LaDairis

"Awhile back I got in this argument with LaDarius over the future of Geisinger. He says he went to Vanderbilt and watched him play for 4 years" True... That topic is pretty funny... Check out this from the Disease... "and then Anderson, who played RG with the Ravens (BTW notice that Jamal Lewis hasn't had a 100 yard rushing game this season, with the ONLY change to the O-line being Anderson, replaced with Steelers castoff Keydrick Vincent, who many were high on?). " translation: I cannot assess anything from watching, but I'm sure BIG=GOOD and have some "stat parroting" to "prove" it... "I still can't help but think that the Ravens losing Anderson (and replacing him with a guy many here wanted, Keydrick Vincent, formerly of the Steelers) is one of the big reasons that Jamal Lewis hasn't recorded a single 100 yard game this year" The Holcombs-Arm reminds Disease that Bennie just totally SUKKED on the field... "QUOTE(Holcombs_Arm @ Nov 3 2005, 12:53 AM) Even if Anderson is the road grader you make him out to be, his missed block caused that fumble, which basically cost the Bills the game. I wasn't making Anderson out to be anything, just wondering aloud if one had anything to do with the other. And I'm not satisfied with him being a road grader but a liability in pass protection." LMAO!!!

Precisely WHAT was "agressive(sic) & insulting" about my first post about Nance? The immediate response was that I had to search the web to come up with some college "stats" to "prove" my point... "You have any dropped-ball stats for Nance? Seems like a guy who catches 80+ balls wouldn't be dropping too many" translation: I don't accept your take on a player I've never seen but sure am eager to parrot about... continue... "Just would like to see some stats to back-up your claim" ... like, stats that do not exist, and hence since I cannot "back up" my claim, oh, my gosh, I'm guilty of DISPUTING Disease's PARROTING without having "guru parroting" myself!!!! "Off with his head!!!" cried the TALL=GOOD Taliban...

"All those feather heads did was to question your strong opinions that you put across in an agressive & insulting manner" Then to question the notion that TALL=GOOD and h+w+b+40=football skills is "agressive & insulting," almost like attending a Taliban meeting and criticizing Allah...

"The reason LaDumbass is being piled on is because he has brought nothing to the table in either of his 2 threads except childish name calling, and his refusal to discuss anything." What was LaDairis' first post?? Jun 2 2006, 07:53 AM "Nance went undrafted because he does not have good ball skills at all. The guy has bricks for hands (and so does the Jags leading dropper last year, Wilford). Nance does not adjust well to the ball. He does well if the ball is right to him (like it was when Big Ben was his QB). h+w+b+40 does not necessarily equal Randy Moss. Sometimes it equals Reggie Williams and Tyrone Calico... It is just unreal that anyone here thinks Wilford is good. Wilford makes one grab against us and he is just awesome... Against the Pats in the playoffs starting and playing the whole game, Wilford gets BLANKED... " And that was several examples of LaDairis challenging the sacred notion of TALL=GOOD. PARROTS, prepare to attack this infidel!!!

"what would you prefer a 6'4" Moss or a 5'4" Moss. The answer is pretty obvious" A better question might be which Moss you would rather have on your roster right now, Santana or Randy? I'd take the short one right now...

Folks and Fans, this is the "greater guru theory of parroting" to the letter: "I am quoting NFL coaches, if that is what you call "parroting" then I'll take such parroting as a far better source of information than anything you have come up with. Lets see.....who has a better notion of the importance of size for a WR, you or NFL coaches? You or actual NFL receivers? Who should we believe you or the professionals?" Those who have made their own observations which conflict with Mickey's "greater guru parroting" have no right to present such observations. Only "guru parroting" matters. What you think you saw doesn't matter unless you are a certified "guru." Jack Del Rio is a "certified" "guru" because he is an NFL head coach, never mind the fact that he has spent millions of dollars on FAs and two First Round picks on TALL=GOOD WRs and has very little to show for it. Del Rio was actually "right" all along BECAUSE he is a "guru" and hence Mickey can parrot him... and if you think Reggie Williams was a waste of a #9, you are wrong BECAUSE Jack Del Rio is a "guru" and TALL does equal GOOD even if you think, incorrectly, that Reggie Williams has been a healthy bust...

LOL!!! No, retard, what I've said over and over is that height is the most unimportant measure of a WR. Since height is all you understand about WR assessment, your confusion on the issue is understandable...

