Bill from NYC

He only played a few games for us but in 1998 or so, the Bills signed a linebacker Wayne Simmons. From as far back as his college days, he was accused of DUI, a slew of assaults (some against women), and forcible rape. He died at a fairly young age in a car accident. I remember being a bit shocked when they signed him.

It's not a deal I would jump on, but it (imo) is proof that many fans place more value on our players than they are actually worth. The new CBA made draft picks cost pennies. The rule changes made it a QB driven league. These are facts that are beyond dispute.

So would I but you know.....they were supposedly offered a 5th for Spiller. I can't imagine a team giving up a 3rd for Stevie given his contract, let alone the fact that this draft is said to be absolutely stacked at the WR position. Rookies make next to nothing with the new CBA. The more I think about it, the more it seems to me that SJ has little to no trade value.

It's bad because early draft picks are the best resource an NFL team has. You should never, ever build your team around the secondary, or for that matter running backs. This is historically what the Bills do, and it has resulted in losing football games.

How many players in recent years have fetched a first round pick via a trade?

The post with his cap hit is telling CB. His cap numbers are higher than those of Wes Welker. http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9048556/wes-welker-agrees-terms-denver-broncos I know that Stevie has talent. I appreciate his ability to get open. But compared to other posts that I read, I think that I tend to place less value on current players (with mileage and prior injuries), and more value on draft choices. In other words, if I was the GM and a team wanted to trade up, I would demand that they pay through the nose, or no deal. Wrt to SJ, there are several factors to be considered: 1) Woods might already be a better wr than SJ. I am not saying that he is, but it wouldn't surprise me. 2) Again, we don't know, but Williams might be something special. 3) This draft is said to be absolutely STACKED at WR. Gil Brandt says this over and over. Coach Gruden was raving about a wr from Oregon State. He stopped just short of depicting his as great, and I never even heard of him. 4) #3 is tricky. It would seem to make Stevie more expendable, but it might also serve to diminish his trade value. Bottom line? Stevie is a good but not great player. If a team was willing to cough up a 3rd round pick, AND the Bills think it would it would be easy to replace him, I wouldn't object to a trade. Would you?

Agreed, and he isn't worth anything close to a second round pick. They would be lucky (imo) to get a 4th. And btw I am not calling for a trade but if it happens, I have a feeling that the Bills will somehow recover from this staggering loss. I know I will.

Promo, I once posted that I thought Rob Johnson would be a great quarterback. Then, I changed my mind. Once you posted that Alex Van Pelt should start for the Bills. Do you still think this? What is the big freaking deal?

C'mon CB. Everything helps. Did you call for patience in another thread or was that someone else? Fluker did as much and more as one would have a right to expect from a rookie OT. If he stays healthy, he will only get better. If Fluker was the RT for the Bills, Spiller might even be able to pick up a first down on 3rd and 2. I mean.....it's possible.

DJ Fluker. He was a #11. His qb had a much better season, they ran better, and the team made the playoffs. Next question?

Gotcha. I for one hope that the Bills select a qb early if they strongly feel that they have a good one available. And thank you. Do accept my best wishes for a happy Easter to you and your loved ones.

Well as we know, there were no qbs off the board at #8. We also know for sure that the Bills were going to draft one. This was a given after the famous phone conversation. He gambled and still got the player he wanted, so this was smart. In term of his post draft statements, it would not have been appropriate for him to say that he had for instance Geno Smith rated about the same as EJ. In any event, it's hard for me to picture a scenario in which the team which was desperate for a qb, had their target sitting right there, and traded down 8 spots. Unless of course they had a solid Plan B. Jmo.

Great point. And count me as one who thinks that if the Bills draft an OT, the coaches should place him wherever they choose. This stuff about upsetting Glenn or hurting his feelings is a bit nauseating.

I love conversations like this and I am NOT trying to argue nor split hairs. But my question is how good do you think Murray will be? I ask because I think that if the Bills see a player who they seriously believe will be GOOD (doesn't have to be great),I think they should draft him very early. If they think he will be top 10, then its a no brainer. At this point, I would be content with a QB in the caliber of Schaub or Hasselbeck in their respective primes. This is because my goals are not lofty at this point. I want a superbowl win as much as anyone but right now, I want the Bills to make the gdmf playoffs. Does EJ have potential? Sure. But until I see otherwise (fingers crossed), I see a qb who is suited for a read option offense with bad knees. If they take another QB and he is good, all the better. Both of the QBs mentioned above fetched a lot in trades years ago and took their teams to the playoffs. The Bills need, especially with all that is happening, to make the playoffs. I can't stress this enough. Jmo.

I agree. Players such as Mario line up all over the place as well.

That's funny. And it means that when they are free agents they are worth 4x their weight in gold. And not all of them (Cutler, Stafford, etc.) are what I would consider to be great.

I don't fully understand what you mean here. I suppose what I am missing is just how much you like Murray. In other words, if I was GM and absolutely sold on a QB, I would draft him first, and concern myself little with what "experts" think. I have said this before.....if the Bills were all in on EJ last season, they would not have traded back. I really believe this, and think that they had another QB that they rated equal or close to him. My point is that if the Bills professional football people think they have a better prospect than EJ available when they draft, they should select him. QBs have huge value. They win football games in this modern NFL. And they are worth their weight in gold.

Congrats my dear friend! I am OK with what the Bills have done so far in this off season (other than losing Pettine), how about you? PS: Phil told me how great Pettine would be as a DC, and is a friendly Jet fan.

It already happened. He will be (or already is) the next Gale Sayers.

He sure is. The only player who was ever better in NFL history was Gale Sayers, and not by much.

I am very sorry for your loss.

He needs to show me a consistent body of work before I would label him "really good." And I think that I am being quite reasonable.

I know what you mean but you would find this on any message board for any team. I think that it's a reflex. These comparisons in themselves are not an indictment of racism and unless you know the individual poster, it's unfair to cast those types of aspersions. Back to EJ: I don't think that he is or ever will be a pure passer. I think that he can succeed in this league, but I doubt if he will unless he utilizes his ability to run it himself. This would soften defenses and help him develop. And as others have said, if the Bills see a QB they really like they should draft him. If EJ is good he will keep his job. If not, we will need another QB.

Agreed that pass rushers are always a need but I do wonder what Gilmore has done that is good enough for you to want to pay him huge dollars.

I was thrilled when they drafted Levitre. The truth is, I wanted them to select him with the pick in which they took Wood. When they passed on him I was sure he would be gone. Apparently so were the Bills because they traded up to take him in round 2. AL stepped in from day one and did a very good job for this football team. And btw, looking at the situation in Cleveland (26 million guaranteed for a Center), his contract doesn't look so bad now, does it? The Bills OL with Levitre and a first round OT (providing he is a good one) might have been actually GREAT.