JDG

Except for the fact that Drew Brees had a pretty good first season - or at least a better first season than either of JP Losman's seasons so far. I obviously spent a lot less time observing Drew Brees than I have JP Losman. His second season was certainly pretty bad. But I think that you can have more patience for sitting through a "bad spell" by a QB when that QB has already had some "good spells." I think it is very arguable that Drew Brees would fit into the category, based on what I remember of his first season, looking at what he did that year.... The other problem is that while Drew Brees had a bad second season in his third year, plenty other QB's also struggled early - Cade McNown, Akili Smith, Heath Shuler, David Klingler, etc. Some guys, like Dan McGwire and Tommy Maddox, were drafted in the first round and never even got as far as JP Losman has in terms of starting experience. Moreover, I wouldn't be surprised if JP Losman's track record in his first 16 games isn't perhaps even slightly worse than those of some of the above QB's. It's like the old line "You know they called Jesus crazy" and "Yes, but they also called about a billion other guys who really were crazy, 'crazy' too..." You say that you "have to QB's time", but I personally think that there are scant few examples of QB's who have had as bad years in their 2nd and 3rd seasons, and who went on to become productive NFL starters. That's not necessarily to aruge that no QB has ever had a bad 2nd and 3rd year in the League and gone on to be successful, but just that JP Losman is at a level right now that I would describe as being "worse than bad." In my mind the Qb's that "you have to give time" to are those that show a minimum level of basic competency, and the one's that fail that level of basic competency you cut your losses on and move on. Thus, All I'm saying is that we should call a spade a spade, and that JP Losman is not at the level right now that we need him to be at this stage of his development, and if he can't at least get to that minimum level of development in the next couple weeks, we aught to start thinking about our options... JDG

How man QB's have passed for 105 or less meaningful yards in three games???? All you've proven is that average QB rating really can't tell you the whole story..... JDG

Gosh, that must mean that you have over two more years to go, then!

Har, har har..... Everyone is very good at finding excuses for why JP Losman's expectations should be lower than those of every other QB that has been successful in the NFL...... Of course, while everyone is coming with excuses, everyone seems a lot less good with coming up with examples of QB's who performed as badly as JP Losman in their third year in the NFL. (crickets chirping) That's the beautiful thing about excuses, you come up with enough of them, and you eventually conclude that in the last 20 years in the NFL, JP Losman is the first third-year QB who was mobile, AND who had a below-average offensive line, AND who had an offensive coordinator change, AND who was handed a starting job in training camp, AND who was benched for performance, AND who played college at a non-BCS school, AND who played high school in California, AND who played in an outdoor stadium, AND.... eventually you get enough excuses so that there aren't *any* comparable QB's to JP Losman at all! Thus, you end up perfectly happy trotting out the worst starting QB in the NFL under center each Sunday, because at least he's the *BESTEST* QB with all of your excuses! Yippee! Is it so wrong for a Bills fan to think that *even despite all the excuses* that maybe, just maybe, JP Losman should be a little better of a starting NFL QB by now than he already is if he was truly likely to turn into "the franchise" for us at some point in the future? I'm not even saying that you have to agree with me... just wondering why it is so wrong to even think that... JDG

Right. I guess that its just impossible in the group-think world of TBD to think that Losman is a bad NFL QB without hating him. Nevermind that I personally like Losman's attitude, that I like the way that he handles himself in press Conferences, and I like his occasionally flashes of brilliance in making something happen out of a broken play. No, nevermind all that, because if I just happen to think that there are about 30 QBs in the NFL that are playing better than Losman right now, and if I just happen to think that Losman is in the lowest tier of all recent first-round NFL QB's in their third season (whether they had played before then or not), well then, that must mean that I hate him. Observations of on-the-field performance be damned...... Whatever. JDG

Not at all..... care to take a look at the history of QB's in their third year, whether they started as rookies and 2nd year players or not? Some names like Pennington and Rivers immediately come to mind.....

The problem, todd, is that while there are some examples of a bad QB in his third year needing time to develop, there are also a lot examples of bad QB's in their third years who went on to become.... bad QB's.

Sounds a lot like Joe Gibbs.... and Washington still got mentioned....

Bill: I have to disagree with this idea that the o-line has torpedoed every Bills QB for the past 11 years. Rob Johnson hasn't been seriously considered an NFL starter since leaving Buffalo. Drew Bledsoe had been benched by one team (one that ostensibly has a great offensive line) when we got him, and was subsequently benched by the team he went to after Buffalo. His understudy just went in to Carolina and produced a solid win after going down by 14 points. Can you even *imagine* Drew Bledsoe doing that in a road game? And without getting too much into the JP Losman debate, JP Losman is very arguably the very worst starting NFL QB in the League, and is putting up some abysmal numbers for a 3rd-year QB. You'd really have to argue that our offensive line is one of the all-time worst in NFL history to argue that Losman's performance is predominantly the o-lines fault, and then you'd still have to try and explain what Joey Harrington just did behind Miami's putrid offensive line against Green Bay last week and in Chicago this week. I think it is just as likely that JP Losman's poor play is making our o-line look worse than it is. As far as Marv goes, our defense actually needed even more help than our offensive line. Last year, we had a "pick your cotton candy defense" (the opposite of "pick your poison." When teams decided that they wanted to run on us last year, they were able to run on us all day. When teams decided that they wanted to pass on us last year, they were able to pass on us all day. Our defense needed help. More specifically, there was *not* a lot of 1st round offensive line talent available. Who would we have picked? Winston Justice? He slipped to the second round, and is planted firmly on the bench. I believe that he hasn't even been activated as a reserve on gamedays. The Bills were also absolutely desperate for a defensive tackle after losing out on Pickett, so the trade up for McCargo was a smart move, especially since one could not know that Kyle Williams would pan out as he did. As for Yobouty and Simpson, I am a firm believer that you need to let the draft come to you, and they were great "value" picks, filling positions of need. I can't believe that you can complain so much about a 4th rounder who is starting as a rookie and playing decent. Yobouty, meanwhile, is a disappointment so far, but he was always projected as a project that we'd be grooming to potentially replace Clements, or at least fill the very, very, important 3rd CB slot on the roster. Finally, I have to completely disagree with you when you write: " In summary, JP might very well be shot. I truly hope not, but I am seeing him in an idiotic looking daze on the sidelines. He is making stupid plays and getting sacked. The sad part is that is just NOT his fault." Sorry, but I just can't sand this "anyone but JP" attitude. I'll say it again, JP Losman is very arguably the very worst starting QB in the League right now, and no matter how you cut it, a very large portion of that almost certainly has to be because right now he just plain isn't good enough. JDG