"Notice how he hasn't responded to all the "size is good" stuff I posted from coaches and players?" There is absolutely nothing to respond to. What you have done there is PARROTED. Your PARROTING there is absolutely blown out of the water by the reality of S. Moss, Mason, Smith etc., and yet because it is "guru parroting" you sit there with your beak up sure it is true. What is true is that NFL morons like Jack Del Rio of Jacksonville agree with your BIRDBRAIN that TALL=GOOD and waste a fortune on JJ Stokes Donald Hayes 04 #9 overall pick Reggie Williams 05 #22 overall pick Matt Jones and have very little to show for it except a flock of BAWKING MORONS incapable of assessing the obvious...

"Why would he bring LB's and Linemen into a thread specifically discussing the potential merits of a tall WR?" That's not what he posted. This is... Today, 01:22 PM "Why are WR's getting bigger in the NFL?" Nice try... "I'm not comprehending your crusade here" The only "crusade" I have here is about the right to post one's own opinion on a subject when such opinion conflicts with the "guru parroting" those who have never seen such player play insist must be true despite facts like this kid was at the Senior Bowl and went undrafted. I have the right to come here and post that I observed Martin Nance 1. drop or bobble 1 out of 4 or so 2. fail to adjust to the ball 3. demonstrate poor turning ability once up to top speed 3. take several strides and seconds to get to top speed If you think that "guru parroting" should so trump my right to post my take, then you are on the side I am crusading against... "Nance has the physical tools that are in line with the ideological prototype receiver in the NFL" Ah, ha, never seen him play either... And, by the way, which ideology are we talking aobut here? Dropadjustitarian?? Liberalparrotingism? Iamaparrotsoimneverwrongian? "Yes there are exceptions like Steve Smith who excel in spite of their physical stature" Yeah, just one. Every single other good WR in the NFL is TALL TALL TALL... and every single TALL TALL TALL WR is GOOD GOOD GOOD... "Now you are looking at a 6 inch advantage over Wilson" 6? http://www.buffalobills.com/team/roster.html 15 Wilson, George WR 6-0 210 17 Nance, Martin WR 6-3 212 Your girlfriend must think 10 inches is the length of the Chap Stick dispenser... Wilson is a quality football player, a tough kid who gets it done as a gunner and WR. You can fantasize all you want about that one play where adjustment doesn't matter, hands don't matter, just those 3 inches matter. That happens maybe twice a season. Those 20+ additional drops, bobbles, and failures to adjust to the ball will cost more...

"Please point out where I opined that 6-1 was tall for the 40 top college receivers invited to the NFL combine as opposed to 6-1 being tall for WR's period" LMAO!!! Like, OK, you meant Martian WRs... Got it. I was talking about Earth... Those green players are kinda short... There comes a point when it is clear that your opponent is so badly defeated, so desperate, so petty, and so dishonest that to continue the "debate" would just be an exercise in futility. Needless to say, Mickey is a classic little parrot who knows absolutely NOTHING about football except height, parroting, and how to weasel and slime when busted for lying...

"There are no short guys to draft? They are ony drafting the taller ones? hmmm...why would that be?" In your little world of lying, parroting and make believe, the NFL would be following your brilliant BIRDBRAIN's advice. Of course, Sinorice Moss went in Round 2 to the NYG, but he is short, so he must sukk according to you, just like his older brother sukks, right? In fact, two of the three tallest WRs at the Senior Bowl went undrafted... But facts have never stopped you from lying, parroting, and changing the subject...

"Why are WR's getting bigger in the NFL?" Why are QBs, DEs, TEs, and LBs getting bigger? DUHHHH.... A: roids, improved weight training, hormonal treatment etc.. Players in the NFL have been getting bigger for three plus decades. It is quite telling that your BIRDBRAIN only noticed that at the WR position...

Nice point, Ramius. Average height is the fact. The commentary is the parroting - the opinion of another that Mickey decided should be appropriated to form "his" "opinion." Parroting a fact is different from parroting an opinion, but you'd have to have at least a 40 IQ to comprehend that, which you don't...

"I could name you a couple hundred or so other guys that the Steelers didn't draft, I guess they all must suck under this "Steelers didn't draft him" theory of yours." Yeah, and you did a great job selectively parroting that but not parroting Big Ben's comments playing golf, which is what that addressed. You lie, you get busted lying and being wrong, and you go right on BAWKING...

