oregonbbfan

Peters better be at the top of the list now. He is all Pro and will be talking big bucks if he gets his butt in camp. Buffalo signed him when nobody else would, gave him a new contract and will do it again. My big concern is: 1) he is out of shape or not completely healed. This will tell alot about his desire to stay the best at his position. 2) all the shifting around players around causes an injury to starting part of the line that didn't have to happen, i.e. Walker. I know injuries happen but exposing guys to changes cause confusion/errors that make risk higher. Then what kind of angst do we have for a player/agent who caused it. Get your butt into camp and the Bills will make it worth it!

First I'd like to say that there is no such thing as a former Buffalonian. We are all still Buffaloians that live elsewhere for whatever reason. As can be seen in my moniker, I now live (retired) in Oregon now ( same 4 seasons, less harsh winters) after working 42 years in California. I was born and grew up IN Bufffalo ( east side) , went to school on the west side at ( not far from the hit and run) Hutch Tech and graduated from ECTI before leaving for California on a vacation at the age of 21. I finished my BS at Long Beach State in California and worked in Aerospace and Medical Product Manufacturing where I retired. While it was fate that I landed in California, I never stopped being a Buffaloian. I grew up in Buffalo when you could go to any part of town at any hour of the day and not fear for your life. I loved Buffalo and was always proud of my roots just as Tim Russert was. I too went to War Memorial Stadium, even the stock car races before football at the Rockpile. I didn't know till recently that Tim's son Luke was named after Luke Easter. I still remember going to Offerman stadium and screaming LUUUUUUKE as loud as I could to root on the Bisons. I kept up with very football magazine, Shout, Direct TV and every Bills blog I could find. I still have Shaelens Hot dogs sent here with Webers mustard and pickle relish ( like Teds). I always wear my Bills garb when working around the house. So, even though I left many years ago, you can take a person out of Buffalo, but you'll never take Buffalo out of the person. Buffalo, as Tim so aptly put it is a good, down to earth blue collar town with good people who are fun loving, family loving and where we have our God given roots. I still miss the town even though it's not the same town, but the people ( family and still to this day my best friend) the food and yes, the Bills and Sabres are all good. In signing off, a word of advice. Just because a person hasn't been on the board a long time, or doesn't post alot, or is from another state, don't jump all over him or call them stupid or ridicule them, for they may know a little more than you but don't wish confrontation or are just more courteous. And , thanks for the topic, I have been wanting to say this for a long time.

Thanks Chris for confirming. http://buffalobills.com/news/news.jsp?news_id=6001 This draft will be very exciting and will require close attention because trades will trigger set up senarios. My bet is that there will be some late cards to the podium and teams trying to beat them to the podium. May be a little angst and trying to stick it to others too. Can't wait. Be on your toes Bills. Let's get this team over the hump and into the playoffs!

bytor, could you give me a short synopsis of what he said. I'm vacationing and can only get dial up at this condo. I only get 3 sec snipits every 2 minutes. Miss my DSL. Thanks

Or are all/most trades done (as stated Eagles ) done before the draft begins.

I know 15 minutes was too long but will 10 minutes be enough time to make important decisions that could effect your team for years. With the shorter time, will the GM's talk, prior to the draft, to other teams they are willing to work with? Do they put potential trades together with certain triggers needed to happen so all they need to do is call them and confirm authorization? Do they talk different senarios of trade ups/downs for choices or personnnel? With only ten minutes to trade you don't have time to talk to more than one or two at most and iron out the details and then make a pick if all doesn't work out. Does the Bills GM have many senarios mapped out for any eventuality and work it that way? With not notifying/discussing with others you don't know what their thoughts and response is and could take valuable time if it doesn't go as expected. I wonder if we will see missed picks due to less time and not working things out in advance. Any other thoughts on what the shorter times will or will not affect.

