colin

no no as a rook with the same cast around him trent was much less erratic than jp. with better tools jp will still have too many negative plays, that's why he has got to go.

for this and ol i agree in principal, but only the very top rated guys this year are like that. if one falls to 11 that's one thing (and if they do there would be a run on the rbs, qbs, corners to make it happen) but an ok lineman vs a very good corner or nice trade down wouldn't be prudent. if the bills think alberts is the best pure G in 5 or 10 years then i'm all for taking him at 11, but is he, and if he is will he be there? my bottom line is taking a wr or cb in the first can very well be good, and a lineman isn't always sure thing.

the biggest knock on jp is the negative plays. he just fumbles, throws picks, gets sacked, or throws dirt or fly away balls too damn much for a guy you want to lead your team. as a rook trent does a better job w negative plays than jp. that tells me trent is ahead of the curve (i think he'll be solid, not there yet) and clearly jp is just not good enough. if we get a new te and wr, and maybe interior o line, and play killer d and run the ball next year trent is a guy i can feel good with throwing the ball 15-30 times a game using play action in a control o. jp is just too eratic.

close, but i think there is a bit more to it than that. the right compliment of players really super charges your D. wade phillips ds are all like that. in SD they have like 1 really good pass rusher, one good one, and then 3 strong but slow d linemen. due to scheme and complimentary talent they terrorise the nfl with 50+ turnovers! with our new lbs, stroud, johnson, and a cb i think we'll have the d to match up with new england.

you need it all. the giants had a bad pass rush last year (strahan and uminora had exactly the sacks kelsey and aaron did) and all they added was corners and the scheme the corners let them run. baltimore rellies heavily on their CBs and entire secondary to hold out while they jumble and overload the front 7. if we get corner/2ndary help (getting healthy will be part of that) we will be able to blitz and stunt much more. linebacker play is a part of all of this too. they make the most plays and a tackle resulting in a 7 yard gain is much different than a 14 yard gain. a new top cb will allow us to go balls out on 3rd and long.

drc then kelly would make me :>, trade down for lito would make me really happy! i dunno about all the overrated stuff. if kelly can go over the middle and grab the tough balls he would be huge for us. we could pump 50 passes for like 700 and some scores his first year. if he does that parrish is gonna tear it up underneath and evans over top can go back into 1400 yard territory. for TEs i like davis, but if he is a jerk (seems like usc jerks flop in the nfl, but miami jerks shine) i'll take the kid from ND or rucker from mizzou. the ruckus imo could be the fleet TE giving LBs fits we need. drc, kelly, ruckus, interior blocker, and owen schmidt would be a fun first 4 rounds!!

honestly, you are one of the fans who react to linemen being underrated in terms of their impact (and they often are) by totally overrating their impact. if you remember the dallas game, we often shut their run down by lining our LBs up right in the a gaps and daring them to run. they did and we blasted them. dallas has a very good short yardage running game. the thing is as a D (even with our terrible LBs) we can hurt a play if we know it is coming in the run game. baltimore shuts down nearly everyone's running game, although lynch played well as a rookie on a bad bad O against them. the point of this is that your line alone does not determine your running or passing game. we were an above average running team with a rookie rb who was hurt for a few games and nearly the worst passing game in the nfl. we don't need more 3rd and shorts converted, we need more points. a real passing threat (with multiple WRs) does wonders for a running game, it clears out defenders, puts LBs in react instead of attack mode, and gives the linemen an advantage as the d is guessing more often then knowing what the play is. every gilbride O has great YPC because he puts so much pressure on the D with his passing scheme. this includes the 02 and 03 bills, and the super bowl champion new york giants. i agree linemen are important, but we've got about the best tackle in the game, a top 5 guard, a couple other decent guys on the Oline, and we just beefed up our D line. i will take a lineman if he is a true top talent at 11, like top 5 or so. otherwise a corner or trade or whatever is better. if we take a guard he had better be the second coming of rueben brown, oherwise he just isn't worth the 11th pick to us.

corners help pressure. look at what we did WITH THE SAME LINEMEN with clements and without clements. look at what the giants did with a healthy madison and their rook, and the year before without. corners are a big part of the d -- that's why they barely do a thing against the run yet are the most expensive guys (next to superstar pass rushers, but there really aren't that many of those). you're basically saying we should draft depth for our oline, you can't possibly think a back up lineman is more important than generating more points. we have a good o line, but we barely score.

corners generally are the fastest return producing high picks. if we get the a top 2 or perhaps even 3 corner we might have a guy to slow down moss. that could give us some room to get to brady and be creative w the blitz. drc or someone like that (even a couple of the wrs) could also be kick return guys. having mcgee and the other one back there (along w parrish on punts) might end up breaking open a couple games.

yawn. fewest sacks allowed in team history, fewest passing touchdowns in the nfl. i think the problem isn't our line, it's our lack of playmakers. our sack total went down a ton, and all we lost was a corner and 2 LBs. we've added 2 LB's from the end of the last season (poz being hurt) and adding a corner along w all the linemen we signed will will put our D over the top. my ideal draft for the record starts with us trading to 19 for a 3rd and lito shep (and signing him) and nabbing the best wr at 19, te in 2nd, and og in 3rd.