"You do realize that the article you linked stands in complete opposition to the ridiculous point you don't have the guts to abandon, that height doesn't matter for WR's, don't you?" No, rather, that article PROVES that you were WRONG about 6'1" being "Tall" for an NFL WR, and that you are way too much of a PARROTING little chicken@@@@ to admit that... NFL players at all positions have been getting larger over the years. So what.

"Average height of bottom 25 WR's from 2005: 5-11 Of the top 25? 6'" LMAO!!!! And just how was this calculated? Could it be that some slot WRs are smaller and do PR and KR as well? And such slots only see the field with 3 or more WR packages? OOoops - asking an invalid parrot a serious football question - not a good idea... What is truly funny is that the 6' figure is more than an inch less than the average height of WRs at the last combine. SHORTER = BETTER??? LMAO!!! "All things being equal" only occurs in the peabrain of PARROTING MORONS incapable of admitting being WRONG. You were WRONG about 6'1" being "tall." You cannot explain JJ Stokes, Reggie Williams, and Fred Gibson, not to mention Steve Smith, Santana Moss, and Derrick Mason. The ONLY thing your BEAKED BIRDBRAIN is capable of is insisting that height is the be-all-and-end-all "measure" of WRs, and this is because YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT FOOTBALL EXCEPT HOW TO PARROT SOMEONE's HEIGHT...

"And buddy, count to ten, relax, you'll live longer" If you actually could count to ten, you might be able to answer the question as to why the Steelers would pass on such a "star" in the making, not just with the final non-compensatory pick in round 7, but also in UDFA... Ben: "Come on, coach, let's draft Martin" Cowher: "Shut up you moron. Go ride your bike without a helmet." YEAH, that must have been what happened...

"IIRC I read some of Ratburger's comments about Nance and he said that he tried to convince Cowher and FO to draft him. I think those comments were made on Jim Kelly's golf tournament." Well, then, BAWKEDY BAWK BAWK BAWK BAWK BAWK PARROTING=PROOF Thanks for explaining why the Steelers not only passed on Nance with pick 240, the final non-compensatory pick in round 7, but also did not outbid the Bills for Nance as an undrafted. Maybe Nance didn't want to play with Big Ben - LOL. Maybe there is some parroting from a caddy that you can BAWK to "prove" it...

Poor little Mickey gets busted for claiming 6'1" is "tall" when, in fact, it was BELOW AVERAGE for WRs at the combine. Will you admit being TOTALLY WRONG about that? Nope - parrots never admit being wrong... "Stop dancing around the question" This is just pathetic. Your question was answered above. Your BIRDBRAIN just doesn't like the answer... When will you stop dancing around my question about Reggie Williams, JJ Stokes, and Fred Gibson? "mickey" is completely obsessed with size. Size is the only thing that makes Moss and Fitz great players. Now, why did size not make JJ Stokes, Fred Gibson, and Reggie Williams great players? DUH!! Why are Steve Smith, Santana Moss, and Derrick Mason three of the NFL's best WRs? A: it is impossible for them to be so, because they are short and all Mickey's BIRDBRAIN can comprehend about the WR position is height...

"Hey, LaDarius, how do you think Nance got 81 catches last year?" 1. He faced low caliber defenses 2. The "RedskinHawks" threw a lot 3. Robinson and others WRs were good enough to prevent defenses from paying too much attention to Nance 4. Very few MAC corners were really good at man coverage, and hence the RedskinHawk offense faced a lot of zone "I'm pretty sure you don't think it was his height" Yeah, height was the be-all-and-end-all reason why... How about this: why don't you think the Steelers, with former teammate Big Ben the star starting QB, thought enough of Nance to spend their 7th, pick 240, the last non-compensatory pick in the Draft, on him? Height? Yeah, that MUST be it...

"However, does not their size, in addition to those other attributes, contribute to them being the dangerous receivers they are?" Santana Moss and Derrick Mason get open because their small size allows them to turn quicker than those defending them. Size is relative and worthless as a measure without other factors. "Lets see what they were saying about 6-1 WR's in the last two drafts" Ah, the ol' PARROTING=PROOF standard.... As for what a quick search finds for average WR height, well, I found this.... http://www.nfl.com/draft/analysis/expert/brandt/cb "Of the 40 receivers at this year's Scouting Combine, the average height was 6-foot-1 1/8 and the average weight was 205 pounds." ... and so it can be truly said, that, for this year's WR crop at the Combine, that a height of 6010 would have been SHORTER THAN AVERAGE... You "Height Parrots" are a seriously dedicated lot. It must be that most of you are really short and hence have always had some emotional complex about being short...

