Orton's Arm

I agree that things look grim, but I don't feel the Bills can be good in 2006 no matter what they do. The key is to do well in the draft, both this one and the next. With two solid drafts, plus free agent signings prior to 2007, plus the younger guys we have now, the Bills MIGHT be able to do something. Unless Losman turns out to be the next Kordell.

Yeah, because Holcomb is a veteran QB who came here, worked hard, kept his mouth shut, didn't get injured despite a horrible OL, and gave the Bills everything he had on every snap. I hate guys like that.

Probably any coach with kids in school wouldn't want to come here after what's happened to Mularkey.

No, I'm saying that less than half his posts in that first page make no reference to the Patriots at all. If you don't believe me, look for yourself. His sig line is pro-Tom Brady, which is something one might expect from a Patriots fan. His name implies that Donahoe is more style than substance. Given that TD always seemed to take the flashy offensive skill position player instead of the blue collar OL, I could see some truth to that assessment. So, apparently, could Ralph Wilson, who just got done firing Donahoe. Do you actually believe any of this, or are you just trying to draw attention to yourself?

From what I've seen, most of his posts don't mention the Patriots at all, and most of those that do aren't really an assessment of the team's overall quality. For you to say that all 1700 of Hollywood's posts are to praise the Patriots shows you have failed to achieve the objectivity you talk about. As for being fleeced, I don't see how Hollywood is any more likely to fleece me than that Dolphins fan you praised. Both root for division rivals. The difference being that the Patriots have basically owned the Bills ever since Belichick got rolling, while the Dolphins have been about as bad as the Bills. I don't like the Patriots' dominance any more than you do, but I don't think that taking my frustration out on Patriots fans will do very much to help the situation. What was I supposed to do about the Bills fans who'd insulted me first? Lie down and take it? No thanks.

In other words, you're saying that even though there are no specific posts that would prove Hollywood to be a troll, you want to label him one anyway. That's your choice, but don't expect me to follow suit. In those five pages of reading I did, I saw him participate in a number of subjects that didn't have to do with the Pats. And you're lumping him in with them, instead of judging him on his own merits. Because the Bills board is the coolest game in town!

At least I was awake in fourth grade when they taught us the difference between to and too.

I knew that if I demanded evidence from you to support your accusations, I was unlikely to receive any. I knew you were much more likely to, in time, question whether I was a Bills fan at all. If maintaining your good or neutral opinion of me was more important than adhering to principle, these facts would have caused me to be silent. I'd always kind of been around the Bills, but I didn't really start following them until the comeback victory against Houston. The fact they hadn't given up when everything seemed hopeless was something I could admire. The fact Frank Reich had the biggest comeback in college history showed me the type of man he was. But what really got me was the poem he read after the game, and his remarks. He came across not just as a man with an iron-hard will to win, but also deeply mature and spiritual. You could tell there was more to him than just football. Hitherto I'd thought football players were stupid, shallow, selfish party animals. Frank Reich forced me to abandon that stereotype. I admit that since then, the organization has taken backwards steps, not just in the win/loss column, but more importantly in the dignity and character of its players. Instead of bravely fighting until the bitter end, too many of the more recent roster's players have the tendency to throw in the towel when things get a little rough. That's not the kind of team I want to root for, but it's the one I'm stuck with. Hopefully Marv will be able to return this team to the way it once was. Why am I sticking up for Hollywood? Because it's too easy on message boards to destroy someone's reputation with unsupported accusations. DC_Tom/CTM uses this technique all the time, which is why his net contribution to these boards is negative. If you want to destroy Hollywood's reputation, prove to me he deserves to have it destroyed.

I--again--went through the most recent page of Hollywood's posts. The majority of those posts--13--had nothing to do with the Patriots. Another four brought up the Patriots in the context of saying that he's not a Pats troll. Typical was the post where he wrote, (Even though he didn't mention the Patriots by name, I still counted it as a Pats reference.) The remaining eight posts did in fact mention the Patriots in some way, shape, or form. So saying that he "only responds to posts about his team" is clearly untrue. As for inflammatory remarks, the only ones I've seen Hollywood post have been responses to much more incendiary remarks directed against him. AKC lumping him in with pedophiles comes to mind. I've gone through five pages of Hollywood's posts, as opposed to your zero. So you don't have the right to complain that I haven't done all 40. If you want that task done, do it yourself.

Is it your goal to prove to the board your IQ is lower than a monkey's?

Nor, apparently, are you capable of quoting a single troll-like Hollywood post. But apparently, you ARE capable of making up for your lack of hard facts with vehemence and emotion.

Why would I conceal my real purpose? I'm happy to be open and straightforward about why I'm here. My purpose is to make sure that Hollywood doesn't get branded with a negative label, unless it's clear it's deserved. I realize that it's perfectly clear to you that Hollywood deserves every negative label in the book. But I don't know you well enough to simply take your unsupported word, and it's unreasonable of you to ask me to do so.

Eloquently expressed, but you have once again failed to show me any Hollywood post about which Bills fans in general should be offended. I've told you what you need to do to prove your case, and you seem unwilling or unable to do it.

I read an article recently about Chad's comments after the Bengals beat the Steelers in the regular season. Johnson talked about how the Steelers' style of play was as old-fashioned and obsolete as the black and white television, and how their place was being taken by new-look teams such as the Bengals. The Steelers decided to get payback for these comments in the playoff game. While the injury to Palmer was accidental, the Steelers played that much harder because they were mad.

