McD

Well stick around, I'm sure some will rub off on you eventaully with all of the scintillating posters we have here.

Lol... so NOW you see that we wasted 20 pages for something you already knew, but just kept fighting about?!?!? Lol! OK! This thread evolved, but it still focuses on defense, and the need for us to go draft a LOT of defense. Really I'm defending and standing my ground, nobody has yet to tell me we shouldn't draft D. So if you're the first let me hear why? I'm sure you have a good reason... LOL @ WSS! Crazy huh?

Check out the bolded Thanks for knocking any credibility you had out of the water. Thanks for playing.

What question is that? Here's mine again, because you haven't answered it... we're ALL waiting. FYI... the question you HAVE NOT answered is #3. 1. If a team scores 32 points a game will they ALWAYS win? _NO__ CORRECT!!! +1! 2. If a team doesn't allow a single point in a game will they EVER LOSE? ____________ I know this is tough, but just read carefully. Key here is WILL THEY EVER LOSE??? We know ties exist man. Right on man, now you're getting it!

Since you couldn't possibly find all of the statistics that would show a true #1 O vs true #1 D outside of the SB, that's where I came up with the 3 games (ironically, and to provide STATS to MY argument, the D kicked ass). That part is pretty simple man. Of course I seem to be the only one generating said statistics, so what is it you want me to go back on?? Nothing have proven me wrong, although I have had good debates on it. You... lol, you wont even answer a question like a man, and you're giving me ****, lol... C'mon man!

Major GPA: 4.00 Cumulative Undergraduate GPA: 3.96 Not that it matters, but there you have it man... thanks! BTW...You still haven't manned up on that answer! Dude...WTF are you talking about? Who's talking about shutouts in a SB?? Again, you're proving yourself unworthy of discussion. Go ahead and find me talking about SB's in my response.

That's a LOT of points. Not sure if there's been that many scored in the history of the league, so I assume this is really just a silly unfounded post. But, there's been many shutouts (see, those ACTUALLY happen!). I have no issue with TEAM play, and a nice healthy balance would be great (balance being top of the league balance, not being #24 and #25). Going D, D and more D (in FA and the draft), will slow teams down, flip the field many, MANY more times than we did the past few seasons, and not make us play from behind (therefore making us predictable and one dimensional on O). Is this too realistic an argument for you?

YES!!!! You got it halfway right! Way to go!!! now... you still tried to go around the question, so one more time for you... Riddle me this... if a team scores 32 points a game will they ALWAYS win? _NO__ CORRECT!!! +1! Now this... if a team doesn't allow a single point in a game will they EVER LOSE? ____________ I know this is tough, but just read carefully. Key here is WILL THEY EVER LOSE??? We know ties exist man. I'll bite on that. No major issues to that post, well thought out and substantiated. Thanks! Now... I still don't buy into Bradshaw that much. I'll look into his #'s compared to others of his generation. The thing that I will say is this... If Kelly has the Era's greatest D, he'd have 4 rings of his own.

Lol... well, lets see... I'm posting as much as you are, and I'm also working on a paper. This is my break every few minutes. I've still put more critical thought and effort in defending my post, while I mostly get garbage in return. All good though, this board is for entertainment purposes only. Group behavior... interesting subject.

Nice attempt at going AROUND a question, but it's not that easy... you see AGAIN you refuse to follow directions. Please reread and answer accordingly... I'll BOLD the items you evidently tried to go around so everyone can see it. Riddle me this... if a team scores 32 points a game will they ALWAYS win? ___________ Now this... if a team doesn't allow a single point in a game will they EVER lose? ____________ There's still only "yes" and "no" (or a direvitive thereof) as possible answers. Isn't that a defensive play BTW...??? Damn, those D's are good!

Anyway... this isn't about Bradshaw (nice job getting away from answering the simplest of questions though, lol).

Read bolded. You all talk about absolutes... I dontr believe in them, BUT to amuse you I added some... All I ask is you answer the question with two words... (hint: yes & no are your two choices) Riddle me this... if a team scores 32 points a game will they ALWAYS win? ___________ Now this... if a team doesn't allow a single point in a game will they EVER lose? ____________ Probably a handful live. Why...? Are his incompletions somehow better in person?