"Put another way, are Randy Moss and Larry Fitzgerald good WR's despite their size?" Both Moss and Fitz have exceptional ball skills: hands, adjustment etc. Fitz is more of a physical possession type who uses his body extremely well. Moss has great wheels and can, or could, separate against the best NFL corners. Nance has none of that, which is why Moss (despite big time character issues) and Fitz were high Firsts, while Nance went undrafted.

"is size something that can be of benefit to a WR?" Specifically height is the most overrated of all the measurements. WRs must be great athletes, because they are covered by great athletes. Just being tall means JACK if the other stuff is not there, like being fast out of breaks, adjusting to and catching the ball etc. More often than not, height is given ridiculously high value vs. other skills. Yeah, on specific plays, height can help. Feel better? Now tell us about Reggie Williams, Fred Gibson, and JJ Stokes... "It does explain why he was invited to the combine and finds himself on an NFL roster doesn't it, or did the Bills sign him despite his size?" That there is an inaccurate "guru consensus" before each modern NFL Draft is a fact. It is a fact that Nance was highly rated by that "guru consensus." It is a fact that Nance was expected to get drafted by the "guru consensus," especially after getting invited by NFL Scouts to the most prestigious all star game - the Senior Bowl. It is a fact that Nance did not get Drafted, not even by the team with his college QB - Pittsburgh, with the final non-compensatory pick in Round 7. Undrafteds reach deep beyond the Draft pool. Most teams sign at least twice as many undrafteds as they have Draft picks. If the Draft was still extended, that puts Nance anywhere between Rounds 8-20... "Your first post in this thread didn't mention anything about dropping balls or separation" And yet I get accused of being repetitive... That was my first post about Nance in the Wilford topic about Nance... "Here is what you said and if this is your idea of a "simple kind response" then your parents raised an even more ill-mannered lout than I thought" Most would find that post humorous and factual. If that post bothers you, it is BECAUSE it mocks the complete and total void in your head about understanding football beyond just h+w+b+40 and basic stat parroting... which was then completely verified by your suggestion that Nance be an up guy on the KR team...

"take a guy like Willie Parker. Backup running back from NC. His college coaches didn't even think enough of him to start at his program" That is precisely who the NFL tends to miss in the Draft, not the four year starter ALL MAC kid at the Senior Bowl... ... and also perhaps sheds some light on the credibility of the "coach knows best" theory as well... "last time I checked the only reason we're talking about this guy is that he is showing something in an NFL CAMP, against NFL TALENT" No, we started talking about Nance initially because someone suggested he could be our "Ernest Wilford," which led another question: Do we want an Ernest Wilford, given that the Pats shut out Wilford in his last game, not to mention the fact that Wilford led the NFL in drops by a wide margin? As for camp reports, we have heard them before. George Wilson, for example. Now, George is a fine football player, but he is limited. He is not overly fast and does not have great hands. My initial post in this topic asked the question: What does Nance have over Wilson? Clearly, the only answer given so far is height, and I laugh at that... Hands: Wilson Wheels: Wilson Blocking: close to even, as Wilson is a fine blocker Separation and route running: Wilson Height: Nance Ability to effectively play STs: Wilson

"Chad Johnson 6-1 Larry Fitzgerald 6-3 Anquan Boldin 6-1 Plaxico Burress 6-5 Eddie Kennison 6-1 Antonio Gates 6-5 Jimmy Smith 6-1 Antonio Bryant 6-2 Randy Moss 6-4 Houshmandzazdeh 6-1 Jerry Porter 6-2" Only four of those you listed are 6'3" or taller, and Gates is a TE. 6'1" is George Wilson's height. And the whole point of pimping Nance over Wilson is to get those precious extra three inches that make all the difference in the universe to you. Stretching the definition of a "tall WR" down to 6'1" is stoopin quite low. WRs have other things besides h+w+b+40 that determines their success, but those things, such as turning ability, separation, adjustment to the ball, hands etc. - whew, those get zero value from you. Try a few of these on for "size" Fred Gibson Reggie Williams JJ Stokes Bryant Johnson ZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz............