Ghost of BiB

Argh...I shall make pirate noises.

You just can't help yourself, can you?

Hey, back off. There's some great food in Little Havana.

Don't need to Google. He has some common sense. Better than many.

I think this could be the death chant for Northwest Airlines. Fuel costs have pushed them over the top. No real credit. Maybe not, but another one could bite the dust. Pilots agreed to negotiate, mechanics union says no.

Well, that's the way we've been taught to think. Bush Bad. TV is telling us what to do. Like I said before, and I really think people should pay attention, unless they just want to mindlessly B word...people have posted in these threads with first hand knowledge of what this stuff is like, now multiply it by ten for a variety of reasons. They get blown off for someone munching chicken wings to have an opinion. Your right, everyone has an opinion, but it's disturbing just the same that people who have done stuff like this are ignored so you can preach. Some of y'all have watched way to much 24, or whatever TV show you know for a fact tells you and explains how things in the real world work. Stroke yourselves hard, you are America.

Don't be. I'm ashamed of some of them, but for every soundbite our stupid worthless out of control excuse for a media chooses to air, there are 20 more that they pass up, because they might contradict. Now it's in our own country. I've heard so much about media agendas with regards to many things. Well, now you have a chance to view what these people are all about. It's called, making money. Reports that show success take a back seat to those that show trouble. Trouble and conflict attract more people to the TV than happy stories. You're watching and commenting like you are, many of you because you also stop traffic to look at a car wreck, or even a flat tire. Don't think networks aren't aware of that. Neither are other countries around the world. Rest assured that people besides us are watching CNN and FOX. Their leaders are taking notes, and their masses are saying "America Can't Help Themselves". Their media is doing the same. Hey, guess what? Things are bad. They won't get fixed in 5 friggen days. They may not be fixed for years, if ever. GET away from the TV, have a beer, or a martini. Get a grip. Try to figure out how to get the nfl.com gamelink to come up (one has to search the site hard, and be crafty to find a way not to pay for it).

It's becoming interesting that anyone posting who has had experience in disaster response is basically saying one thing, while those that don't are saying another. Wonder where this will lead?

Good shot. I hope they meet up again so Vladmir can wear it and dance in front of him going "nah nah" like Cartman.

Yeah, what he said.

Would you like to provide the organizational diagrams that explain and show this line of communication in an emergency response situation under the NRP and the Incident Command System? I'd like to see it, as this is news to me.

Actually, combating WMD. A lot of terror-WMD related planning from the consequence management aspect is exactly the same. The events in NO are very similar to what one would expect from a terrorist WMD attack, except worse. Many of the same response packages that would have been energized for a nuclear bomb in the superdome are the same ones being activated now. As I've tried to point out a dozen times in various threads for anyone willing to listen, there are a lot of moving pieces to this. A lot of those pieces broke down, starting with the City Government before the storm ever hit. Now, no matter what gets said everyone is casting stones and calling blame, mostly on the Federal Response when they have ABSOLUTELY NO FRIGGING IDEA WHAT THAT RESPONSE IS OR WHAT IT IS SUPPOSED TO BE!!! There, did I say it loud enough this time? Turn off the TV and get ready for the football game. People aren't doing themselves any favors in a message board version of inner city anarchy.

Keesler is in bad shape. They have just recently managed to bulldoze a runway open, and everything is VFR. No navaids of any kind. Most of the place is under 2 feet of mud.

That is a pretty rough thing to say. As was mentioned, just about no one here has the first clue about what is happening or what is supposed to happen. A few that do have tried to explain it somewhat, but get over ridden by "Bush Bad". There are people involved in this that have a LOT of compassion who are having to make some pretty tough choices right now. Like I said elsewhere, maybe everyone needs to walk away from the TV for a while.

Can I pick?

I think that as soon as they can get established, the military needs to take total control as a single point of contact for everyone. The civilian ICS has apparently broken down there, and the DoD is best equipped to get as much as can be gotten under control under control.

Actually, he's right. The president can suspend posse comitatus during a state of emergency. There are also pretty liberal interpretations of what is law enforcement, and what isn't. I would personally prefer not to see title 10 forces mixed up in anything that involves shooting people. The news networks are doing enough damage as it is.

That is probably the most intelligent thing I've seen you write in all your time here. I don't think people have much comprehension of what the conditions are like for those trying to get in and help. An aviation battalion out of this area is flying in as we speak. A friend of mine is one of the pilots. They will be working out of the NO naval air station.

