colin

we'd get offered a ton for ryan at 11

i like this kid. i'd be happy if we got him. by game 16 he will be tested and ready to make a name for himself -- and that's when we host the pats and he can cover randy (with safety help). raw athletic ability and length can make all the difference in the world. some guys (bill in nyc that means you!!) under estimate how having a corner force the qb to hold the ball just a touch longer can help the pass rush. it also lets you blitz more and keep the o off balance.

he's not as good as schoble, will cost a ton, and is one f up from being gone. why does everyone like stand out white players in general, but not our own stand out white players? damnit!!

bill, i understand and agree w ur statements about needing solid to great linemen. and depth. i think you are going overboard with the lineman drum tho. we need wr and corner help. a solid corner will get us turnovers, help our pass D, and help our pass rush. we went out and signed a big time DT and IMO a very good DT in johnson. Our o line is one of out strengths. we also upgrade 2 of our LBs from the end of last season giving us much more beef upfront. at the 11th pick if the draft goes the way it is expected to, we should be able to draft the best WR a little early, a good to very good corner (and perhaps a solid value at 11), maybe trade down, or reach for a lineman. if a top 5 or so type talent lineman falls to us then yeah we look long and hard at snapping him up, but if it is the 5th+ rated dlineman or the 3rd/4th plus rated o lineman do you really think that helps out team more than a top corner?

i really like lito. i'd take him and the 19th pick (if lito keeps his current contract, perhaps w a small bump up front) which i expect we would spend on the WR thomas. that would really add a lot of talent where we need it. we could grab a TE, and the best interior OL or DL (any possy) in the 2nd and third. that would give us some young stud 1st round/high second round picks and accomplished veterans at every level of our D, and we'd have more physical play but still with speed all over on O.

i agree with all that, but i don't think we want a de that badly, especially who is likely to be there at 11. i'm like 90% sure we go corner. if thomas slips to late 1st we will prolly trade up for him too.

i dunno. same de's got us a solid passrush in 06, even with a bad over all d. all that changed was corner -- same happened for the giants this year. a solid corner will help our d out more than any dline unless one of the top 3 or 4 guys fall to us. even then the top corner might be better than the 4th dline -- harvey is the 5th dline in the draft and imo a BIG step down from studs. don't hate on corners -- they are the most consistent first year impact players.

i think our 2nd 4th rounder is fine for him. i'm not a pro fullback guy, but a boomer like him should be able to add that extra level of physicality to our running game. since our D is deeper and much more likely to get teams off the pitch earlier, sicking our big line and FB at guys early and often could result in very strong 4th quarter smash mouth stuff. the quick efficient passing game, a pressure d, and power running (not to mention our great special teams) can make us getting a punt downed at the 25 into at least a good time eating drive, good deep punt, and hard downs for the other team in their own end. a couple of those in the 3rd and like pitts used to we can really grind out a win. i think that's how we are building our team.

frogger, i like your analysis. i have a funny felling a lineman (o or d) is gonna fall and make it interesting at our pick -- trade or pick for us. i agree, corners are the best immediate impact rookies in the first round, that could really help our pass d.

i think we will go cb if the top of the draft goes as expected. a solid rook qb could really help us against the faketriots

if i were wilson and wanted the most profit, i'd sell the team to the highest bidder. i wonder if wilson has figured this crazy plan out!!!?!?! of course not, he doesn't understand business and the value of an NFL team. good thing, or else he'd be outta town in a new york minute!

u r my fav poster!!! i like the whole reality/facts based thing you do. i hope we come back to this thread late in the season to see what our team and coach look like. for me we have to beat New england. at least one time, we have to beat them. that will put us over the top and allow us to go to and into the playoffs. what do we need to beat new england? we need to get to brady, we need to punish them for putting 8 in the box, and we need to control the ball. for 1, adding a corner will help the most. clearly aggressive line play gets to the qb, but you have to be able to cover while getting to him. the giants, baltimore, and philly all had the corners last year to match up. we used to sack brady well when we had clements, losing clements cut our sack total in half from 06 to 07 (other stuff happened, but that was the big change). a bigger or more physical guy who can bother moss (along with ko or whitner over top making his day horrible) will allow us to put enough pressure on brady to set him off. for 2, we need a wide out aside from evans to punish the big slow plodding ne D. you can't physically beat them up enough without putting them back on their heels, they are too big and too good. a real physical guy aside from evans (and a TE with some production would help as well) to go after their slow and depleted secondary will be what we need. for 3 we need good steady play from the O. an upgrade at one of our interior blocking positions (c or rg) would help with this. 4 out of our first 5 picks will have to be CB WR TE G/C the order will depend on the who the best player available at each pick is, but i suspect we go in pretty much the order i've laid out above. we have D line, we have line backers, we have 1 decent CB and two very good safties, we have great special teams, we have an OL, we like our young QB, we have stud RBs, we have one very good WR, we have one TE who can play physically. we need those extra peices. the only way i'd go DL in the first like people are saying (or even OL) is if a top 5 type guy (long, long, golston, ellis, dorsey) falls to us (maybe otah, dunno if he can play inside tho). o/w it is a choice between the best corner and wr available. i think there might be more talent there at corner, and a deep WR class means we can get our big guy in the second (unless kelly is such a super TO clone that we just need to grab him). we are adding 4 solid players -- studs to our front 7 (johnson, stroud, mitchell, poz) and getting healthier (denney, mccargo). if we can cover for a few seconds we will mash brady's queer little pretty face into the turf.