We all know that Marv is using consensus with DJ, his coaches and either Modrak or Guy to to make decisions on whom to acquire or draft. Who do you think is providing the best data to make decisions on players. Modrak-He has a talent pool in the thousands if he covers most of the Divsions levels and regions. He must look at stats and combine results, reports from scouts, watch and in some cases interview players and their coaches himself. He must then put all the data together, determine heart/desire and put a recommendation list on who this team should draft. I'm sure there is plenty more in his job description but I'm trying to keep it short. The recommendation along with other valuators must then make the biggest decision on whether that person who excells in college can make the jump and succeed in the NFL, especially on high choices. You cannot miss on a #4 overall ( M. Williams) or first day picks even though we all know the draft is a crap shoot. Guy- He has a lesser pool of talent to keep an eye on. Granted, Free Agency is a year round and dynamic ebb and flow of players. He must look at UFA, RFA, the waiver wire,rumored happenings, AFL, NFL Eupopa, Canadian and any player currently not on an NFL roster as well those on practice squads. The one advantage he has over Modak is players who have played in the NFL and he has more NFL data to work with. Again, this is a simplistic job description. Just because a player played on a playoff team doesn't mean he will succeed on our team in our system. ( Reyes, Bowen,). In general, both talent evaluators may be doing an adequate job but the final decision makers make them look good or bad. I feel TD in his infinite wisdom and desire to continuously be in the news showing his smarter than you attiude, made gambles rather than the safe, under the radar moves Marv makes. TD was an autocratic GM vs Marv the consensus maker. The last big variable is the coaches and I think we all agree that Marv is getting better feedback and recommendations for better decision making. The one constant we have is our scouting staffs for both are the same. If I had to make a guess on who is doing a better job, and it is a guess when you realize the variables ( autocratic vs consensus, coaching input) , Guy did a better when TD was here and Modrak is better now. I don't know why our FA's (last year) have not done well and I hope it changes this year. That may be due to a decision to fill depth with mostly 2nd tier FA's. Modrak doing a better job is good because Marv is holding to his word by building through the draft. Guy better be right on L. Walker and hopefully Tripplet comes around because we paid 1st tier dollars for them. Too many variables to make a pick? Just a gut feeling on my part. Any other variables? Your thoughts

I too agree with DAWG. He said it better than I did below, posted on 2/20/07 under the "teams using the tag " unfairly" topic. You must get something if you cannot sign the most valuable FA in the market. Good job DAWG. "Now for that greed and little loyalty, I say Marv made a large mistake. Marv should have said last year after the first tag, Nate come to camp and if we cannot hammer something out, I will tag you next year but you will be free to seek a trade or contract with anyone you wish and we will even reduce the compensation to 1 first , not the required 2. Just like TD did with Price. Tell Nate we want something for our efffort, risk and past salary. That way we get something for him instead of nothing like now. I'm not a TD fan but if he had a commodity that was top guy in FA, do you not think he would get something? And it would be fair to Nate because he goes where he wants, maybe a few less million but who's counting when we are talking $50+ million, I know, NATE. Marv gave his word and couldn't go back on it, but would it hurt for Nate to release Marv from his word to give something back to Buffalo since he knows we cannot match. Just a thought." Forum: The Stadium Wall · Post Preview: #918138 · Replies

The whole secret is good talent evaluators. These evaluators should both be scouts, coaches and management. Scouts can help make up a good draft board but the GM must be able to get consensus to determine value ( both financially and talentwise on the existing team also, ) and based on needs make good choices on whether to move up, down or get the best guy on his draft board. A management team who has a plan and sticks to it (unlike Donahoe ) and an owner who knows when to bud out or open the checkbook when necessary. When the above is in place, then go to drafting as many ( quantity) good players as possible until you have a good base. This process gets you to a higher win level faster and before they become free agents. Once that base is in place, then you go for the one or two quality pieces to take you over the top. Now you have a team with home grown quality and stars, free agent quality and a winning team. At the end of eaach year, a post appraisal should be looked at where your weaknesses are in scouting and decision making, and correct them. Hopefully Marv has the talent evaluators, the plan and influence over Ralph to make the right choices through our second draft. We cannot afford misses on picks or FA's and compete. Go Bills!

Last year were were impacted by the stupid NFL rule that a drafted player could not attend OTA's as long as there were still college exams at the drafted players school to be taken. In the case of Ellison and AY and a couple others , even though thay were done with their exams , had to wait and lost out on a lot of coaching. I think in the case of Youboty, these missed OTA's in addition to his mom's death really hurt him. I recall a couple players getting waivers on other teams but not us. Anyone know the reason for the rule and how to get the waiver? Which brings me to this year. Will the Bill's OTA schedule take this into account this year? Or, will we deal with it for the Ohio State, Oregon, other schools we draft players from that are affected by this rule? Anyone know about Ole Miss? I think it's important to get all rookies in asap to start learning the system. Your thoughts.

I agree, if you are going to give up a pick, trade up and get a player of impact. That's depends on who and where he is on our board. PS: Calvin is the only guy I go up for and it would be too much ( multiple) so I SWAP picks because it adds players. If no stomach, stay or trade down. We need more players, not less.

I agree, if you are going to give up a pick, trade up and get a player of impact. That's depends on who and where he is on our board.

If Marv does more than a SWAP of 2nd and a 3rd next year, walk away.

I'm hoping Marv's learning curve is over. He most likely had input is pre- GM trades but Polian and Butler made the final decisions. As GM, his handling of Clements was terrible. He tried to be a nice guy with character and lost out. He did show the world though that he was a man of his word and that is worth a lot. He learned that he must get something when a guy may be leaving. Buffalo will get no home town discount. Result: not so good On the LFB and TKO FA/ trades, he got what he could. On TKO, could go either way as to value but at least got something. TKO is a question mark we couldn't afford with all our needs so Marv got cap relief, a player, and rid of a QB that would have been released anyway. Result: still a question but leaning fair. On Willis, Marv got fair compensation considering WM didn't want to be there, had questionable characater issues, performance suffered because of his attitude and he was not a team guy. Result: Fair to good On the overpaying for FA's, I have posted before that as much as I love my home town, it will have to overpay to get/keep players there. He will hit on some ( Royal, Hargrove, Fowler) and miss some (Reyes, Gandy and Bowen) but thats the chance you take. Result: necessary to pay and take some chances. Now is Marv's most visable and difficult situation. Consensus is that Turner has a lot of upside and could be an able or exceptional player. The GM he is dealing with is a very good judge of talent, is a wise trader and is on the hot seat for losing much of the ccoaching staff last year. Knowing AJ's skills for getting talent ( I wanted him when Butler left) but his negotiating skills scare me. He picked the Giants pockets (Eli) and has built a talented team. He doesn't have to trade MT and will not give Marv anything, friend or not. He would still like to stick it to Ralph. Marv must consult with his staff on MT's talent, cost and impact on the draft and team. Establish a maximum worth for Turner and not go beyond it. If Marv can convince AJ it's a fair deal for both, it's a win win. If Marv gets fleeced, Marv will learn again what a real friend is and that fans and critics can be cruel. Marv, do your do diligence, consult your team staff to establish worth and don't do beyond it. I'm trusting Marv.

Same thing I was thinking Billsoverdue.

I was for a swap of 1st's because I thought that it would get the job done plus we get an extra player. Giving up a choice outright loses a player. The more I think of it, the more I think a swap of 2nd's is more like it. Marv can argue that T Jones went for a swap of 2's ( if I recall correctly) and ours is higher than the Jets. If AJ needs a little more, and I would work hard to not do so , give something 3 or lower next year. No outright choice or you lose a player. We need first day players THIS year. If AJ doesn't go for it, tell him to pound sand and either pick at 12 or move down.

Everyone keeps saying we have a lot of holes to fill. So we can essentially ADD a pick or player by swapping 1 st's with SD. Another poster ( cannot find who it was ) gave a scenario where with a swap, we get Turner, and #30, or 2 players for our one first. I know there is a point and quality differential of 720 points or what would be the 43rd pick but as we all know, it's a crap shoot. This swap would or should appease AJ ( a 1st and 720 points which equals a second) and we get an additional player who has experience and has all the physical and mental attributes to continue to excel in the NFL. If that isn't enough, screw him and stay at 12 or move down a few spots a pick up picks. Granted, Willis won't be there at 30 but Turner definently fills the RB void, we can then go bigtime on the LB, CB and other positions of need from #30 on. Point is, you got a player of need that is equal in value of Willis and don't lose a pick/player by giving a pick outright. I could live with Turner and Poz over just Willis in round #1. All other projections remain the same. The more picks we get or keep are players that can reduce our risk of missing on a player either through ability or injury. It all depends on if Marv wants to take his chances on who will be on the board, how much of a gamble Marv is willing to take that Turner will still be available and how much he likes Turner. Do we want quality (perceived and a gamble) or quantity ( in a perceived fairly strong draft and reduced risk)?

