Doc
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Then you must have wiped any memory of T.O giving up on routes, not fighting for the ball, not breaking up interceptions, and so on? You act like T.O. is so freakin' awesome but nobody wants the guy.
You must have missed Evans doing the same things. How else can one explain his stats?
Suffice it to say that no one was happy with AVP's offense, or Trent's QB play.
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Responding to such absurdity is not worth responding to. If the location of Buffalo is such a handicap then how did Polian do such a masterful job when he worked in the western NY?
Polian joined the Bills in August 1984 and was promoted to GM in December of 1985. The Bills drafted Kelly (who initially said he'd never play for Buffalo) in 1983, before Polian was with the club. The team had the first pick in the draft and each round in 1985, and got Bruce, Reich, and Reed, before Polian was GM. They were the 2nd worst team in 1985. Now Polian did a good job of drafting overall, but those were 4 huge pieces for the Bills, before he'd even become GM, and 3 of those guys are HOF'ers/HOF-worthy, while Reich probably could have had a really good career with another club. And it would have been "masterful" had the Bills managed to win a SB.
But what Polian was able to do with the late 80's/early 90's Bills, has no bearing on Buffalo being an undesirable place for coaches and players to want to play, because of the climate, economy, market size, etc. And back then, there was no CBA and no UFA so players didn't have much of a choice once drafted by a club. Green Bay was also a place no one wanted to play, for the same reasons.
The funny thing about Polian is that when he was hired as GM of the Bills in December of 1985, many thought it was business as usual and an "inside move." Sounds familiar.
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Here's proof:
First 9 games Owens had 1 TD receiving. One.
Against division rivals Owens had 1 TD.
This doesn't scream "clutch" to me. We already have plenty of receivers that can score once in ten games.
That's your proof? Hate to break it to you, but NO ONE scored much during the season. TO had 6 total TD's and Evans had 7 (2 were in a whipping at Tennessee). Again TO can't throw the ball to himself, or block for the QB, or design plays. And while he's not the same receiver he was even just 5 years ago, the WR corps would be much improved over what it is now.
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and what was it with the future HOFer? dynamic?
Compared to what it would have been without him, yes.
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Seems to fit the decision-makers stated agenda of getting younger.
True. I doubt they want him back and I doubt he wants to be back. So all we can hope for is that the younger WR's step up.
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Most of those stats were racked up in garbage time. The T.O. I remember last year would not even try for a ball that wasn't dropped into his hands, dropped it half the time if it did hit him in the hands, wouldn't bother to break up an interception, and generally took plays off. Screw the stats. Look at the player. If this is the kind of WR you think makes a team better then you don't know much about football.
Considering the Bills' offense was garbage, period, sure most of his stats were in "garbage time." Too bad I'll require some proof of that statement, much less the other stuff. I didn't exactly see any other WR busting his ass out there last year.
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And you think adding a once-famous washed up player is the answer? I'll take my chances with who's on the roster.
He was so washed-up, he caught 55 passes for 829 yards and scored 6 TD's to lead all Bills receivers last year, in one of the worst Bills offenses I can recall. The only thing he "proved" last year is that he can't throw the ball to himself.
last year, last year, last year. are you serious, how many wins did taking the double team off lee evans equate to? absolutely seven, however it did keep all the promising wrs off the field, making them all virtually unknowns today also retarding their development..........in effect last years signing of terrell owens set back the development of the Buffalo Bills as a TEAM..Yeah, having a 2nd year player coming off an ACL injury and a 2nd year 7th round pick playing opposite Evans, with those QB's, really would have been a great offense to behold.
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I know I was affraid it was going to be career ending. Man Medicine has come a long long way.
More likely, the reports of him suffering clean breaks to the tibia and fibula, and no other structural, vascular, or nerve damage, were correct. Cleanly broken bone can heal back to original strength, whereas it's much harder with comminuted (multiple fractures). And other structural damage to tendons, ligaments, arteries, veins, or nerves only makes things worse.
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Anyone who isn't frightened by the Bills' WR corpse (sic) needs their head examined. I have as high hopes as the next guy, but none of the guys outside of Evans have proven anything. And TO led the Bills in receiving last year.
