BadLandsMeanie

You make some good points in your post but I want to just address this one part. What you describe there is exactly what I would like to see. We would have our rookie hotshot high pick who has time to learn on the bench if needed. The burnout to hold the fort if needed. And Peterman as longer term backup who might possible get better to be a starter. That gives us two chances at a long term starter as I see it. Also you leave out one thing. I didn't do research but Tyrod will get something like 16 million dollars next year. So that could instead be three 5 million per year free agents. Poyer for example is getting 3.25 millon per year. So it isn't just that Tyrod is gone. It can be 1)Tyrod Taylor 2)Rookie 3)Peterman or it can be (1) Rookie, (2) Cheap veteran burnout, (3) Peterman AND 3 pretty good quality free agents. I don't think it is as clear cut when you look at it that way.

See above.

I don't follow the reasoning. Unless you mean a bad first game means nothing for a first round pick, but it means a 5th round pick is no good? Why would that be? I don't see the sense in it. I have seen plenty of similar thinking though on the Bills alone and I never have liked it. EJ is good because we drafted him in the first. So we have to watch many bad games because the games are wrong, EJ is actually quite good. Because we drafted him in the first. JP is good because we drafted him in the first. Same thing then. I think once the draft is over, it is over. And if a team doesn't think anyone drafted after round 3 will ever amount to anything, why draft them? Why not just trade away every pick after round 3 every year? I'm sorry I do see your initial idea but when I think it through it doesn't add up to sound reasoning to me.

Well if we get to that point I would lean your way except I am not sure how much he would learn. To me it depends how good the pass rush of the opponents is. The Chargers just tied up our good linemen, (Richie And Wood), and took advantage of and defeated our poor or rookie linemen. If that keeps happening his learning chances are limited. He can learn not to telegraph when the ball will be hiked in the shotgun formation like he did every time. If the Bills know about that by now they can teach him not to do it. And he can learn when things are getting dicey to throw the ball away or just duck and cover. But thing get dicey for him a lot because he isn't an escape artist like Tyrod is and he needs to be behind this current line..

Ok. That is a valid take. It just depends on the level of thought and analysis an individual wishes to put into things. I like to understand things on a deeper level than that so I look at film and I consider other information and incorporate that into the opinion or conclusion I come to. I am still not done looking for info. But that does take time and effort and also I run the risk that my opinion will change the more information I consider. Your way is much more efficient. You know he was not a #1 so it is not the same thing you say. Who can argue? Not me! Go Bills!

I will say two things did One is, he wasn't crying. Nor did he break into a non-stop torrent of obscenities. I am pretty sure I would have done both. I had the obscenities breakdown part just watching from home. Second is he did read the field and very quickly. Except the oncoming rusher that he didn't always see. And he had a simpler chore to read the field because the receiver options were fewer. But he didn't just make outright bad reads that I could see.

I Get your point but I think it is more like oranges and tangerines. Plus, most or all of those guys were all groomed to start, probably beginning back in training camp. Peterman was groomed to start for 3 days (away game took up a travel day). Anyway I make no bones about Peterman maybe petering out. It is just that I thought he had maybe set himself back years because of how bad that was. So seeing that others had dismal first games too helped me understand things better.

I hope so too. Mind you I am sure plenty of bad QBs had bad first games also. But this article gave me some perspective.