pats draft: How to lose a division in 7 rounds bills draft: there will be (pats) blood

you see him at pittsburg in the playoffs? that's much much more than a game managing qb, he also put up a good effort at NE. he's a good qb.

bill, i like your focus, but you are banging this OL drum WAYYYYY to hard. much much higher importance to the bills WR TE CB DT another WR

ellis would make our DT rotation Stroud, williams, ellis, mccargo, johnson that's pretty freaking monster mix in the fact that ellis and johnson can also play DE, and you've got a serious line. see, all the guys talking about DLDLDLDLDL, i'll take one at 11 if it is a potential top 5 talent, but not some guy just because. if no top line is there we are better off taking WR

EASY fans on message boards say so and GMs are powerless to resist. do you think an NFL front office really has the heuvos to go against the sort of semi concensus we have here? NEVER!

i don't think the evidence supports your position as much as you think it does. in 06 the bills had a good pass rush (#8), the giants did not have the pass rush they have now. in 07 the bills had a terrible pass rush, the giants had a dominant pass rush. the bills lost zero linemen, but did lose the highest paid corner ever. the giants added good corners (rook and madison got healthy). it all counts, the DEs help the CBs and the CBs help the DEs. the most important position on any given pass play is the guy covering the wideouts. if uncovered the wideouts will kill you ever time. it's simple, but it's not as simple as only the passrush counts.

i think we will/prolly should take the best wr we can at 11, but if we can trade down and pick up mucho picks and still get one, that is clearly the dream. very hard to trade down as many of us know by now. an extra 2nd and 3rd would make this draft great, and even one more 3rd for jp (i hope) could allow us to just power up our DL/OL, get a CB and back up LB, and still grab 3 playmakers for the O.

it all counts guys. the likeyhood of a bust out by a guy with a poor 40 time is much higher than the same guy with a good 40 time. speed is a great thing to have on a team.

like dibs has pointed out (and by my count a few times) the ideas touted by posters about what possy to or not to take at what pick are just not founded. it's about the player. you are not drafting a DE, you are drafting the guy who plays DE at that slot. i love the idea of getting a freeney type pure pass rusher off the edge to provide more passrush and to rotate in and out of our line, but is the 3rd rated guy in the draft really that good off the edge? those 2 guys didn't strike me as terrors when i watched them play. a really good WR can make a HUGE impact on ur O. toss in a decent TE and we have an O with more guys who can hurt you since when we had a healthy moulds and price. that will trump a middling or even good DE every time. the point about aaron is good as well. he's not good and dissapears too much until you actually compare him to every other DE in the NFL. bruce smith was the best rusher and far and away the best 3-4 DE ever. asking a de to play like he did is asking your running back to break big runs like barry sanders did but with no line support. it's just not realistic.

cb's really are the best high draft value. they can play right away, very often are starters on their new team (and an upgrade). they can be big impact players, they can really super charge your pass D, and they are soooo expensive to replace. as much as a good pass rush helps your corners, corners help your pass rush. the giants went from OK to great rushing the passer by adding a couple of corners. we went from very good to terrible by losing clements. good teams have good corners.

krumrie was a great/very good player and is a guy who breathes and lives football. as far as being a coach it is hard to say, but tim anderson was absolutely horrible and not once did he show any pro ability.

i don't see how harvey is good enough to take him over WR just because. he can play, but the only way he is worth that pick for our team is if he is a sudden tenacious pass rusher. doesn't really look that to me. if kelly is healthy, or thomas projects as a real stud, then they are absolutely worth drafting at the 11th pick. just because some draft guy thinks they could be had at te 18th pick or whatever doesn't mean you can just force the 18th picking team to trade with you or anything, if you have no other player you want to draft over a guy and reasonable doubt that he'll be there with your highest available down trade partner, then taking him makes sense. that's what indy did with freeney, and if the WR there is better than the other guys by enough, that's what we'll do this season.

i always like a pass rusher, but if our FO likes a WR they will take him. we clearly need O playmakers more than D line, the question is do have a WR good enough to draft at 11 (which means can we get him some other way, not does he project to a lower slot, because if we miss him for a value then we are still short a wr). i'd take boldin in a second, is he even available?