I have a pretty good feeling that those running around shooting stuff viewed the storm not as a disaster, but as an opportunity. Many of these people are "survivors". NO has had a lot of crime issues for several years, and for whatever reason hasn't really been able to address them. I'll be very interested in reading NO's hurricane evacuation plan. I plan to do that next week. I went through a total evacuation of Savannah, GA. For those who could not get out on their own, all available transportation was mustered, and thousands were evacuated inland to locations that had pre-made agreements to accept them. Anyone who wanted to go, did, and probably less than 10% remained behind. As callous and cruel as it sounds, all these disaster plans have to account for a percentage of casualties. National level response plans are geared to mid to long term recovery and support operations. There is a first responder element to them, but that effort by design isn't hitting the ground for up to 96 hours. It is the responsibility of local and state government to initiate the first response. Federal forces phase in to augment and to relieve them. Local and state governments are designed for immediate response - they are not expected to have much in the way of mobile hospitals or mass shelters. That's where the federal government steps in. It takes a while for that response to take place, because the assets being mobilized are huge and cumbersome, and take a while to deploy. A large bul of these come from the DoD and are actually pre-defined as capabilities packages. FEMA is the lead agency in a disaster such as this. FEMA will make the initial evaluations or predictions, and submit to the DoD what capabilities they will need, where they think they will come up short. The DoD looks at the geographic region (one of four) and starts alerting the applicable units that possess those capabilities. There are thousands upon thousand of people going into action as we speak. This is going to be a long term thing. For anyone who even takes 10 minutes to trying to understand the amount of effort here, and the obstacles that have to be overcome to exert that effort, the response to this is fantastic. People need to step away from the sensationalist talking heads for a while. Some people are going to be or have been wrote off. You think those decisions are easy to make? It would be a lot better for everyone's mental state if FOX and CNN just shut up, and the armchair QB's around here went back to discussing running backs. If you're not part of the solution, you are generally part of the problem. Even as it extends to message boards. Perceptions can carry over into other aspects of life and to things beyond hurrican Katrina. Blaming folks as incompetent every time a news channel shows someone sitting in a waterlogged street is not going to help. You are seeing a microcosym of the overall situation. Don't forget that several thousand square miles have been affected. There are peple in Alabama and Mississippi that need help just as badly as those in the city. Initial, immediate resources are spread pretty thin. I personally think that it is almost criminal that so many thousands remained in a city below seal level with a CAT 5 hurricane bearing down. A lot of it is personal ignorance and stupidity, but like I said, I'll be interested in reading the plan. I can't believe that there were no means available to get those people out. Federal response plans are not geared to going in and "rescuing" tens of thousands of people who aren't supposed to be there. Not unless they can be rescued days after the fact. One can blame the Federal Government for the levee situation if they want, but that has nothing whatsoever to do with the response. Different office. I wonder how many here have a good plan to mobilize 25,000 troops, a few hundred thousand tons of supplies and equipment, get them moved hundreds or thousands of miles into an area with no roads or communications that in many spots is underwater in a span of 12 hours or so? If you have one, please call FEMA.

Defense Department alerts and mobilizations for the storm began well before the storm hit. You are still going to get a lot of feedback along the lines of not already being there as the eyewall passed, so no one is doing their job. I think one of the Katrina responses for most people at this point would be. 1. Look at TV. 2. Walk away.

Not the masses, anyway.

This is bordering on really, really stupid from a lot of people who are truly, truly clueless. This isn't the first time major cities have been evacuated for a major hurricane. Out of all of them, as far as I know that's the only one under sea level. When a city bus is shown under water, it means it didn't take a bunch of people somewhere. It got left, parked. Take them where? Who cares? People can live three days without food and water would have been easier to get to them on dryer land. When you want to blame government, remember that there are city and local governments too. Cross anyone's mind that NO wasn't managed too well? The spin is somehow that the federal government let them down. I still don't see how so. By law, and also common sense it's not a federal responsibility to have every city in America covered for every eventuality. That's what local and State governments are for. Yes, this is unprecedented, but also not hard to figure out.

I disagree. Oh, they will. They can always find it somewhere. They'll link it, too. Isn't the information age wonderful? You can have an opinion on the internet, and because someone read it, it becomes a fact!

Heh heh.....

FWIW, this is being thought about and considered.