Let's see what GW's mistakes were: - Offensive coordinator selection. First the Mike Shepherd fiasco, then Kevin Gilbride. - Defensive coordinator selection: This one is harder to forgive. The Bills' blitz-happy defense piled up pretty stats whenever it faced an offense that couldn't pick up the blitz. But the defense proved hapless against the Patriots and other teams that knew what they were doing. Sending Jerry Gray to compete in a battle of wits against Charlie Weis was like handing a five year old a pellet gun and telling him to take out yonder gorilla. - Special teams coach selection - Communication failures with the players So the comparison between Belichick and Gregg doesn't hold up. At least Belichick's Cleveland teams got the X's and O's right. His problem was he completely lost the team once the move to Baltimore was announced. Learning from this failure, he realized his next team should consist of high character players who don't quit just because of something unexpected. Having said all this, I agree with the original point of this thread, which is that the decision to hire Gregg was a reasonable one that worked out quite poorly.

Yet another statement that Hollywood is a troll without providing quotations of troll-like posts. If you want to persuade me of your opinion, you'll need to back it up with hard evidence. Otherwise, don't waste your breath.

I'd LOVE for the Jets to take Lendale White, because starting RB isn't a position of need for the Bills. So some other player--Hawk, Da Brick, Mario--would fall to Buffalo.

I keep hearing about how Hollywood is this troll, but nobody who flames him backs it up with actual quotations of his posts. Maybe those posts are there somewhere, but after five pages of digging I haven't found any. Since putting the troll label on Hollywood is someone else's crusade not mine, I'll let others dig through the 35 pages of posts I didn't look at (as opposed to the 5 I did read through). I'm beginning to suspect that some of the hate for Hollywood is due to short guy syndrome. You know the stereotypical short guy who feels insecure about his height. If you're significantly taller than him, he will take almost anything you say or do as a personal insult. Now, there are people on these boards who identify strongly with their 5-11 football team. It's possible for such people to relate to fans of other bad to mediocre football teams, even Miami fans. But a guy who roots for a near-perfect division rival is another story. It's easy to imagine that this guy is looking down on you. Even when he isn't.

I agree with your assessment. Look closely at what TD has achieved in the draft over the past five years. He's found six players who have proven worthy of being starters: -McGee -Clements -Crowell -Schobel -Evans -McGahee Of those six, none have proven they will be above-average for NFL starters, and only one player--Schobel--plays on one of the three most critical positions (OL, DL, QB). Losman may well be a bust. Consider that, before replacing Bledsoe with a younger and more mobile Losman, TD decided to replace Neil O'Donnell with a younger and more mobile Kordell Stewart. Also bear in mind that TD wasn't the Steelers' GM when they picked O'Donnell in the first place. While it's too early to officially declare Losman our Kordell Stewart, I have to say I'm worried. If this team doesn't have a QB--which may well be the case--Ralph will probably die before the Bills next get to the Super Bowl.

I wish more posters were like you in valuing honesty over cheerleading.

And if the DE turns into the next Erik Flowers? . . . Ultimately you face risk no matter what position your draft pick plays.

Absolutely no veterans--or at least, no investment in veterans in terms of salary cap or forgone draft picks. It's important to take a cold, hard, unsentimental look at what this team truly is. The only draft picks from the TD era who have proven themselves worthy of a starting position are: McGee Clements Crowell Schobel Evans McGahee Of those six, none have proven they will be above-average for an NFL starter. None. The deep 2006 draft is an excellent opportunity to find a few players who can play at or near an elite level, and be part of this team's core for the next ten years. Not all the draft picks will work out, but I guarantee you that none of the over-30 guys I want to trade for picks will be playing at a high level in five years.

Face it, this team is in rebuilding mode. You trade away anyone over 30 if there's a market. That means Spikes and Fletcher, even Sam Adams if someone wants him, and of course Eric Moulds. Holcomb too, even though I named my avatar after him. The ONLY type of over-30 player I'd be interested in keeping is a guy who's a) cheap, b) has no trade value, and c) a good mentor for the younger players. As for addressing the CB position, the 2005 season created doubts that Clements is really the answer. Maybe the Bills will get lucky and find a diamond in the rough. If not, they can address the position in the 2007 draft. I really wouldn't mind the team going 2-14 next season, because that would get us better draft position. Think about what's good for the team in 2007 or 2008, not 2006.

This year's draft has plenty of depth at offensive line. If you could franchise and trade Nate, get a high second round pick, and use that pick on a good offensive lineman, you'd be in good shape. The Bills should try to bring in the whole future starting offensive line THIS YEAR via the draft, so that the players will have time to gel and adjust to the pro level.

A good post. Clearly no draft pick at any position is a sure thing. Having said that, I think that if the Bills are truly confident Da Brick is the real thing, they should trade up and grab him. What about those interior OL that you're excited about? That's easy. Franchise and trade Nate Clements for a late first/early second round pick, or just use Clements + our first rounder to get Da Brick in the first place. The Bills should also consider any reasonable offers for Takeo Spikes, because Spikes only has a few good years left, and the Bills are at least two years away from contending. The Bills could probably get at least a second rounder for Spikes. Getting rid of existing defensive personnel would also help the transition to a 3-4 defense.