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If there was a championship for twisting and distorting facts and history you would be triumphantly lifting the trophy. Bill Polian is a HOF GM who had a historical run for the Bills. Assembling teams which got to the SB in four consecutive years will probably never again be matched. (Your frequently changing explanation for Ralph's disasterous decision to fire Polian is now that he gave out some bad contracts. Laughable, purely laughable. The explanation for his dismissal is very simple. The owner sided with Litton, his finance man, when it came to one staying and the other leaving.
Your explanation about the reason why Polian left his position with Carolina is another one of your creative distortions. Polian took an expansion team and got it into the championship game in its second year. Compare that to the Bills who probably won't get into the playoffs for nearly a generation. The reason why Polian left Carolina is very simple. The owner didn't want an organization structure where a strongman GM thoroughly dominated the football operation. It was simply a philosophical difference. The owner has the right to run the organization the way he wants to. There was no rancor in BP's departure. The same scenario played out in New England where Bill Parcells wanted to have a larger say in running the football operation than the owner, Robert Kraft, wanted to give him. It was a philosophical difference in which the owner has the final say on how to structure his organization. Just like BP moving on Parcells moved on.
Ralph for a long time has been very predictable. When you make decisions such as hiring an ill-equipped Levy to take over your football operations and dismiss one of the best GMs in the history of the NFL the outcomes are very predictable. With Ralph you don't need a crystal ball. Just keep your eyes open and see what is in plain sight.
Again John, Polian was going to get fired eventually because his teams lost 4 SB's AND because he was an !@#$, to go along with overpaying mediocre talent (meaning his clashes with LittMAN were at least partly of his own doing, believe it or don't). Why do you think he left the Panthers after just 3 years (the team went 7-9 his last year, BTW)? Because he realized Kerry Collins, who he drafted 5th overall in 1995, wasn't going to get it done? Because he rubbed Panthers owner Jerry Richardson the wrong way? Is Richardson "a bad owner" because he got rid of Polian? Again, if only the Bills had tanked in 1997 and gotten the chance to draft Manning, things would have been vastly different.
As we saw this past off-season, top coaches don't want to coach in Buffalo, and it has nothing to do with the owner. Ralph's bad decisions have involved hiring Marv and then Brandon, but that was 4 years. The TD hire seemed to be a great move at the time, but didn't pan-out. To laughably say "it was a bad move by a bad owner because it didn't work out" is silly.
My (perpetual) advice to you, John, is to get over Ralph firing Polian. As well as your irrational hatred of Ralph. Without him, the Bills would have been gone decades ago. If you want to blame anything, blame Buffalo for being Buffalo.
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How many of those TD's and yards came at clutch moments and how many came in garbage time? T.O. was a beast...when nothing was at stake.
PTR
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you've been saying the Putz are finished for how many years now?
They've been finished winning SB's for years now, George.
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Colt Brennan tore-it-up a few off-seasons ago.
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There you go again. Making a claim on something I never said. Go back and read some of my prior postings. The point I made is of course the clueless owner is not going to deleberately make bad decisions for the organization. He indisputably has made a number of very bad decisions simply because he is inept. Look at the record.
The hiring of TD was widely hailed, because of TD's work with the Steelers. Hiring Marv and then Brandon I'll grant you were bad moves. But you seem to like Nix and Gailey. If they fail, is it because of Ralph?
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Is it possible TO would turn us down if we offered??? Not saying he would, but I think it is reasonable to think he may turn us down (in which case, we would probably never hear @ it). If it were in the off-season, he may say..."I'll wait to see if a better offer comes around". I'm not saying, I'm just sayin'...
I also doubt he'd want to return. But the Bills could use him.
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Michael Roos signed for 43M over 6 years just two years ago. David Diehl signed a 6 year 31M contract just after Roos. Of course Jordan Gross signed a mega deal, so what exactly is market value for a LOT? It's not like there are a lot of top LOT's getting re-signed. The Skins have leverage now because they're playing the guy at ROT anyway. That position doesn't necessitate as big a contract.
