Sig1Hunter

Oh? Is that all you said? I swore I read where you suggested that I would choke someone who dared call me a racist. Those were your words, not mine. Because I’m a cop and I happen to be white that makes you feel like you are justified in making such a ridiculous and disgusting statement. Regarding my “dismissive” attitude: people can have all the feelings they want. When those feelings start directly effecting the lives and property of others (others who are perfectly innocent in the situation), that’s where their right to have their feelings hurt end. I thought you were going to bed.

That last question is at the essence of my disgust at what is going on now. If the narrative is false, and people are getting whipped up in to a tizzy, they will take that out on cops - like we are seeing during these “protests”. Can things get better in LE - yes. The silver lining in the horrible killing of George Lloyd should have been a catalyst for that. Everyone is behind that it was wrong. What practices allowed Chauvin to be hired? And to be retained? Why couldn’t we take a look at those things and work towards fixing those? Instead we’ve been terribly divided into opposing camps. As such, I’m scared there will be many more cases like that in the near future.

Found it. Jeremy Henwood. Ambushed by a criminal POS and shot in the head with a shotgun, McDonald’s food still warm in the bag next to him in his car. https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sdut-surveillance-video-shows-officers-final-moments-2011aug16-story.html

Yeah. Tonight I’m reminded of the officer.. in San Diego maybe(?)...in the McDonald’s. A young boy who happened to be black was trying to order some food, but didn’t have enough money. The cop saw what was going on and bought the meal for the kid. Not long after finishing his meal and leaving the restaurant, the officer was shot and killed. When he bought that young man his meal, he had no idea that he was on camera doing that. He didn’t do it for fame or notoriety. 99% of cops that I know would do that same thing if they were in the same circumstance. This trouncing of law enforcement is ridiculous and sickening. “Racist police” is a term that is thrown around without any resistance in a lot of places, and its disgusting to me. Edit: it bugs me that I can’t remember that cops name, but everyone knows who Michael Brown is.

Suicide by cop.

I linked it in my response to SDS. I noticed that the stats include death by vehicle in your post. Is that to say that if a cop accidentally crashes into a black person and kills them, that is included? I mean, we can all agree that traffic crashes are one of the major killers of innocent people in this country. But is it an indicator of racist police? What are the numbers for other races? Edit: I see the answer to my question in your link.

Debunked? Debunked because the WaPo only collects info on shooting? Interesting that the WaPo is now adjusting those numbers since the riots have begun to redefine what unarmed means. Media overlords indeed...I would be interested to see what “new facts emerged”. Did a gun the suspect was holding turn out to be fake? That’s considered “unarmed” by the WaPo. As far as where I’ve gathered my numbers here: https://www.chicagotribune.com/opinion/commentary/chi-fact-checker-police-killings-20150110-story.html https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/cpp15.pdf

Insulting them? I love them! I was just trying to get a grasp on the seemingly duplicitous nature of your post. And yes, of course I’ve been accused of being a racist cop...for the sole reason that I’m white and I’m a cop. The same way that you are doing directly and indirectly. I attempted to educate those people in the same way I am trying to educate you...by engaging in dialogue and showing them that I’m not racist, and neither are the overwhelming majority of my law enforcement brethren. It’s funny that almost every time I had similar discussions with minorities I’ve gotten much less vitriol than I have from you. I also got a much more well thought out response to why it is they they feel/felt the way to do/did. And, I’ve addressed every single one of your “points”. You just don’t like my responses, and keep replying with “but, they feel this way...” or some other such nonsense. As if feelings matter more than actual fact. As far as the protesters, protest. No issue. My issue lies with the mob mentality where dissenting voices are shouted down and people are expected to blindly follow the narratives spoonfed to them by their media and political overlords. That is why I initially responded to your post. Ive repeatedly acknowledged that unarmed black people have died at the hands of law enforcement officers. You keep saying that, and I keep acknowledging it. 1 is “too many” and things can certainly get better. My point is that there are so few of these incidents that it does not go anywhere near showing that there is systemic racism in law enforcement. Chauvin is not an example of cops - including your relatives, including me (despite your nasty - yet not unsurprising - attempt at intimating that I’m a racist) and including those cops that are getting bottles of urine, bleach, and burning fuel thrown on them or at them. PS if you believe that racist cops only existed in the south during the 60s, you need to go read a history book.

My tone? Seriously? I’m sorry I hurt your feelings too I guess. However, I appreciate the rest of your post. Interesting that you aren’t willing to further discuss the evidence you provided, but That’s the country we live in. I’m not trolling. I’m open to discussion / debate. I haven’t called anyone names. I’ve been respectful ( as far as I can tell). My only crime has been going against the flow of the majority in this thread. I haven’t read through all of your links yet, but I will agree that there are portions of the larger CJ system that disproportionately effects minorities. I’ve seen with my own two eyes how poor suspects convicted of crimes tend to get much harsher penalties than do suspects with more money. Poor suspects are often stuck with an over loaded public defender bent on clearing his docket, while more well to do suspects can afford a private attorney that is willing to devote time to actually defend them. Those private attorneys also have personal relationships with judges (most of whom were also private attorneys before being judges) and those relationships can lead to lighter sentences, it seems to me. We all know that minorities tend to have a lower overall income than whites. This is where I think the conversation needs to start. Why is this? In my view, lower income tends towards a higher probability of criminal behavior. A higher probability of criminal behavior would seem to mean a higher probability of search and arrest.

So cops during your grandfathers and uncles time are now the model? Those were the racist cops from the Jim Crow era that you referenced earlier in your argument that centered around the belief that “cops were racist 60 years ago, so they have to be racist now”. Which is it? Or is everything just subjective belief? These are just rhetorical questions for you to ponder.

Holy crap! He’s leaving like “so the mob isn’t on my side?”

Ok. So no evidence of systemic racism. I gave you evidence that directly refutes the idea that blacks are even contacted more by law enforcement. I gave you direct evidence that blacks commit more violent crime than other races. I gave you direct evidence that this boogeyman that you keep referencing of unarmed black men getting gunned down on the street does not actually exist. And, you have nothing. Got it. Keep marching! Night night!

Hell, I’ll take almost any evidence. Just so long as it isnt based solely on the color of ones skin. Do you have any evidence? You are making the claim that it exists. In 2015, there were 53,469,300 law enforcement - civilian contacts which is 21.1% of the total population. Whites were contacted 37,334,200 times, which is 22.7% of the white population. Blacks were contacted 6,146,600 times, which is 19.8% of the black population. So, white people are more likely to be contacted by police. I’ve already quoted the statistics for unarmed law enforcement deaths. Nine unarmed black people were killed last year. 7 were actually attacking the officer, grabbing for the officers gun, or trying to run the officer over with a vehicle. 2 officers were criminally charged. For kicks and giggles, let’s say that the number of law enforcement citizen contacts was approximately the same in 2019 as it was in 2015. Out of 6,146,600 contacts, 9 unarmed black people were killed. That equates to .00014642% of the time that a law enforcement officer contacts a black man, he will die as an unarmed (as defined by WaPo) suspect. Systematic racism? Show me. Again, it’s anecdotal and hurt feelings aka mostly “I’m black and I think the cops pulled me over just cuz I’m black and I don’t appreciate that”. As far as Chauvin goes specifically, I have no idea. Maybe he’s a racist. Maybe he’s just a piece of *****? Either way, there’s no evidence of systemic racism in LE.

I believe that is the real discussion that needs to be held, or at least the main one. Law enforcement can be better, and it will continue to get better. But, it needs support. From the leaders of cities and states... but mostly from regular people. I could get cussed at all day long, called every name in the book... but having a random person come up and say “thank you” makes it all worth it, and washes all of the previous frustrations away.

Yeah. I responded with “hurt feelings and anecdotes” as evidence of systematic racism in law enforcement. To which you responded that the visual of Chauvin kneeling on Floyd’s neck is not anecdotal.. therefore you were saying it is actual evidence of racism. There isn’t any evidence of racism, yet, but it is OK that the masses use it as evidence to point to systematic racism in law enforcement? Do you see where you’ve been hoodwinked yet?

No political bone. From 2004 to 2013, 511 cops were killed in felonious incidents. There were 540 total offenders, 232 of which were black. Er go, 43% of the offenders were black. During the same time period, the black population is approximately 13%. 13% of the population committing 43% of the crimes. That means nothing to you?

You were the one that used the Floyd case as evidence of systematic racism is law enforcement. I was asking what evidence you have of that. Cops aren’t being scapegoated? Bricks are being targeted at rogue cops only? Molotov cocktails are launched only at unfit cops? The cops being spit on and cursed at, those are the rogue cops? The politicians, athletes, Hollywood elite are all referencing “systemic racism” in law enforcement. But you are saying it’s only about rogue cops? I’ll get on board with you, but all this mess over a very small percentage of rogue cops? We can agree that there are bad cops. I’ve worked with them. I’ve arrested them. The vast, vast majority of cops are good, selfless, and often heroic people. They are not systematically racist. And evidence from history that shows they used to be is totally irrelevant to today. The killing of unarmed suspects has dropped year after year. Use of control is down. Law enforcement has never been better than they are today... yet, there are cries of “burn it down” and “ defund the police”. And mayors are actually doing it! How are cops going to have better training, hire better candidates, get better access to less lethal tools when cities are cutting hundreds of millions of dollars from the budget? How on Earth does that make sense? If city leaders truly believe the problem lies with the police, and their response is to make drastic cuts to their budgets? You aren’t punishing the cops. You are punishing those that are going to get 250 million less of service. BTW- the thin blue line isn’t a metaphor for cops protecting bad cops. The thin blue line is the line of cops protecting you and I from the darkness and anarchy that would exist without them.

Oh no, I got that. It was just totally irrelevant to the black and white (no pun intended) statistics that a cop is more likely to die at the hands of a black suspect, than an unarmed black suspect is to die at the hands of a cop. I’m talking rate. I’m not saying merely more. That’s where Mr Remedial Math got my statement wrong. Nine unarmed black men died last year. Nine. Seven of those involved suspects actively fighting the officer, or using vehicles as weapons. Keep marching and destroying the country over a made up narrative.

As I’ve set them up? They are objective statistics. I just said them. They are in black and white. Not surprised you aren’t willing to discuss them.

Kudos on the non-sequitur.

Educate me.

Yes, George Floyd was a horrible situation. Where is the evidence that it was racially based? Got any? Maybe it was an example of a criminal cop? You know what? They exist! They aren’t the boogeyman. The boogeyman is the BS narrative that there is systematic racism in police. That’s what you lemmings are marching on. Weird that cops are killed at a MUCH higher rate than unarmed blacks are killed by police. Weird that black men comprise 6% of the population but comprise over 40% of the perpetrators of violent crime. Where was the marching when a friend of mine was murdered by a black suspect? He stopped out to check on a disabled motorist, and was shot and killed as he got out of his car. Cops are systematically hunting and killing black people? Garbage. It just isn’t true. Again, if you want to have a discussion about those things that have contributed to the environment where black suspects are committing violent crimes at exponentially higher rates than all other races, let’s do it. Let’s talk about the legislators and leaders in those black communities that have allowed that to happen under their watch for DECADES. I doubt you will want to have that discussion, though. It’s so much easier to scapegoat the police. That’s what the political leaders are doing, too. Keep following. It’s a great strategy... until you reach the precipice of that cliff.

Nope. The only thing that concerns me is the gaggle of lemmings following each other right off of the cliff based on a totally false narrative comprised of anecdotes and hurt feelings. If you want to fix the systemic issues that have oppressed minorities, protest those who implement those policies and have done so for decades.

Yeah, but I don’t care what the NFL thinks. Just like I don’t care what the mob thinks. The NFL apparently does. I suspect they, along with every other business pandering to the mob, will feel the impact of said pandering when Americans with more than a pile of mashed potatoes between their ears start talking with their wallets. I care what objective facts say. Objective facts say: boogeyman. BOO!

But... they weren’t. It’s a boogeyman.