This in excerpted from an article that is 3 years old. So I am hoping it isn't bad form to show it here because of how old it is. Also I stole the post from a poster somewhere else. So it is was basically stolen already. I hope that is ok. I thought it was decent information for us. By Gil Brandt NFL Media senior analyst Published: Dec. 17, 2014 at 02:58 p.m. Updated: Dec. 17, 2014 at 05:00 p.m. Troy Aikman Drafted: No. 1 overall by the Dallas Cowboys in 1989. First start: Loss (28-0) to the Saints in Week 1 of 1989; 17 of 35 (48.6 percent) for 180 yards, zero touchdowns, two interceptions, two sacks and a passer rating of 40.2. Aikman -- whom I helped scout and draft -- was thrown right into the mix as a rookie. While he didn't seem lost or overwhelmed at all in that first game, he finished his first season -- which was interrupted by a broken finger that cost him five games -- with nine touchdowns against 18 interceptions while averaging just 5.9 yards per pass. Those are not very good numbers. In fact, it wasn't until his third year in the NFL that he managed to throw more touchdowns (11) than picks (10). So what -- aside from playing for a team that finished 1-15 a year after going 3-13 -- held Aikman back in that first start and the rest of Year 1? I think, in general, a lot of rookie quarterbacks are surprised by the complexity of the game at the pro level and the sophistication of their opponents -- how well people disguise coverages and how effectively they exploit weaknesses. Even while he struggled, though, Aikman still threw a big ball and showed excellent accuracy. Norv Turner -- Aikman's offensive coordinator from 1991 to 1993 -- will tell you he's never seen a quarterback as accurate as this guy. John Elway Drafted: No. 1 overall by the Baltimore Colts in 1983 (traded to Denver Broncos). First start: Win (14-10) over the Steelers in Week 1 of 1983; 1 of 8 (12.5 percent) for 14 yards, zero touchdowns, one interception, four sacks and a passer rating of 0. Elway's debut was marred by an elbow injury that forced him out of the game, but his second start (9 of 21 for 106 yards, zero touchdowns and three sacks) wasn't much better. He went on to have a relatively rough rookie season -- 7:14 TD-to-INT ratio and 28 sacks in 11 games -- in which he was benched after three consecutive losses. But he also was part of a team that made the playoffs that year, and he ended up leading the Broncos to three Super Bowl appearances, five playoff berths and six winning seasons over the next nine years. Still, in many ways, the jury was still out on the quarterback, who threw just one more touchdown pass (158) than he did picks (157) from 1983 to 1992. He was kind of like a wild colt, so to speak, in that he would run around and scramble somewhat recklessly and make risky throws across his body. In 1993, he seemed to turn a corner, and he really took off in 1995, when Mike Shanahan -- who spent two previous stints on Denver's staff during Elway's career -- became the Broncos' head coach. In the final four years of his career, Elway posted a record of 43-16, threw 101 touchdown passes against 49 picks and, of course, won two Super Bowls. Andrew Luck Drafted: No. 1 overall by the Indianapolis Colts in 2012. First start: Loss (41-21) to the Bears in Week 1 of 2012; 23 of 45 (51.1 percent) for 309 yards, one touchdown, three interceptions, three sacks and a passer rating of 52.9. Luck struggled some initially with the speed of the game and maybe tried to force the ball more than he should have. But he seemed to compress the normal timeframe of development for a rookie quarterback, bouncing back from a 1-2 start to lift Indy to an 11-5 record and a playoff berth. The Colts' relatively easy schedule and roster -- which, though it lacked some pieces, was better than what most No. 1 picks have to work with in Year 1 -- helped. But Luck also showed a knack for winning games, compiling seven game-winning drives as a rookie. It couldn't have hurt that his father, Oliver Luck, and his college coach, Jim Harbaugh, were both former NFL quarterbacks. Peyton Manning Drafted: No. 1 overall by the Indianapolis Colts in 1998. First start: Loss (24-15) to the Dolphins in Week 1 of 1998; 21 of 37 (56.8 percent) for 302 yards, one touchdown, three interceptions, four sacks and a passer rating of 58.6. Manning has, of course, become one of the premier quarterbacks in the game, earning 13 Pro Bowl nods and five MVP awards in 14 years with the Colts and two-plus years with the Denver Broncos. And though he set what was then a rookie record with 3,739 yards, he also went 3-13 in his first year with Indy -- and believe me when I tell you that a lot of people were asking whether he was good enough to hack it. In fact, after a less-than-stellar performance in a Week 5 victory over Ryan Leaf's Chargers that season, there were even some folks hollering that Indy should've taken Leaf instead of Manning with the first overall pick in the 1998 NFL Draft. That Manning -- who was very well coached at Tennessee and has such a great understanding of the game -- stumbled out of the gate like that just illustrates how hard it is to start right away as a rookie, especially with the competitive balance being so great in the NFL. Of course, Manning was a tireless worker even then, and, with the help of assistant Tom Moore, grew into the all-time talent we know today. Alex Smith Drafted: No. 1 overall by the San Francisco 49ers in 2005. First start: Loss (28-3) to the Colts in Week 5 of 2005; 9 of 23 (39.1 percent) for 74 yards, zero touchdowns, four interceptions, five sacks and a passer rating of 8.5. Smith is very smart, but it took time for that to translate to the NFL gridiron. He had a horrifically bad rookie year, taking 29 sacks and throwing 11 picks in just nine games (seven starts) while posting a sub-40 passer rating four times. Smith didn't find the end zone until the final game of the season, a 20-17 win over Houston. He seemed reluctant to throw downfield and didn't break out of checkdown mode for years. It wasn't that Smith, who was neck and neck with Aaron Rodgers in my pre-draft scouting as a prospect, lacked talent. I think a key factor was that he just didn't get as lucky as other guys did in terms of the kind of coaching he received as a rookie. When Jim Harbaugh arrived in 2011, he turned Smith into a good quarterback, and the signal-caller has continued to thrive with the Chiefs under Andy Reid. Just look at his numbers since '11: 38-15-1 record with a TD-to-INT ratio of 71:23. Fran Tarkenton Drafted: No. 29 overall (third round) by the Minnesota Vikings in 1961. First start: Loss (21-7) to the Cowboys in Week 2 of 1961; 8 of 24 (33.3 percent) for 117 yards, zero touchdowns, two interceptions, three sacks and a passer rating of 15.5. Tarkenton's first official start paled in comparison to what he accomplished in his true debut the week before, when he came off the bench to complete 74 percent of his passes for 250 yards and contribute five touchdowns (four in the air and one on the ground) to a 37-13 win over the Bears -- the first ever victory for the Vikings franchise. The rest of his season was a bit rockier, as he went 2-8 in 10 starts while posting a TD-to-INT ratio of 18:17 over 14 games. He had mixed results over the next few years before being traded to the Giants in 1967. This, he recently told me in a conversation on the phone, is when he turned his career around, installing the offense himself and calling the plays in New York as a 27-year-old quarterback; he credits himself as being the person most responsible for his ascension. After a successful stint in New York, Tarkenton was traded back to the Vikings in 1972 -- and proceeded to make the playoffs from 1973 to 1978, going on a run that included three Super Bowl appearances and saw him win the MVP award in 1975. He was a scrambler who overcame a lack of height -- he was 6 feet if you stretched him out -- and learned how to complement his scrambling ability with his arm. Steve Young Drafted: No. 1 by the Tampa Bay Buccaneers in the 1984 supplemental draft. First start: Win (19-16, OT) over the Lions in Week 12 of 1985; 16 of 27 (59.3 percent) for 167 yards, zero touchdowns, zero interceptions, six sacks and a passer rating of 77.2; 10 carries for 60 yards. Young wasn't exactly a rookie when he entered the NFL, having spent two years with the Los Angeles Express of the USFL before going to Tampa Bay. Perhaps Young became used to the lesser competition he saw in his first pro league, because he struggled with the Bucs, compiling a record of 3-16 as a starter while throwing nearly twice as many interceptions (21) as he did touchdown passes (11). Tampa Bay shipped him to San Francisco for a second- and a fourth-round pick in 1987 -- laying the groundwork for his career to take off into the stratosphere. Even that took time, of course, as Joe Montana was entrenched at quarterback when Young joined the Niners. But ultimately, coach Bill Walsh and his West Coast system shaped Young into the man who won two MVP awards and helped San Francisco score the third-most points in Super Bowl history in a 49-26 win over San Diego. Follow Gil Brandt on Twitter @Gil_Brandt. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000445192/article/troy-aikman-peyton-manning-among-qbs-with-bad-first-starts

No. That is not the case. Don't worry. No warning needed. But it will help you get a joke I have in there if you happen to know the song Vincent By Don McLean

Sneak Preview of a post I hope to finish tomorrow. I have watched the game films of the first half. Which was hard. Very unleasant to relive that. But I feel better. Maybe oddly. Again only the first half so far. But there was no quitting that I saw. No evidence McD has lost the locker room. We just stink. Details later but I think just stinking is better than political turmoil and bad blood. Also the Chargers are playing very good football.

Per your first point, I don't know if they have shut down on him or not. I know I don't know who he is. And maybe the players don't either. He is too positive and too squeaky clean and he hides his less admirable qualities too much. Everybody has negatives. He hides his too much. The very first time I spoke to a head NFL coach Mike Mularkey made me the butt of a joke by twisting a question I asked. All nearby had a hearty chuckle. I wasn't happy in the moment but afterwards I liked him. He was real and he treated me like one of the guys is how I take that. He told me another time he was intimidated about having to face the Patriots twice a year. He didn't pretend. I called his radio show a couple times, mind you I had done my homework watching film. He listened to what I said. He filled me in on some stuff. I had told him the Chargers had got our silent snap count somehow because watching frame by frame the first half I figured it out they started off the line a fraction of a second too soon. He told me I was right and that they saw it and changed it up later. I was asking him what was wrong with our offense. Something was wrong but I couldn't put my finger on it because everybody was doing the right things. He agreed with me, on the air, and later used the same word I had come up with to describe it in a presser. I was very mad when he quit but I am over that now and this was a real person. I think they may not be against McDermott but they also can't get attached to him if he is the same cardboard cutout to the players as he is to us. As for your second point, I don't like that either! But how old are you? There is a very real chance I will be dead before the Bills ever turn it around. I am in no immediate danger and I could easy be alive in 20 years or more. But, the drought itself is getting to be that long. So I have had to accept it and deal with it on that footing. One part of that for me is I won't buy into a team until the organization does things the way I believe they have to be done. So far they have done that, this latest fiasco aside. Overall they are doing things the way I would in terms of the draft and draft preparation. Here is the bright side as I see it. Strictly speaking the odds of winning a Superbowl are 1/32. If it takes 32 years I will almost certainly not be here. But, if you have an owner who is really trying, that cuts the odds I think by about half. So, 1 in 16. Pegula may not be off to a great start but he is trying. He very plainly is not here to make as much money as he can off the team. That is a blessing.

Im thankful for my friends and family And call me kooky I am thankful for Ralph Wilson and his family and Terry and Kim Pegula. And in a way I am thankful I am not Sean McDermott right about now.

I also don't think the defense is all due to Marcell not being in for the 45% or whatever amount of plays he had. I have started to wonder though if his absence leaves us without an enforcer. By that I mean somebody who gives other teams a reason not to cross lies with cheap shots or sneaky punches etc. The only one I can think of on offense is Richie and he is 35. Hughes isn't afraid to mix it up on defense but I am not sure how effective he is. That is just total speculation but I will be looking for cheap stuff when I look at the film the next couple days.

I hadn't thought of it this way. That is ominous. You are right and I do not like this. That is exactly how we blew it with the last two first round qb picks. I wish I was Pegula because I am pretty sure I could fix this so we could keep our options open. But I don't get the sense that he is crafty, or should I say Krafty, like me.

Beverly Sills? The story fits perfectly. But somehow a Beverly "Bubbles" Sills anecdote does not fit my initial impression of you based on your other posts and your avatar. Do you watch the Bills games with opera music playing? That makes an interesting mental image. I think you may be a bit unusual. We will get along fine. Right now I think they genuinely didn't know Peterman was not ready because he must have looked very good in practice. And they did not know our line was incapable of stopping a very fierce pass rush. And I bet McD had never started a rookie before. I know he had to do with Newton but Newton was groomed from the the start of OTA's to be the starter. Peterman was running the scout team, not taking reps as a potential starter. So no matter who the QB is I think you have to expect some jitters in that first game and I think McD did not. Recall though that the first few series didn't look bad. Aside from the Dimarco interception the offense was doing ok. Then Benjamin goes down after catching one pass, and he was supposed to be the main guy for Peterman. At that point is where McD made his second and maybe less understandable mistake. My rookie got picked off, not his fault but still it is rattling. Now out goes his main target he has been practicing with all week. He has to be unsteady we have to dial it back. Ask yourself, honestly, in McD's shoes wouldn't you have known that if you were thinking level headed and dispassionately? Wouldn't you have known it was time to regroup? I would have. We try a run game or some screens and take some 3 and outs if we have to so the QB can settle down. He did not do that he kept on full steam ahead. I think that was either emotion or stupidity on McD's part. Right now I think it was emotion though he won't recognize that.

dilly dilly!

It isn't that we are losing that is so annoying. It is that we have been losing as if the players don't know how or want to play, and the coaches are drunk. Making headlines, for being the worst losses ever. The most interpretations ever. The most yards gained ever, The most consecutive touchdowns without trowing a pass ever. The most series of downs without forcing a punt ever. These are the records this team is challenging for. It doesn't have to be that bad to rebuild a roster. Then we have the coach pretending that he doesn't understand this. We are "in the hunt". Another slogan.That is what I think makes people angry.