Two years ago is two years ago. Last year players got $10M/year. And if both sides are talking contract, Brown won't care that they're playing him at RT. He's been a LT all his career and will want to be paid at that position. If the Redskins are just planning on keeping him for a year, thinking they have a chance to win it all this year, that's a different story and a waste of picks and money.
Apparently teams no longer have budgets in years without a cap. You've repeatedly said the Redskins have a poor track record. Well, not with Mike Shanahan at HC and GM Bruce Allen. Go ahead and malign those two, neither are perfect, but they've got a much better track record than Buddy Nix and Chan Gailey. They have a new regime, much like the Bills, so they should get the benefit of the doubt like you're providing for Buffalo's brain trust, right?You made it sound like the Saints were close to the salary cap. I was saying that $3.6M in insurance for a $13M QB is worth it, if he's as good as you're claiming.
Randy Moss was moved for a 4th. I guess it was because no one was interested in him, right? Teams don't trade top LOT's, unless they've got depth there or they're the Buffalo Bills and need so save face and money when a player is "difficult."Moss also said that he'd only play for the Patriots. I already said that Brown probably told the Saints he wouldn't play for Buffalo. That is, IF the Bills were interested in him.
What if those guys require a 4th round pick? Does that make them not worth it because the asking price is low? All three of those guys will probably need a new contract, and at least a 3rd/4th rounder. And I don't see the Bills in the business of re-signing someone to a big contract, nor giving up draft picks. After all, they're building through the draft and those 3rd of 4th rounders are low-cost roster options.
I think the whole "building through the draft" thing is overplayed. What they probably meant is that they're going with younger players. Not trading for 29 year old players coming off injury. And I wouldn't expect those players to go for less than a 3rd rounder, if even that low.
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Keep laughing. Who's saying that Brown is demanding 9-10M per? You are.
It's called "the market rate for Pro Bowl LT's." The Redskins either will give him a contract averaging about $10M/year, or let him play under his tender and then make a decision. I can only surmise that they feel this is their year to win a SB.
The Saints had multiple FA's that they re-signed and had a serviceable young OT in Bushrod. Their hierarchy chose to spend money on re-signing Brees, MLB Vilma and 1st team All-Pro G Jahri Evans. They, like everyone, had to make a choice with their money. Oh, and BTW they've got Marcus Colston coming up as well. Boy are they crazy for not re-signing a guy at a position they had depth at.First of all, there is no cap this year. Second of all, all they needed to do was have him play for the year under his $3.6M tender, at worst as insurance. They didn't want to do that. And no one else except for the Redskins, who have had a track record of failing miserably with these high priced/profile moves, was willing to make a deal for him, otherwise he wouldn't have been moved for just a 3rd, much less a 4th, rounder.
And for the record, perhaps teams did express interest and NO chose the Redskins' offer. You're making a ton of assumptions to support a weak point in defense of a moribund NFL franchise that doesn't have ONE proven NFL OT. If that's your argument, why didn't OAK re-sign Cornell Green?Again, when a guy who was/is a Pro Bowl LT gets moved for a 3rd or 4th rounder, it's obvious not that many people were interested in him. As for the Raiders, I couldn't care less about what they do.
The Buffalo Bills will not make a trade for any of the group you mentioned: Gaither, McNeill, or Donald Penn. And you will be back to say they weren't worth it. Well, come September when Bell, Meredith, and Wang are struggling, you'll be back to say it was a rebuilding year anyway.It's hard to say whether Gaither, McNeill, or Penn would be "worth" huge contracts. I've heard Gaither has a poor work ethic and there have been suggestions that McNeill does as well. Penn I don't know. But I'd much rather "take a flyer" on those guys, who aren't 29 and coming off a missed season.
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There is no doubt that Polian was a profane person. But that wasn't the primary reason he got fired. The most substative reason why he got fired was that Polian was constantly clashing with Litton, Wilson's finance person in the organization. The situation was untenable. One of them had to go. The owner went with his Detroit finance person instead of the football person.
Wilson's daughter worked in the scouting department. Do you think Polian only cursed at her? Wild Bill was tough on a lot of people. John Butler, at the time, was one of his top scouts. He also was very irritated with the abusive style of Polian. That was his style. The bottom line is that goofball owner fired one of the best GMs in the history of the game because he preferred keeping his finance person who was good at keeping his costs down.
There was no salary cap at the time and Ralph was being sorely outspent by the larger, higher revenue teams. But Polian had a hand in things, giving bad deals to average guys like Kelso and Wright (off the top of my head). If the salary cap had existed years before, things might have turned out different. Or not. Hence the reason I mentioned Carolina and Polian leaving a sinking ship. Which he'll do with the Colts when it's time.
Getting into four consecutive SBs while he was the GM surely is better than not even getting into the playoffs for a decade straight and still counting. Don't you think?I doubt Ralph had a crystal ball back then. If he did, he might have had the Bills totally tank the 1997 season, so they could draft Manning in 1998.
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Jammal Brown may have been injured in 2009, but he represents a player who's performed at a high level. Bell, Meredith, Wang, Ramsey, Watkins, and Green have never done that. People charge that it's wrong to take a flyer on a former All-Pro. Well, I'd rather surrender a 4th and have it go wrong than bank on unproven talent found on the clearance rack that could significantly impact the entire offense all season. And that's precisely what happened in 2009. Funny how history repeats itself with this team.
LOL! You'd rather trade a pick and pay a guy upwards of $9-10M/year, or let him walk in a year, so you can "take a flyer" on him? Why didn't the Saints "take a flyer" on him for $3.6M for the year, at worst as insurance? Why hasn't anyone else jumped into the fray?
You want to talk about history repeating itself, say that about the Redskins, if anyone.
Thurman, you're an excellent poster and I want to comment on a few.Of course neither of us know if Marcus McNeill will be moved by San Diego but consider this. The rhetoric from both sides has escalated to full out war. Egos are at stake, people are seriously pissed off and both sides claim that they will NOT back down. Look at Smith's remarks about McNeill and Vincent Jackson.
"We lost a couple of great players today, and it hurts. We are trying to build a championship team, and losing the services of both Vincent and Marcus just made that more difficult — but not impossible. In due time, coach (Norv) Turner will name two new starters. We will rally as a team, compete and try to win as many games as we can."
But actions speak louder than words. Because both players didn't sign by the June 15th deadline, Smith spitefully reduced their contract offers to $2.5 million below their tenders. And this is action was not required. It was optional, and AJ Smith took the option of reducing their compensation for 2010 by about two thirds. Smith also acquired OT Tra Thomas and WR Josh Reed as insurance for McNeill and Jackson, both of whom have said they will skip mandatory minicamp and hold out this year.
Yes, this could be posturing on both sides, but the fact that replacement players have been acquired as insurance, that substantial money has been taken off the table, and that all sides are ratcheting up the tough talk leads me to believe that there is a chance that McNeill will never play for the Chargers again.
Well, this might be a criticism of semantics, but I disagree that Ozzie Newsome sets the market price.
Unless someone has the market cornered, they don't set the market price. Ozzie only sets his selling price. If he is asking for more than the market price, then he's ignoring the market price, not setting it.
We know what Washington paid for Jammal Brown. We know Jared Gaither could probably still be had (the Ravens acquired him with a 5th rounder in the supplemental draft). We know Flozell Adams is still unsigned and available. It's possible Marcus McNeill will be made available in a trade. So I disagree with the statement that Ozzie sets the market price. Small point maybe, but there it is.
There are 3 good LT's who have no signed their RFA tenders: Gaither, McNeill, and Donald Penn. Those situations are geting uglier by the minute. If I were Nix, I'd wait a little longer and then swoop-in.
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Link
From Peter King;
The call was awful. But in all sports, when hugely controversial calls are made -- the Tuck Rule call by Walt Coleman in the Raiders-Patriots playoff game nine years ago, the Jim Joyce ruination-of-the-perfect-game this month -- at least we know what the call is. Here, millions of people staring at TVs around the world are still asking, "What's the call?''
You could feel it in the bowels of Ellis Park after the game. Don't make a big stir over this. It's soccer. Nothing you can do it about it. It's just the way it is.
