Dr. Who

It's some kind of weird, mutant Stockholm Syndrome where fans become defenders of the habitual bad strategy of plugging holes and deferring on qb.

OTOH, Rudolph and Allen are not Dalton and RG3. No one knows for sure how they will end up and in reality, a career is dictated by good or bad fortune as much as innate ability and work ethic. Going to the right team with the right system for you, good coaching, surrounding talent, staying healthy, etc. will play a significant role in whether one has a successful career. However, natural talent will determine the limits of one's potential. Imo, Rudolph's ceiling is Dalton. I don't think Beane and Co. are aiming for an average qb. In retrospect, a bust is a bust, but Allen has the potential to be very good. If evaluators at OBD see a rational path to developing his talent and think he has the intelligence, character, and temperament to be a franchise qb, they should prefer him to any mediocre talent.

As opposed to Rudolph? Not much boom there.

Any idea why? Rule changes, player development at the college level, just not enough big guys with requisite athleticism? Is there something about this era of football that makes it harder to find o-lineman?

My computer glitched. Sorry about the double post. Fixed it. I am relaying the evaluations I read on the board by folks who seem insightful to me. I personally don't know about Bodine and Newhouse. I am pretty confident Ducasse isn't any good. I am sorta hoping Miller rebounds. If it was a system fit problem, maybe we will find a way to maximize his potential with the new OC.

Getting tired of these folks who keep claiming those who want a qb believe you don't need a team around him or that just getting the qb means instant Super Bowl contender. Setting up straw men no one advocates for is pretty pointless.

The only thing I can imagine is if Browns think the Giants want the player and could switch places and pick up an extra pick. Unlikely, of course.

Ducasse is servicable is a generous grade. I think Bodine is maybe a C minus starter. Folks on these boards who seem informed were opining that Newhouse is terrible. I am hoping, based on not much, that Connor McDermott will be a step up at RT. Definitely need a few fairly early draft picks devoted to oline. It would help if we can get the qb in the 6 to 10 range and keep most of our draft picks.

Literally no one says this.

It's a rhetorical ploy by a poster who is adamantly against trading up for a qb.

For Josh Allen, I know

So much smoke nowadays, I really don't know what is credible and what is not. Unlike most, I actually like all the top four, though Allen is the highest risk. My current best hope is Rosen falls for largely non-football reasons and we get a very good qb. Not at all keen on Rudolph, though I will root for whoever we choose to do well.

This does make sense. What also makes sense is the Bills were prepared for Incognito to reject the take it or leave it offer, so I don't think they are suddenly thrown for a loop and radically changing their plans. No doubt they already had contingency plans if a mid-thirties guard decided enough already.

I think the fella is kinda emo and his father is a bad influence.

If this is all true, Bills could stick at 12 and take Rosen or Allen.

I agree with you on this. My main concern with Jackson is that he seems slight to me and I fear he will be hurt like RG3, though perhaps he is more durable and I am being irrational on that point. Even if it is not dispositive, I'd prefer his Wunderlic was higher than 13.

I can't get a read on ths FO. Some folks think the want a big, pocket passer. That's not Jackson. It's not Mayfield, either. I don't see how the Mike Vick comparison is patently false. Good Mike Vick is pretty darn good, btw. I like in varying degrees all of the top five with some reservation on all of them. I'm not keen on Rudolph, so if they miss on the top four, I'd rather take a chance on Jackson. That's a very interesting speculation. I'm not an expert, but I personally like the four top qbs, then the top non-qbs are Chubb, Barkley, Nelson, Edmunds, Smith, Fitzpatrick, and Ward, imo. 10 and 12 might get you two of those fellas. I think 2 might be available for 10 and 12, but I dunno really.

That's all true and it ought to be rather obvious. Still, franchise qb is harder to find than very good receiver. A really good (top 3) qb can elevate the play of an average wr. Qb at top of the draft may have a 50% bust rate as risk-averse individuals are fond of pointing out, but it's far higher later on in the draft. Really good qbs are rare, but one shouldn't use that or the dependency of the position (inherent in any team game) as a rationale for not taking a shot when you have one.

Vander Eshe is a one year fella. Might be good, but I'd rather take that chance at 22. If Beane allows Cards to jump him and get Mayfield, it will be a huge fail. Much more likely we make that move.

How far is Brown likely to fall on the basis of a disastrous Combine and, I gather, mediocre pro day?

Lot of NFL players think Jackson will be good. Lots of NFL D coaches don't want him in their division. I am not certain he will reach his potential. Maybe he'll bust, but there must be something genuine about his ability for current players and coaches to speak highly of him. I think he could be good Mike Vick at best. He does need time. Not my first or second choice, but I think he's less of a project than you surmise.

If they select him, I will root for him to be excellent. Until they do, I am opposed to the pick. I don't see the steal those of you who like him do.

Jackson is not ultra-cautious with game manager as a ceiling, so as you say, not TT 2.0.

Debate has its limits. At some point, you just have to let folks go their way.

The OP specifies moving up in the 6 to 8 range for Mayfield, so there's that.