franchise QB's. Here's what I know about Sanchez... he's a decent QB. Nothing more nothing less. He will (unfortunately) get better, but he's not a franchise QB yet, so to label him one now and think "he's" taking the Jets to the promised land is ludicrous. the Jets mgith get there (wouldn't surprise me at all if they do), but guess what's going to get them there??? Yep, their running game and their D.

So again, I ask WHERE I said **** about a first round QB?? Now go do your homework and tell me how many BUSTS there have been at QB? If Luck was there, I'd say take him, but he's not. Sorry... Newton, nor Mallett are worth the #3. And I suppose none of the teams that are in have great Defenses? Hmmm... seems to be my point huh? And I bet NONE of the teams still alive have players on D that were taken in the first round. You're right... we should just try UDFA players or "reaches" for our trenches. So far the playoff teams like the Jets have only GASHED us for 250+ yds a game this year on the ground. You all aren't stupid. You wont win ANYTHING with a crappy run D. Cutler has stats equal to Fitz, so does Sanchez, but YOU are the one arbitrily using the "franchise" tag. See, you think that because a guy was drafted in the first round and has potential IS a franchise QB... so... where's Ryan Leaf these days? Jamarcus Russell? Oh... yeah.... And, really all you did was point out the top 4 of 9 defenses that are still playing. See I provide stats to back what I say. You don't/can't. Of your remaining "franchise QB's" Rodgers was ranked 3rd (good job!), Roethlisraper ranked #5 (way to go!), Cutler ranked #16... ummm "franchise"? And then Sanchez ranked 27th... !@#$ing OUCH!! Evidently you can have the middle of the pack and damn near last rated QB on your team and STILL be deep into the playoffs... GRANTED you have a Top ranked D... Thank you, I'll be here all week. Go check the QB stats... Fitz is better, or at least equivilent to both Sanchez AND Cutler. So.... according to your logic Fitz IS our franchise QB. And if that's the case, why draft a QB at all??

Not to get nit picky (and I think Sanchez is a solid QB), but this again helps prove my point (at least for '10, didn't look up '09 playoffs), he played pretty well against two avg to weak defenses. While Manning and Brady fell to a VASTLY superior D. This , even as an isolated scenario, shows a weaker QB with a better D can and does beat the supposed "franchise QB's with much weaker D's. Again... tell me where I said **** about first round anything. there are a TON of first round QB busts. Way to come out of hiding... throwing a weak jab then running back to the bushes, lol... you're too much. Lol... I NEVER said I hated Sanchez.. go find that nugget and bring it back to me. I state the facts, and that facts are Sanchez is a solid QB, BUT his D is more of a reason than his play for the Jets success. Keep up the putting words in my mouth though, it's awesome!! Hopefully 7!

Sanchez has had mixed results against the remaining teams in the playoffs. He's played them all, and is 1-2 against them. his only win was a 22-17 win against the 2nd rated Defense of the Pittsburgh Steelers, where he was 19/29 and threw for 170 yds 0 TD's 0 INT's. Pretty "Edwardsesque" if you ask me, and they won with a KO return for a TD and a Safety. That's 9 of the 22 pts. He lost to the 9th Defensive rated Chicago Bears 38-34 (there's your shootout that he couldn't win) going 24/37 and 7 pts there came from an INT (damn, that D is pretty important isn't it?), but he did have a respectable 269 yd 1 TD 1 INT outing. Then there was the game against the 5th rated Defense of the GB Packers, where they got beat 9-0, where he was 16/38 for 256 yds 0TD's and 2 INT's... OUCH! Rodgers wan't much better mind you... throwing for 16/38 170 yds 0TD's and 0 INT's, but to his defense he was playing the 3RD RANKED D! How'd we get to talking about Sanchez anyway???

See the queries above. I'm not saying he didn't win games, but ask your self this... did his great D not keep him in the position to "win" the game for his team? Did his O-line not do it's job to give him time to throw and open holes for his run game?

Correct! Lol... BUT the apologists on here will say HE was the savior IF the Jets win the SB. They will say "SEE McD, you HAVE to have a 1st round QB to win"! Lol... OK then...

Not sure if anyone is saying Sanchez sucks. But the numbers don't lie. He's good... solid, and still yooung, so he should continue to get better, but to think he's "carrying" this team is a fantasy. I'm not saying that is your argument, but a lot of posters on here seems to not see how good Sanchez has it in NY. NOTHING helps a young QB than a great running game behind a premier O-line, AND a great D to help cover your mistakes. The highlighted part above is more of a "he IS a 1st rd QB, he better be able to make those throws". Hell anyone playing QB past HS better be able to make those throws.

I wont argue that at all. My scenario is "ideal" to what I think we need. Some mean SOB's on the DL/LB that can stop the 200 yd rushing games against us, AND get to the QB.