no way we give up 1st and 2nd for a worse first and shep. if they will give shep for a 2nd, that is like giving the 11 for the 19 straight up. no way, if that lineman is there at that spot, the bills will want shep with a 1st and late pick, and some kind of heavy backstop if we can't sight him.

you guys on the linemen drum all day make me laugh. IF they think albert or whoever is a TOP 5 guy then yeah, you take him at 11. but we can't win without the ability to cover the big WRs or score TDs. for that we need DB's and WRs. yeah linemen are important, but we've added two very good ones to each line over the past 2 offseasons, we still need playmakers. i'd LOVE lito and the 19th, but i think we could also get a 3rd or a 4th for that (2nd maybe?). if we like lito we'd pay him near clements money IMO and still have plenty left over to sign evans and our other guys in the next few years. mcgee, shephard, whitner, simpson, kavika, poz, crow, aaron, stroud, mccargo, kelsey is a GREAT starting lineup, and we have some guys behind them. a d like that and a 3rd or 4th round pick on a blocker (to power up the run game) and a full back could make us a running and D machine.

corners are often the best picks. they come out of the gate ready, they are super expensive to sign in fa, and they can make everyone in front of them better. an extra half or 3/4 of a second can make a big diff in how many sacks and turnovers we get.

that would really give minni a serious front 4 has there ever been a d with all 4 linemen in the probowl?

i don't think harvey is a sudden enough rusher for us. look, somebody is gonna reach for a DT or an OT in the first 10 picks, at our slot we will have a shot at a top 10 or even top 7 or so talent. is harvey reall up there? matt ryan long long golston ellis dorsey mcfadden otoh clady and at the minimum 2 corners are clearly better players than harvey. i just don't think he's the 11th best player, and he might not be top 20 or 25

we'd get offered a ton for ryan at 11

i like this kid. i'd be happy if we got him. by game 16 he will be tested and ready to make a name for himself -- and that's when we host the pats and he can cover randy (with safety help). raw athletic ability and length can make all the difference in the world. some guys (bill in nyc that means you!!) under estimate how having a corner force the qb to hold the ball just a touch longer can help the pass rush. it also lets you blitz more and keep the o off balance.

he's not as good as schoble, will cost a ton, and is one f up from being gone. why does everyone like stand out white players in general, but not our own stand out white players? damnit!!

bill, i understand and agree w ur statements about needing solid to great linemen. and depth. i think you are going overboard with the lineman drum tho. we need wr and corner help. a solid corner will get us turnovers, help our pass D, and help our pass rush. we went out and signed a big time DT and IMO a very good DT in johnson. Our o line is one of out strengths. we also upgrade 2 of our LBs from the end of last season giving us much more beef upfront. at the 11th pick if the draft goes the way it is expected to, we should be able to draft the best WR a little early, a good to very good corner (and perhaps a solid value at 11), maybe trade down, or reach for a lineman. if a top 5 or so type talent lineman falls to us then yeah we look long and hard at snapping him up, but if it is the 5th+ rated dlineman or the 3rd/4th plus rated o lineman do you really think that helps out team more than a top corner?

i really like lito. i'd take him and the 19th pick (if lito keeps his current contract, perhaps w a small bump up front) which i expect we would spend on the WR thomas. that would really add a lot of talent where we need it. we could grab a TE, and the best interior OL or DL (any possy) in the 2nd and third. that would give us some young stud 1st round/high second round picks and accomplished veterans at every level of our D, and we'd have more physical play but still with speed all over on O.

i agree with all that, but i don't think we want a de that badly, especially who is likely to be there at 11. i'm like 90% sure we go corner. if thomas slips to late 1st we will prolly trade up for him too.

i dunno. same de's got us a solid passrush in 06, even with a bad over all d. all that changed was corner -- same happened for the giants this year. a solid corner will help our d out more than any dline unless one of the top 3 or 4 guys fall to us. even then the top corner might be better than the 4th dline -- harvey is the 5th dline in the draft and imo a BIG step down from studs. don't hate on corners -- they are the most consistent first year impact players.

i think our 2nd 4th rounder is fine for him. i'm not a pro fullback guy, but a boomer like him should be able to add that extra level of physicality to our running game. since our D is deeper and much more likely to get teams off the pitch earlier, sicking our big line and FB at guys early and often could result in very strong 4th quarter smash mouth stuff. the quick efficient passing game, a pressure d, and power running (not to mention our great special teams) can make us getting a punt downed at the 25 into at least a good time eating drive, good deep punt, and hard downs for the other team in their own end. a couple of those in the 3rd and like pitts used to we can really grind out a win. i think that's how we are building our team.

frogger, i like your analysis. i have a funny felling a lineman (o or d) is gonna fall and make it interesting at our pick -- trade or pick for us. i agree, corners are the best immediate impact rookies in the first round, that could really help our pass d.

i think we will go cb if the top of the draft goes as expected. a solid rook qb could really help us against the faketriots