So, then, why did he mention Mark Brunell?

Right.... which explains why Bills beat writers are writing about whether or not to pull Losman, fans at the Ralph were talking about it all third quarter on Sunday, and the fans at my local Bills Backers have also been openly considering it.....

See bullet #2 in that article....

Yes, but when you are making a strong case to being the worst #1 QB in football - even if your excuse is that you also have the worst offensive line in football (debatable - c.f. Arizona), that excuse still rings kind of hollow.....

The offseason is history. Wasn't the primary goal of the *season* to develop a competent NFL QB? JDG

Provided that that team has the '85 Bears defense......

Fine then - what do your eyes tell you about how well he has played?

Welcome to the Club......

Some nitwit writer is trying to make the point about the large number of QB controversies in the League, and doesn't even bother to mention the Losman situation..... http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writ...ason/index.html Yet more evidence that we have become irrelevant...... JDG

There's a problem with your logic.... if 2-3 years from now, JP is still not an adequate NFL QB, and now you are stuck 2-3 years from now drafting a Colt McCoy or a Riley Skinner [or whomever is the best QB that year] and waiting 3-4 years for *him* to develop, then you have just set the program back by 5-7 years by sticking with JP Losman, instead of only the 3-4 years of going with Brady Quinn... JDG

And 102 total yards against a team that had given up more passing yards than any other team so far this season!

I noticed on many plays that we would take Terrence McGee out of the game, and line up one of the safeties (I believe Whitner) at corner, and play with just one safety. Green Bay didn't have a lot of WR's on the roster, so this may have been because they were in a one WR set, with one of the TE's split out wide..... I'd be curious to hear more about about it.... JDG

Its pretty absurd to give the QB a "D" in this one and the WR's an "F." Once again its the "anyone but Losman...." syndrome.... JDG

At the very least, I think it is time to move Craig Nall up the #2 slot - unless there is something going on in practice that we don't know about that indicates that Craig Nall is a complete bust. After sitting through today's game, I am yet even more deeply concerned about JP Losman's prospects as a starting QB. This was the game that should have been JP's opportunity to show us something - something as a developing player reaching the midpoint of his third NFL Season. There's no question that JP Losman had played poorly during our three game losing streak, but two of those games were against two of the best teams in the NFL, and the third was a bad spot against a desperate team. This game, however, was a home game, coming off a bye week, against a bad team. Here's the unfortunate tale of the tape: 2nd Quarter, Lee Evans gets behind the defense, and JP Losman badly underthrew the pass. With 9:38 to go in the 4th Quarter, JP Losman had 7 completions for 59 yards and 5 sacks for -38 yards.... 21 net passing yards!!!!! On 2nd and 20, the Packers commit football malpractice, and let Lee Evans get wide open behind the defense - thankfully, this time Losman actually completes the pass, saving the game, and giving Losman a whopping 102 yards passing for the day. At the end of the day, the Bills' longest offensive drive was 33 yards..... coming on the 43 yard (yes, 43 yard) busted-coverage pass play to Lee Evans. You can talk to me all you want about the offensive line, but the simple fact of the matter is that this is JP Losman's third game this year, and fifth in his short career with less than 105 meaningful passing yards. Is there any QB with such a track record outside of a rookie season? Yes, the offensive line isn't good, but to blame this QB performance on the offensive line would be to argue that our offensive line is not just one of the worst in the NFL, but is one of the all-time worst in NFL history. The truth of the matter is that JP Losman was bailed out of a horrible game today by great special teams, and a defense that generated four turnovers. The next time JP Losman puts up a stinker like this, we might not have the luxury of a defensive and special teams bailout. In that kind of situation, I'd at least like to have the option of being able to putt Nall in the game, to maybe see what he can do - again, unless there is something about Nall from practice that the coaches are seeing that we don't know about - but failing that, we should be preparing ourselves for getting a late-season look at Craig Nall before deciding whether or not we need to bet the farm on trying to land Brady Quinn.... JDG

Except that I don't know that *anyone* drawing an NFL paycheck could have trotted JP Losman out as a started after his hideous performances aginast Tampa, Atlanta, and New Orleans in San Antonio. Would you seriously have left him in as a starter??? JDG

So, you no doubt think that we should go out and find the likes of Cade McNown and Akili Smith out on the street somewhere, because those guys were never "trained to be successful in the NFL?" Cade McNown and Akili Smith each had about 15 meaningful games in two years before being abandoned. So, I supposed that Chicago and Cincinnati are "on the bottom of the League FOREVER", because they don't develop QB's, right? Or maybe they just knew how to cut their losses.... JDG