Didn't say interveiw only LB's or only CB's. Interveiw what is considered the top 10 or 15 like the Pats or other good teams do. Learn as much as possible is all I am saying. You may learn something that could help you avoid a huge mistake. If handled correctly, you give little info to others, maybe even mis-information to other teams and anything that reduces risk is a good thing. If some possible draftees are on the way in, as some say, I think it's doing your research.

interested in? Have we worked out any potential draftees as other teams have done? I know we scouted them, tested and interveiwed them at the combine but will they remain silent till draft day? I see on KFFL that all these teams are bringing guys in for workouts. Teams that are way down the board. Are we so sure with all the data already compiled that they would rather work on prioritizing the board than getting last minute info on a player. The bills did OK last year with better consensus and board building than last minute face to face meetings. Or are they waiting to be closer to the draft to do it? What do you think is the Bills thought process on this. Last miniute info vs not tipping their hand.

I too had the good fortune to see Cookie many times. He was brutal and I would not have liked to had to tackle him. I also saw Jim Brown and Cookie was a combination of him and Bettis. A fast, agile battering ram. You never had to worry when it was 4th and two. And correct, he had that nasty streak and would battle until he was piled on by more than one player. And , we won the Championship with him. God speed in overcoming the throat Cancer Cookie, Flbillsfan#1 as well as my friend Duggy going through the treatment now too.

Agree on what JSP said about the so called analysts. They are not going to give Bullalo respect because they do not work or follow them like we do. That said, I too feel we are getting better and as much as I have been a lttle down on Marv, ( cash to cap, not signing big names and coming across unknowledgeable in the press conference) I like what he has and is doing. He is a sly old fox and is smarter than he comes accross by design. He does not want to give away his plan and he does have one. All his moves are starting to make sense when you look at the big picture. Last Year he got rid of old and malcontented players. Had a good draft, Result:we improved. This year he finished the job with anyone too expensive or not wanting to be on the team. Result: Better team chemistry, improved weakness ( OL ) and have another year of system knowledge. Need a good draft and maybe another couple FA's. Last and very important, with a young, fast, team oriented group of improving experienced players, Marv will go into next year with a boatload of cash ( because of cash to cap) to get all the remaining pieces needed to get us into the playoffs or further. Result: Good team for many years Whether we get to the playoffs with this years schedule will depend on how we do the rest of this off season, still early. In Marv we trust!

Went through a couple majors in So Cal, 6.9 and 7.1 in addition to many 5+s and you never get used to them. The biggies did a lot of damage. Thats what you worry about, fire from gas lines or something collapseing or falling on you. Had a two story home and the 7.0 had that house swaying bigtime upstairs. Part of the reason I retired in Oregon.

Agree Mark. I posted the same thing about Rosencrook and everyone says it's his job. How about honoring what you sign. It's called integrity. If you want to renegotiate all the time, sign one year contracts. No one renegotiates money back to the team when the guy is a bust.

This reply got on the wrong topic. I was angry from the bull response from another poster. I resent your accusation. I am all for the chosen people and this has nothing to do with it. Could care less what his name or ethinicity is. Sounds a little like you think of the worst, talk about complex. I have always tried to be courtious and respectful on this board but bringing up items like that is disrespectful. As a born, raised ( in the city, not the outskirts ) and educated Buffaloian who has watched the Bills from the start, through the tough times and the good times and know a little about my home town Bills. Just because you post more doesn't mean people with less posts or out of town log in names is less knowledgeable or loyal. I'm OK with disagreement but don't call someone who thinks differently names or things you know nothing about. Show a little respect because I do and will continue to do so. I know what I will get from some but I would hope there is more class on this board. Thanks

I resent your accusation. I am all for the chosen people and this has nothing to do with it. Could care less what his name or ethinicity is. Sounds a little like you think of the worst, talk about complex. I have always tried to be courtious and respectful on this board but bringing up items like that is disrespectful. As a born, raised ( in the city, not the outskirts ) and educated Buffaloian who has watched the Bills from the start, through the tough times and the good times and know a little about my home town Bills. Just because you post more doesn't mean people with less posts or out of town log in names is less knowledgeable or loyal. I'm OK with disagreement but don't call someone who thinks differently names or things you know nothing about. Show a little respect because I do and will continue to do so. I know what I will get from some but I would hope there is more class on this board. Thanks