Bradshaw had a defense LOADED with HoF defensive players and Offensive weapons. When you have an O with 2 HoF WR's a HoF RB and a HoF Center to anchor the line... damn, you need to be better that EVERYONE in your Era. Then lets look at the other side of the ball shall we... Joe Greene, Jack Ham, Jack Lambert Mel Blount... nice core of D there... you think he played "behind in many games"? Bradshaw to his credit had two good SB appearances, but two aweful ones to boot. And the road he took to get there he put up massive numbers like 86 yds 0 TD's and 1 Int. I think he averaged about 150 yds 1.5 TD and 2.5 Int's in the games just to get TO the SB... Yep, he sure LED them there... lol. Thank you for your post to add to the ridiculousness, your opinion I don't mind, but you're trying to pass that info on as fact. I'm going fact on Bradshaw, but I can see your claims on rules changes, but I'll still respectfully refute his greatness. Bradshaw rode the coattails of those teams, plain and simple. The man had mediocre regular season numbers and only two good (very good) post season games... his last two SB's. Now any given Sunday a guy or team can flourish, but Bradshaw never LED his team to those games on his arm or skills. That D, those two WR's the O-line, and running game he had took them there... Bradshaw MANAGED hose games far more than he LED them.

Right, but we'll go for him in the 2nd if this team stays the course....

Damn, that is a SAD stat... guess we need more D!!!

Uh oh... we're reaching now aren't we? Lol... Coulda, woulda, shoulda, eh man? All of a sudden it's circumstantial...? "well if X woulda done this different, and Z did this, THEN THAT might have happened. Look suck it up. The Bills lost the '90 game, be a man and admit it. We lost, we got beat. Check Bradshaw's "Hof" stats... the ONLY reason he's there is because he was surrounded by greatness. As I pointed oout both Losman and Edwards have better ratings than Bradshaw. He's no true HoF'er, he BARELY had a 50% completion %. So, if you're sayinbg he IS a HoF'er then you should have NO issues with Fitz... right? So this "anaomoly" happened only 3 times... it doesn't give you much to go on... OK... no big deal, BUT it does show that D wins. Trust you me... if it were the other way around and the stats favored you, you'd be jumping up and down in your dirty skivvies showing these "worthless" stats. Lol... you're fading fast... Guess I have to post this again... since most of you like to deal with absolutes. Riddle me this... if a team scores 32 points a game will they ALWAYS win? Now this... if a team doesn't allow a single point in a game will they EVER lose? Jeopardy tune STILL playing in background...

Just like the accident on the freeway, most people looking aren't paying attention to the road. Kind of like a LOT of people on this thread. Pay attention and keep your eyes where they should be so you can concentrate and think logically. No response to the straight up head to head #1 D vs #1 O?? It's pretty clear, however you ignore it, lol... yep that's the way to do it!

I think they should strive for both, BUT #1 defense has beaten those #1 offenses every time they've played. Everyone likes to just dismiss that though, so all good. You make a "case" for Montana vs the Fish in '84. Fair enough, but you and I both know Terry Bradsahw isn't and never should've been considered a Hall of Famer let alone a "franchise QB"... Stats below: Att. Comp. Pct. Yds. TD Int Rating Career Total 3901 2025 51.9 27,989 212 210 70.9 FYI... Losman and Edwards BOTH have higher QB ratings than Bradshaw... each just over 75%, but I digress.... http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/member.aspx?PlayerId=31&tab=Stats These are WORSE than Fitz by a WIDE margin... give Fitz that D and see what he can do. And, Bradshaw beat who at QB for Dallas in that game? Roger Staubach, a bonafide HoF'er and franchise QB. Also, no mention of the Jeff Hosteletler led Giants beating our own Jim Kelly and the Bills in 1990. So in 3 head-to-head meetings, you point out that 3 bonafide HoF QB's (Staubach, Marino, Kelly) lost to 1 bonafide HoF and franchise QB in Montana, a suspect HoF (and hardly franchise) QB in Bradshaw, and a career backup in Hostetler... OK. My point exactly. I won't argue a point about a bonafide franchise QB being a great thing to have... that's a no **** statement, but as you see above you don't NEED one to win. To date the best D has beaten the best O head to head... there it is.. it's fact. There's no subjectivity to it. Ok away from the "debate" As for this year, it will be awesome to see who wins out. You have two of the best D's: #1 Pitt and #2 GB in ppg, and two of the best QB's playing: #3 Rodgers and #5 Big Ben QB rating speaking. Offense are similar too: #10 GB and #12 Pitt in ppg. So this looks like a damned good matchup all around. What will win it? ST's... a turnover.. crucial penalty... coaches? Riddle me this... if a team scores 32 points a game will they ALWAYS win? Now this... if a team doesn't allow a single point in a game will they EVER lose? Jeopardy tune playing in background...