Why? Why is this just blindly accepted? FIFA uses a referee -- in a game of vital importance in determining who moves on in the biggest tournament in any sport in the world -- whose highest previous assignment was the African Cup. That's got to be the equivalent of a Mid-American Conference ref being assigned the Super Bowl.
Coaches coach for four years to get to the World Cup. Players train for four years to get to the World Cup. And they have their fate decided by some wordless man handed an assignment he had no business having. But as important: Just what is this governing body FIFA, with the world watching its signature event, doing when it doesn't mandate an explanation from the referee about what he called that determined the outcome of a game?
I blame Coulibaly. But FIFA deserves equal blame, for putting a system in place that allows incompetent officiating to skate free. So what if we never see this official again? The damage is done. He was in far over his head, and he blew the call that decided the game. He can disappear now, and in all nations but America, the story will blow over. Nice racket you've got going, FIFA.
My fervent hope is America won't let FIFA forget about this -- that you, the readers and followers of this sport and the viewers of this sacred game -- will rise up and pound FIFA with protests. Write to FIFA president Sepp Blatter. Demand accountability. You've invested your time and energy, and you've cheated your boss today by sneaking over to the lounge where you work to watch this very important event in your life, and you've come away feeling angry and empty. Which you should.
So don't just sit there. Do something. Write to Blatter. Tell him you want accountability. Here's the address:
Sepp Blatter
FIFA
Box 85
8030 Zurich, Switzerland
Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/socc...n#ixzz0rP5DN173
A soccer ref doesn't have to cite the rule that was violated? Well that makes fixing games a lot easier. This moron could take a bribe and make a call that costs a game and then never have to explain what rule was broken. They may keep him out of the rest of the cup games but the damage has been done.
What a joke.
I agree with you that this was game-fixing. It was not the referee being "in over his head" as King suggested. Shameful on the ref's part, and shameful on FIFA's part.
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Have we got LTs? Absolutely. Have we got even one LT who can reasonably be expected to perform in, say, the top 80% of LTs in the league? No. We just don't. Could it happen? Sure, guys occasionally have huge unpredictable leaps upward, it happens. It's just extremely rare. If you wanna kid yourself that Bell is likely to be one of those guys, go ahead, be my guest.
"Top 80% of LT's?" That's a top-6 LT. That's expecting a lot. And who said you need a top-6 LT to succeed?
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I live in VA and hate the Redskins but your analysis is right on!! One of the smartest thing I have read on this board in many years. One could argue that losing (FIRING) Bill Polian was one of the worst sports decisions in history. Worse than the RedSox getting rid of Babe Ruth. Why? How long was Babe Ruth around for? How many years/decades has Bill Polian been winning? Which job is more difficult?? To be a superstar and perform as a player OR to build championships and lead organizations to Super Bowls?? Look at Bill's track records....After taking us to 4 Super Bowls he went on to Carolina and the Colts. Took Carolina to NFC Champs in 2nd year as expansion team, Then built the Colts and of course us. Gettting rid of Polian would be worse than getting rid of Peyton Manning but .....
We have one wining season in 10 years. Pathetic! One could also argue we might be better off as an expansion team with Bill Polian at the helm than where we are now. Ralph Wilson has a history of making PATHETIC decisions. IF we really have 4 losing decades out of 5, with the one being Polian at the helm than I am utterly disgusted. Don't believe the hype!!!!!!!! With that said I am optimistic we are on a good track now but who knows what the future holds with the ages of Nix and Wilson. Good times! Go Bills!
I will ALWAYS be a Bills fan but I think we need to all keep our eyes open to reality and the facts.
Polian forced Ralph's hand. You don't become increasingly belligerent and call the owner's daughter the "C" word at a party and get away with it. And those 4 SB losing teams didn't help matters any. How long did you think Polian would have been around anyway? He left the Panthers after just a couple seasons.
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I agree that this was not in any way, shape, or form, a pick to sell tickets. And I'd bet the sale of season tix in the days following his selection didn't change much, if at all. Not that I think Ralph has any real say in the draft picks other than "I agree," or that he "meddles," until he's had enough with his GM's and is getting ready to fire them.
White House: Whole country benefits when Prez golfs
in Politics, Polls, and Pundits
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Bingo. Although the word I'd use is "hypocrisy."