At the risk of being annoying, for some reason this song came to mind. Ah, let's go to the huntLet's go to the hunt, (oh baby)Let's go to the hunt, (oh baby)Let's go to the huntCome on, let's go to the hunt Then I am picturing McD and Beane and the coaches singing this to get the players psyched up. Maybe it won't work so well.

If Shaw can't defend it, it must be pretty hard to defend. I think he may have put a monkey on Peterman's back too. If you make a decision like he did, you really have to be right. He was far from right and to do that so early in his tenure was a very risky thing. I don't see what the payoff he was picturing would be. If you bet a lot you want to win a lot. Did he suppose Peterman was going to take us the the playoffs? It seems like he thought he had his speedboat but it turned out to be a rubber duck. Very puzzling. I think as a class of people, NFL players and coaches are really bad at at anticipating and planning for failure. Always thinking positive has a down side. They didn't even seem to have plan for if things started to go wrong for Peterman out there. Why not wait until our fate was decided and if we were out of "the hunt" then stick Peterman in there? Oh well. I have signed up for the films I will take a look over the next couple days and see if I spot anything useful.

I know your take on what you do. I understand that and you have said it before so it isn't new to me. You might say you construct a theory that fits the facts that we know. I think you are more like a defense attorney. You have a built in approach that the client is innocent. And you construct a story incorporating the known facts that supports that conclusion. Those are similar but not the same. For whatever it is worth I thought the plan was to have Peterman start next year and have the QB they get this year learn behind him. It is 16 million dollars cheaper and lets them assemble a roster that fits their vision for the offense. It also gives them two guys who might win out as a long term starter instead of just teh one they draft this year. I think that plan, if it ever was a plan, is in trouble too.

What you say isn't caca. That tell was really, really bad for the reasons you described. And even worse, if the Bills had seen it we could have got a first down out of it. I am sure they were keying on it. (The astonishing attack so fast off the line alone should have alerted the Bills that something was up). If they saw it they could have had Peterman just do it as usual and give a hard count instead when he had been giving the snap count, and they would have jumped offside, penalty, first down in the bag. I could write a whole big post on this little detail. But I won't I will just say if you watch film you will see things that no one else does. And that no one talks about. And that no one in the mainstream media see or knows. They write about how McDermott should be ashamed or looks silly or whatever the heck. They are truly idiots most of them, and they refuse to watch film. If we had a good press that actually did watch film it would help the team because the coaches are human and do miss things. I would do it but the guys these days are know it alls and will not listen to one word. (Mularkey did FYI) Anyway. I have a very long way to go learning the game. But I am going to watch the film and I will know what is happening out there I bet. And it isn't just scheme. And nobody at all will tell me what is really happening, certainly not in the press. Gaugan wrote a piece in TBN that said even extra blocking couldn't help Peterman. They did plan for it and they did have extra blockers, but gee even that wasn't enough. Take him at his word, that would seem pretty conclusive. Except that not one time of the sacks and hits, not once, was an the extra blocker on Bosa. Which he did not mention. Unbelievable. This is turning into the whole big post I said I wouldn't write. So last I will say the Patriots just did as they always do and got a Bill to pump for info before the game. This year they took someone from our practice squad. Over and over they do that and over and over the Bills have no counter for it. I wish they would. I would if I was King.

Yes very much so. But since we are of the Untouchable caste, figuratively speaking among NFL fans, accept and adapt is my strategy. I have had the impression that you have been very unwilling to question authority or expertise when it comes to the Bills and their coaches. I like it better when you don't set your opinion aside as automatically less valid. Rock on Shaw I say! PS That Pats are going to slaughter us. Better I think to just enjoy watching one of the greatest of all time perform surgery on our secondary live and in person. I did that once so I am not saying you should do it but I couldn't. And it is a lifetime fond memory just having got to watch him because he is so good at that.

I'm sorry that you had to endure the horrors on the road to where you are at Shaw. But I like this change in you!

I have watched that play from two angles now. I am pretty sure now that Bosa poked him in the eye quite hard. Nope it isn't legal but they didn't see it I am sure. Also it may have been an accident. But I doubt Dawkins thinks so! Even money Dawkins is wearing a face shield next game.