I provided input and fact... you provided nothing. I think the best you offered was "uh, uh".. like a 7 year old. Do you HAVE input, fact, objective observation? Of course I'd like this in football, not on a review of Brokeback Mountain and the like.

Dont worry, there are other, more appropriate, forums for you. Maybe you should head that way.

Lol... dumb@$$ way to make yourself look like the &^%$# you are. The matchup has only happened 3 times. 1990 was the LAST time it did, however since you won't acknowledge it, I'll remind you... the best D beat the best O every single time! You have proven your worthlessness here. I'm not sure anyone has really ever done as little as you have in a thread, but hey.. I'm no hater, so I accept you for what you are. Anytime you truly have a point to make, and want to substantiate it, I'll be here.

Really? Ok man, I'm sure there's a knowledgeable football fan in you somewhere. Is there such a thing as the "one" end all be all thing to ANYTHING? Esp in team sports where there are a million (yes, that's a lot!) of variables? If there were, the one and ONLY team to have it would win every year. This is akin to two children spatting off in the schoolyard about who can count the highest and the first kid goes "one, two, INFINITY!" That doesn't work man... let's do some investigating on your own and let me know what you find. I'm sure you see the post above that shows the only three times #1 O and #1 D played head to head right? Yeah... Wow... is this how you got the majority of your 2K posts? Well, I'm glad there's an outlet for you to keep you entertained. All good man...

It's never been about EVERY year Bug. I never said it was. Go ahead and scroll through 17 pages if you'd like. Not sure why people want to through in "ALWAYS" and "EVERY", but it's ok. STILL waiting for any kind of real football retort John. I showed you straight up head to head results... please refute it..

Beautiful Adam... here's the list of playoff teams and their D rankings (ypg) in the 2006 post season. 1. Indianapolis Colts 238.5 2. Baltimore Ravens 261.0 3. New York Giants 323.0 4. San Diego Chargers 327.0 5. Seattle Seahawks 327.5

Stay in your little world of wonder John. If YOU choose to take my words and run with them to continue an argument then that's your issue, not mine. I have again offered a lot of factual evidence, however you have added virtually nothing in the way of football knowledge. If you ask me, you read this and felt like you needed to be part of the action. I don't blame you John, numerous people have done the same throughout the years. I'm used to it, and if it fills your excitement meter, even better. I see there's a lot of subjectivity in these posts... all good. So lets just do this straight up head to head ok? since 1970, the Top rated O and Top rated D played against each other 3 times. Each time the Top rated D won the SB: 1978 Pittsburgh defeated Dallas 1984 San Francisco defeated Miami 1990 New York defeated Buffalo There now John... see that is factual. Subjectivity is removed. I don't need to jump on somebody else's bandwagon to try to act knowledgeable or witty. Just the facts... I have provided them, you have not. Your opinion is yours and yours alone. You two can pretend to be oblivious to them, but they remain constant. So... now here comes the blatant disregard for any facts I have provided; and you'll drone on and on about "I don't see your point, blah, blah, blah" Again, all good. Check that head to head post above. I'm sure you'll try to find some "witty" response, but we all know what it really is.